Venezuela, Chavez, Castro and a revolution

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Painfully long. ..., posted by OkieMan on Feb 16, 2005

Russia does have free speech and elections, at least as good as in most western countries.

Putin did launch an attack against the hard-core pro-western elite that profited from the policies of the imbecile president that got in power after the communist regime fell.  They have lost virtually all credibility with people inside the country, so they try to blackmail the government by running around western media saying that supposedly Putin is 'anti-democratic'.  In fact, their part won less than 5% of the popular vote (instead of 80% in 1990), so they are somewhat upset.

I do not agree with all of his policies, but he is undoubtedly the best president Russia had since the 60s, imho.

[thunderbolt]

... in response to Re: Painfully long.  You've been warned, posted by kented on Feb 15, 2005

Allende I believe was assasinated by the Chileans...

Re Pinochet, he is an evil nasty person.  And he did assasinate political opponents.

However, Allende's regime was leading the country into a civil war, which would have resulted in a lot more death and destruction, and the Allende's side was destined to lose in it anyway.  Further, this civil war could have resulted in a lot more mess; Soviet navy were several days away from Chile at the time.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Painfully long.  You've been war..., posted by thunderbolt on Feb 15, 2005

I know that I helped to open this can of worms about the LA dictators, etc.  but, while we are on the subject of Chile; who's idea was it to build up the market to export produce?  By now, I am sure everyone has eaten or at least heard of stuff like Chilean grapes.  Actually, they export many types of produce, but my point is that this type of thing is a good thing, not a bad thing (for a change)!

                            OkieMan

[jim c]

... in response to Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and a re..., posted by kented on Feb 14, 2005

There are some that are trained to disbelieve the good intentions of our government. Due to my age and experience ( military and Law enforcement ) I tend to accept what I believe to be in the best interest of my country. My behavior is based on the understanding that sometimes if you  shut your mouth and do what you are told it often leads to teamwork verses disruption.  I often believe the people who came out of the sixties and seventies just never wanted to do what mommy  told them to and constanly protested until mom gave up and resorted to bribery.
   I have been in Cuba five times (illegally I may add) so I am not a blind follower. What is in store for Venezuela is a case of the ignorant following the ignorant. If the people of Venezuela  saw what became of Cuba they would kill Chavez in  heartbeat.Check this out!
 
Top Stories - U.S. News & World Report
Cracking down on Caracas

Wed Feb 9, 4:59 PM ET  

By Mortimer B. Zuckerman

While we have our eyes on the Middle East and the recent good news out of there, a danger to democracy is brewing right here in our backyard. Venezuela, long one of Latin America's strongest democracies, is now under siege by its president, Hugo Chavez. Thanks to an ill-judged intervention by former President Jimmy Carter, Chavez narrowly survived a recall election and has now accelerated his subversion of Venezuela's democracy by a scummy deal with Fidel Castro

According to Miami's El Nuevo Herald, Chavez has granted Cuban judicial and security forces extensive police powers within Venezuela. Cubans are already running the intelligence services and indoctrinating and training the military. They will effectively bypass what is left of Venezuela's judicial system when they exercise new powers to investigate, seize, detain, and interrogate Venezuelans and Cubans living in Venezuela, with the right to extradite them to Cuba and try them there. This threatens the safety of some 30,000 Cubans in Venezuela.

All this is a culmination of Chavez's frontal attack on civil society, reducing state institutions to mere shadows with only ceremonial powers. Just for starters, Chavez has rewritten Venezuela's Constitution to enhance his powers, purged critics in the military, set up legislation to pack the Supreme Court, intimidated the media by threatening the expropriation of the licenses of private television stations that supported the opposition, and given succor to thousands of Castro's military and intelligence officers, along with many social and medical workers, while tens of thousands of young Venezuelans have been sent to Cuba for indoctrination.

Spots and pans. Chavez, in turn, provides Castro with 80,000 barrels a day of essential oil. Venezuela's rich flow of oil revenues has enabled Chavez to buy the support of sectors of Venezuelan society and assert himself as the leader of what he calls a "jihad" against American imperialism. Chavez's sense of moral justice is manifest in his alliance with the worst criminal organizations in Latin America, especially the narcoterrorists in Colombia. Just recently, he denounced Colombian authorities because they arrested a senior member of the narcoterrorist Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) who had been given sanctuary in Venezuela.

To get a sense of the degree to which Chavez is intimidating his opponents and harassing dissidents, just read the language of a new criminal law that he pushed through the legislature: "Any individual who creates panic in the community or makes it restless by disseminating false information via print media, radio, TV, phone, electronic mail, or pamphlets will be punished with two to five years in prison." Even the most popular form of political protest, banging pots and pans, done in the presence of members of his government, now carries with it up to a three-month jail sentence.

