Sorry for being late to this one...

[soltero]

...but I would like to add my two cents to the thread on hitting women, and what a guy should expect in his home. I don't agree with hitting women at all, but that is a personal choice. I have never hit a woman and I know that I never will. Not to say there aren't women that don't deserve to get hit, it just won't be me. I feel that if a woman makes me upset enough with her to hit her, then it is best to leave her alone. For good. I don't want anything else to do with her. It takes a lot to make me upset enough to hit anyone as I don't take violence lightly. To say that there aren't women (or people period) who don't deserve it though, is just being politically correct and unreal. I doubt there is anyone here who can't say at one point in their lives, they didn't want to punch some idiot honey in the jaw. What seperates the men from the boys is the follow through. Now as far as all the Bible thumping, you can use the Bible to promote anything imaginable. There is something there good and bad for everyone to warp in whatever manner they please. The only thing in the Bible that is clear, straightforward, and unmistakable are the 10 subjects that the rest of the book centers on. There are not too many ways to twist those around as they are not too open to debate or interpretation and pretty concise. I doubt the Bible would have been as popular if it had just those ten lines, though. I have also bought into the bs of wanting an equal, even though there is no such thing. Nothing is ever equal in any relationship whether it is between parent and child, siblings, or husband and wife. Any one who says that they want their wife to be their equal in the home is just spouting the brainwashing that you have been force fed to add just another tidbit of difficulty into your already stressful American life. You have to come to a decision. Who is going to have the final say? Someone has to. Either it will be you or it will be her. How many of you "equal" preachers are going to truthfully say it will be her? How many times have you actually solved anything where either one or the other did not have to make the final decision? Do you split every purchase 50/50? Someone has to say how things will proceed, whether you appear to agree or not. Is that you or your wife? I am sorry, but in my house, that would have to be me. If you don't believe anything else, believe this, if your woman is truly your woman, this will never come up because she will want to be a woman to you, and that means letting you be a man. Don't forget what that means, and don't fall into the trap of equating being a man with being some dumba** that has to hit his woman to get her to act "right". If she is really with you, she will, and if she isn't, walk away. Trust me, eventually, she will meet up with someone less civilized.

[Brandon2253]

... in response to Sorry for being late to this one..., posted by soltero on Feb 3, 2005

I disagree a bit Soltero.  While I understand what you are saying with the leadership aspect, Im not sure that is exactly what women, IMHO are looking for. Yes, they look for a strong willed man, that doesnt take orders constantly (at least the good women look for this).  FYI, I have plenty of leadership experience, and have studied the art of leadership comprehensively.  Im not so sure it is necessary for a man to lead his wife, in the general sense of the term.  I think the best leadership a husband can offer is more comparative to that of a moderator; he puts ease to difficult situation and works towards compromise.  Compromise is key.  As far as domestic violence goes, this reflects a complete lack of character, intelligence, and in my opinion the guy should be castrated.  If a guy is to this point with a woman, he is with the wrong woman and should leave her, not beat her.  For all you "man should lead wife" type; fear (which you would be instilling by physical reprimand) is the most destructive form of leadership and is only a temporary "solution" (or lack therof).  Just my two sense, not trying to step on anyone's toes.

dontbeatyourwife-ly,
Brandon

[soltero]

... in response to Re: Sorry for being late to this one..., posted by Brandon2253 on Feb 4, 2005

[This message has been edited by soltero]

Brandon, with all due respect, if I remember correctly, you are 18 or 19 years old. When I was 18, I had already done two years in the Army and had been an NCO for a year, so I have a little understanding of leadership as well. I am 38 now, and I haven't been sitting on my hands since then, so I think that I might have a little more actual experience than your "plenty". Not trying to discount what you have, just want you to put it in perspective. Bottom line is in any situation (and you can argue this until whenever), it eventually all boils down to one person. Forget all the "what people want" bs...In reality, someone has the final say. Will that be you or her? Answer that question now, and then answer it again 20 years from now.Every unit has someone who is held responsible. If that person is you, then you better well lead. If you want that person to be your wife, then more power to you, but understand that it will be one or the other and not both. Many of the problems that we now have in marriage today come from the ambiguity of the domestic roles. It is very simple and I don't see why people allow themselves to be removed from what is natural because someone else tells them it is the way to be when anyone with eyes can see that it isn't working.