A distinguished international coalition, including former Czech President Vaclav Havel, Sen. John McCain and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright wrote to Chavez expressing concern that his actions are "a grave threat to democracy."

Alas, our own President Carter compromised the hopes of Venezuelans in the recall election by prematurely endorsing the vote that Chavez did not earn or deserve. Carter's people counted fewer than 1 percent of the polling stations, which, instead of being selected at random, as originally anticipated, were selected by Venezuelan officials. Even then, only 76 of the previously agreed 192 ballot boxes were counted, with either opposition witnesses or international observers present at only 26 out of the 76 boxes reviewed. The Chavez-controlled National Electoral Council (CNE) forbade access to the tallying centers, not only to Carter's people but to the representatives of the opposition, and even to the two members of the CNE who opposed Chavez. Two professors from Harvard and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology  issued a report concluding that there was at least a 99 percent chance the election was a fraud. The audited sample (Carter's) was simply not a random sample, the professors concluded. Various independent exit polls showed that Chavez had lost the vote by 59 percent to 41 percent, instead of Chavez's contention that he had won by that margin.

Jimmy Carter, in effect, provided a seal of approval for a left-wing demagogue intent on destroying democracy in Venezuela even as he seeks to extend his ideology to other parts of Latin America. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites) was correct when she pointed out that Chavez is a danger not just to Venezuela but to much of Latin America. Very soon, we must translate those wise words into an effective policy.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and ..., posted by jim c on Feb 14, 2005

God save us from well meaning FOOLS like Jimmy Carter.Nice guy.Totally f--king useless.Worse than that,counterproductive.As he was as president.

Pete

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and a re..., posted by kented on Feb 14, 2005

Kented,
Good post.  You made some valid points.  Mainly, I was just expressing my frustration.  I certainly understand that there are no simple solutions. However, maybe I could become a highly paid assassin and take out a dictator or two every year or so.  You know, for the money and just for the heck of it.  Then, when I retire, I could write a tell all book and go on the Oprah show.  Sounds like a plan, doesn't it? ha

                        OkieMa

[kented]

... in response to Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and ..., posted by OkieMan on Feb 14, 2005

The problems in third world countries are enormous and virtually insurmountable.  

How will Colombia solve its drug problem and the government's lack of control of the country when drug money is the only real source of wealth in the country?

Costa Rica's national priority is education and teching English so that they can attract world businesses.  And they compete with third world countries all over the world who sacrific the welfare of their children and their environment for a small piece of the first world's prosperity.

There are indeed no easy solutions and few LA governments are paradigns of virtue.  We are indeed lucky to live in the US.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and a re..., posted by kented on Feb 14, 2005

Lets see,I guess I should agree first.It seems we had at least a very big hand in getting Allende out of power and killed in the process.Sometimes I long for the good old days and think that would be a good Chavez solution.I respect the power off a free press more than a lot of people I know and think we would get in big international trouble for doing that now.And its unfortunate that Allende was followed by Pinochet,who was much worse human rights wise.Even though its taken many years to procesecute him he wasn't in power most of that time.And Argentina was arguably worse in their persecution of leftists.
All of this of course gives old dinosaurs like Castro ammunition about how awfull the US is.An argument with some truth sells better than absolute lies.
So I guess we need to let Venizuella suffer under Chavez untill  someone local takes him out.I am actually surprised that the you are poor because someone took it from you argument doesn't sell better than it does in other latin countries.Simple minded arguments work with simple minded people.The problem is the leftist solution is so much worse.Look at Cuba,lose your freedom to make $12 a month while the dictator is king of his own little island and has 5,000,000,000 in the bank.
As far as Iraq,I am a little tired of this no weapons of mass distruction argument.Just about everybody agrees they had them.And Saddam Housein was a guy that needed to go in the worst way,we did humanity a real favor there.But we get a bunch of Muslim nuts fighting over the country as a result.Yes the losers don't like it and will cause as much trouble as the can.I think the majority approves of the new democratic process.
Sometimes In am very disapointed in the lack of guts and heroism in people that knock what we did there. It was and is a NOBLE effort,worthy of a great country.I particularly like Tony Blair,who took a position counter to his own party solely because he thought it THE RIGHT THING TO DO,to his considerable political disfavor.Now there is a HERO,in my opinion.
Reminds me very much of the anti war sentiment in the US prior to WW2.These people were willing to look the other way while Hitler tried to take over the world.Not our problem.Well the world is too small now to think its not our problem.
But,back to agreement,it pisses me off when the power of the US government is used for financial gain by US companies.
We need a MORE heroic president,someone with the guts not only to take on the terrorists but to take on US SPECIAL INTERESTS that have so much power in out international relations.I nominate John McCain.