[Brandon2253]

... in response to and..., posted by soltero on Feb 4, 2005

So you were in the army at age 16? Hmmmmmm.  Yes I do have military experience.

[soltero]

... in response to Re: and..., posted by Brandon2253 on Feb 4, 2005

[This message has been edited by soltero]

Yes, my parent's had to sign a waiver for me to be able to go. I graduated highschool a little early and didn't want to wait so I asked them to do that for me. I was 5'10 180lbs and maxed out the ASVAB. My recruiter was going to make sure he did whatever he could to get me in (lol)...

[Brandon2253]

... in response to Re: Re: and..., posted by soltero on Feb 4, 2005

yeah, i maxed out the ASVAB also.....what a joke, that test was like grade school stuff.  It amazing to think many people in our army can barely pass that thing.  I attended military school for two years and was accepted at the Air Force Academyl, but decided against it (still am happy with my decision)  Anyways, I respect your input.

Brandon

[soltero]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: and..., posted by Brandon2253 on Feb 5, 2005

Thanks, I respect yours as well (especially since you beat my SAT by 200 points) (smile)...but in my defense, I was out partying the night before and slept through 30 minutes of the math (lol)...that's the main reason I went into the military...I knew I didn't have the discipline to go straight to college...after spending my military time, I was more than happy to study again...

[soltero]

... in response to Re: Sorry for being late to this one..., posted by Brandon2253 on Feb 4, 2005

I am not sure what you are disagreeing with. It seems that our points are pretty much in line. As far as the leaving, I said "woman", not "wife"..by the time she is your wife, you should be past that point IMO. Also, I didn't say the husband should lead. I was referring to who has the final say. Up until the decisions are made, everything is free to discourse. Who will make the decisions for you? This isn't hard or unnatural. Any man who answers that someone else will make his decisions, regardless of political correctness has given up his pair.

[Brandon2253]

... in response to Re: Re: Sorry for being late to this one..., posted by soltero on Feb 4, 2005

The final say issue....
I subscribe to the belief of give and take.  If my girlfriend is adament about something, I dont mind letting a decision go her way, because I know that when I am the same on something, she will do it for me.  As far as when we are both adament in oppisition...I can see your point, someone has to have final say.  I think I was misunderstanding you a bit, it seemed to me as if you meant that the guy should always have things go the way he wants.

[soltero]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Sorry for being late to this..., posted by Brandon2253 on Feb 4, 2005

That is exactly what I am saying. I am not trying to thump my chest here. Some things regardless of society's current views have to be maintained or you have the beginnings of anarchy. I don't expect anyone to do everything I say, especially not the woman I marry, because I am not looking for a servant, but a partner. That doesn't mean that I don't plan on being the senior partner so to speak. There has to be a hierarchy or there is only confusion.

" I dont mind letting a decision go her way"

You wouldn't have a choice unless you have the ability to overthrow her decision. This is very simple and is as real as it gets. I am not saying that you should tell her what to do. I am not saying that at all. All I am saying is that both of you should agree that in a situation where there needs to be a "final say" (and not all situations warrant this), who will be the one to give it. That person will be the head of the household and/or the leader of the family. As I said before, as much as people want to claim equality and sharing and whatnot, who will be that person in your house? I want one person to say it will be their wife. That's all.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry for being late to ..., posted by soltero on Feb 4, 2005