Pete

[Heat]

... in response to Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and ..., posted by Pete E on Feb 14, 2005

Sometimes In am very disapointed in the lack of guts and heroism in people that knock what we did there. It was and is a NOBLE effort,worthy of a great country.I particularly like Tony Blair,who took a position counter to his own party solely because he thought it THE RIGHT THING TO DO,to his considerable political disfavor.Now there is a HERO,in my opinion.""

Outstanding post.!!

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  ..., posted by Heat on Feb 14, 2005

Heat,
Absolutely correct.  Tony Blair is to be commended for what he did, and is still doing.  Unfortunately, it will probably cost him his job.  By the way, I lived in England for two years. (78-80).  I was in the Air Force.  Anyhow, it was very interesting and I grew to love and appreciate many of the people there. I even got to play in a British country music band for most of my time there.  But, when I got there, the Labor Party had been in control for many years.  Needless to say, socialism abounded.  However, the great part of it was that I was there when Maggie Thatcher was elected Prime Minister. Now there was a strong leader!  She really did an excellent job.  I came back to the States just in time to help get Ronald Reagan elected as President.  Another proud moment.
                            OkieMan

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  and ..., posted by Pete E on Feb 14, 2005

Pete,
You mentioned pre-WWII.  Good old Neveille Chamberlain.  Now that's my idea of a totally worthless, numb nuts politician!  But, thank the Lord that Winston Churchill came in when he did.  Anyhow, you also made some good points about that stupid "We didn't find Weapons of Mass Destruction"!  I am so sick of that crap.  Of course, they didn't find the stuff.  Good ole Saddam was given so much advance notice that we were coming to get him, he had the stuff shipped to Syria, or some similarly "looney tune" place.  My son was fighting the war on the Iraqi/Syrian border.  They were coming over in droves,and my son and his buddies were getting hit hard; not only by the insurgents coming over the border, but by the Iraqi citizens that were supposed to be helping them find the bad guys.  I got that straight from my son.  In one case, they finally found out who the dirt bag was and killed him.  He was the "captain" of the Iraqi forces that were supposed to helping.  With friends like that, who needs enemies!  By the way, Pete; I want to ask you something.  The girl I am writing to in Cali told me her neighborhood is named Salomia. It is in the northern part of the city.  I know that there some neighborhoods, or barrios that are not safe for gringos to go into.  I cannot make the trip right now, but I am trying to come see her soon.  Are you familiar with this neighborhood?  If not you, then maybe someone else can shed some light on this.  She seems to be a sharp lady, and I really want to get something going with her.  I will be staying at Latin-Internet when I arrive.  But, somewhere along the way, I would probably want to see her apartment.  Also, if I undersand correctly, you rent rooms at your place.  Since you are closer to where she lives, maybe I can set something up with you?  I will let you know for sure when I will be travelling there.  As it looks now, I will not be able to come until school is out for the summer.  If for some reason I can make it sooner, I will let you know.  Anyhow, please get back with me on this girl's neighborhood; that is if you are familiar with it.

                          OkieMan

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  ..., posted by OkieMan on Feb 14, 2005

Adrian says Salomia is a strata 3,not too bad or dangerous.Basically 1's you never go to,2's only during the day and try to avoid that.3's starting to get better,not so dangerous.4-6,various levels of good,6 being the best.But even with a 6  its possible to get in trouble walking alone at night,but not likely.

Pete

[OkieMan]

... in response to Salomia, posted by Pete E on Feb 15, 2005


Pete,
Thanks, I will stay in touch for future developments.  Hopefully, you and I can meet in person and visit a little while.  But, my main priority is to get down there and see this little lady.  She is something.  Later.

                               OkieMan

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Castro  ..., posted by OkieMan on Feb 14, 2005

I looked up Salomia on the map.I am not familiar with it ,but from the location I would say not a great barrio,how bad I do not know.But thats sort of typical for most of Cali.I will ask my Colombian Friend tommorow.Its kind of northeast,not too far from Calima.Probably a strata 2 or  3.Part of the safety issue is how much you look like a gringo.
Yeah I rent rooms,so if you want to stay here let me know.You can check in at Latin Internet then come by a see my place.I am closer to that Barrio than Latin Internet,which is way south.

Pete

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re:  Venezuela, Chavez, Cast..., posted by Pete E on Feb 14, 2005

Pete,
Thanks for answering.  Any info you can find out would be helpful.  I at a slight disadvantage at this point, in that I have not actually met this girl yet.  So, I have to be cautious, but she is really beautiful and we are having a lot of fun writing emails to each other right now.  When I know my plans more, I will let you know.  In the meantime, whatever info you can give me on that neighborhood, would be appreciated.  From what she has told me, she has a married sister who also lives in that neighborhood.  However, my chica lives alone.  She is 35, divorced, and her only son is 19.  He was living with her until recently; but as I have been told, he now lives with his father over 30 minutes away.  Pete, I also need to find out how much you charge to rent a room? Later. If you want to write me a private email, send it to kerby@olp.net.

                             OkieMan