Soltero,
It sounds like you have a good prospective on this subject. On the one hand,  I am attracted to bright, intelligent, creative women.  But, I don't want to be in competition with her either.  To me, that is one of the things that has gotten out of hand with AW, and has caused the demise of many marriages.  However, that is not to say that men have all of the answers and make perfect decisions.  Having said all of that, it takes time and patience to make a marriage work.  If both the husband and the wife put forth a serious concerted effort towards the mutual benefit of their marriage; with God's help, there is nothing that can tear it apart.  Of course, the reverse is far too frequent in the world we live in; no matter who is to blame.  One last point, and this goes for the business world, government, military, etc, as well as marriage.  Ultimately, there has to be a final decision maker.  I remember the old Harry Truman quote-- " The buck stops here"
He understood that somewhere along the way, there has to be a ultimate authority.  As has been said before, anything with two heads is a freak!

                            OkieMan

[soltero]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry for being late..., posted by OkieMan on Feb 4, 2005

I want an intelligent and creative woman as well, and I don't feel that I would do anything to stifle her creativity by being the head of the house. The danger lies in the competition, and that is one of the main reasons I would prefer someone other than an AW. Our society is geared toward competition, and there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you leave it out of the house. Maybe I am mistaken, but I would think that we would be on the same team. There has to be guidelines set as to whose job is what, and I don't mind cooking or doing the dishes, hell, I can even sew if I have to, but when it comes down to "this is the way we are going to do this", if it affects our family, then I will ask for input, but the decision is mine. I am no tyrant...actually, I am very easygoing, but experience has taught me that defined roles promote less stress.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry for being ..., posted by soltero on Feb 4, 2005

Soltero,
I feel the same way.  The competition crap, the role reversals, or undefined roles, whatever.  These are big issues with me.  I want a "traditional" marriage, and a traditional wife.  I don't mean to simply refer to these issues with nostaglia, but I am old enough to miss "the good old days".  So, one of my reasons of wanting a marriage with a latina is because of this.  But, I have other reasons too.  I am 51, and I am working on a relationship with a 35 year old calena.  She is beautiful, bright and creative.  I much prefer her to chasing after a 21 year old that does not have the life experiences to truly love and appreciate me.  At this point, time will tell.
                               OkieMan

[slojas1]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Sorry for being ..., posted by soltero on Feb 4, 2005

There is nothing wrong with being the head of your home, period! A ship can not be run with two captains and a home is much more complicated. If you subscribe to this line of thinking, you must marry a woman that have the same belief system. The new age women want an equal say in most matters but will say that they want a strong man in the same breath. It becomes a hard act to balance when the boundaries aren't clear or the target is a moving one. My wife gets her way in most matters simply because she understands what it is to be a woman. She looks to me for directing our family in all important matters. She also understands quite well that by being a sweet woman I will do everything that I can to ensure her hapiness. There is no competition for the pants in the house and we have clear well defined roles of how things work in our house. We are extremely happy and feel blessed to have found each other.

[soltero]

... in response to Head of household = husbands role, posted by slojas1 on Feb 4, 2005

Thank you. That's all I was trying to say. That whole "equal" deal is some serious brainwashing, and one that I have to remind myself to check before it gets out of hand. I try to truly be fair, but I have noticed that my novia expects me to make the decisions and she is more than happy to follow my lead. When I ask her too much about how she would like something done or what way about issues that concern us both, I can hear it in her voice that she expects me to make that decision. The only reason that I ask in the first place is because of the brainwashing. She trusts my judgement, and brings me back to reality real quick. I love SA!!!! When you find a Latina that is truly down for you, you have pure gold. I have been in relationships that were a constant battle, not because we weren't compatible, but because of the misguided notion that they did not want to be controlled. I wasn't trying to control them, but it is against my nature to permit anyone else to "run" me. I hear what the guys are saying about compromise, but it doesn't work. There is no compromise when the roles are defined. You do your part, and you reap the benefits. If your woman is woman enough to allow you to be a man, and you are man enough to be one, then that's as close to heaven on earth as you can get.