News on Colombia, Venzm and USA

[Onephd]

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/world/3005654

Venezuela's leader demands respect of U.S., Colombia
Washington seen as a force behind divisive rebel grab
Associated Press

AP
A supporter of the Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez shouts "Live Chavez" during a rally to commemorate an anniversary of Venezuela's democracy in Caracas, Venezuela. Chavez proposed a bet with President Bush on who will be in power longer.  

CARACAS, VENEZUELA - Supporters of President Hugo Chávez marched through Caracas on Sunday, demanding respect for Venezuela's sovereignty after U.S. criticism and Colombia's acknowledgment that it paid a bounty to capture a rebel on Venezuelan soil.

To mark the 47th anniversary of Venezuelan democracy, critics of Chávez staged a smaller march, accusing him of threatening freedoms gained in the Jan. 23, 1958, overthrow of Gen. Marcos Pérez Jiménez, Venezuela's last dictator.

"Venezuela must be respected!" Chávez told a massive crowd outside Miraflores presidential palace.

"Nobody can deny that what Colombia has done is a violation of international law ... the only government that has defended this vulgar error is the imperialist government of the United States."

The crowd chanted, "Chávez makes them crazy!"

Chávez blamed the United States for the crisis with Colombia. "This provocation came from Washington. It is the latest attempt by the imperialists ... to ruin our relations with Colombia," he said.

Chanting pro-Chávez slogans and carrying banners reading "Bush: Venezuela Is Not Iraq!" and "Colombia, Stay Out of Venezuela," tens of thousands of loyalists danced to traditional folk music booming from loudspeakers on trucks.

A row between Caracas and Bogotá arose when Colombia's defense minister, Jorge Uribe, said Colombia paid bounty hunters to arrest a wanted guerrilla in Venezuelan territory.

Chávez recalled Venezuela's ambassador to Bogotá and froze all economic deals between the two countries. He also demanded an apology from Colombian President Álvaro Uribe that was not forthcoming.

Uribe accuses Chávez of harboring FARC guerrillas and says Colombia has a right to hunt down "narcoterrorists."

Hundreds of Chávez opponents marched in the upscale Chacao district. Many government adversaries blame Chávez for the spat with Colombia, saying he has either ignored the presence of Colombia's Marxist rebels in Venezuela or offered them shelter.

"Chávez is the cause of this problem with Colombia, not Uribe, because he has given protection to Colombian rebels," said Francis Ordoñez, a 55-year-old housewife.

The Miami herald also carries the story.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/americas/10717698.htm

[slojas1]

... in response to News on Colombia, Venzm and USA, posted by Onephd on Jan 24, 2005

It is a shame to see this so-called leader run this country down even further. There is much more to this situation and there can be no denying that Chavez has looked the other way when it comes to narcotrafficers and FARC activity. He seems to be more of a Fidel knockoff than anything else. The Venezuelan people deserve much better!

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: News on Colombia, Venzm and USA, posted by slojas1 on Jan 24, 2005

Bush talked about the shipwreck of communism in his enagerile address.Seems a couple of row boats haven't got the news yet.They are still headed for the rocks without a clue.
Argentina wasn't real happy when the Israelis grabbed Adolf Eichman either.
BUT,anything that fires up nationalistic passions detracts from them facing their real problems.
So Chavez wants to bet Bush who will be president longer?Well we know exactly how long Bush will be there if he survives.Castro likes to say how he outlasted 8 American presidents.Dictators don't face re election.BUT,there is a good chance Bush will out last Chavez and maybe even Castro.
Its allways an easy sell telling a poor ignorant person its the rich persons fault they are poor.They need to take a close look at Cuba,where the economy was really flushed down the toilet by Castro.What a deal,you lose your freedom to make $10 a month while the dictator has 5 billion and is king of his own little island.

Pete

[Jamie]

... in response to Re: Re: News on Colombia, Venzm and USA, posted by Pete E on Jan 24, 2005

"BUT,anything that fires up nationalistic passions detracts from them facing their real problems."

That says it all.

Jamie
Engage the Exotic - Latin Women
http://International-Introductions. com

[pablo]

... in response to Re: Re: News on Colombia, Venzm and USA, posted by Pete E on Jan 24, 2005


Pete,

You mentioned Adolf Eichmann which prompted a quick Google search on my part about him.  I found a good read about his discovery, capture and trial at this link:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/eichcap.html

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: News on Colombia, Venzm and ..., posted by pablo on Jan 24, 2005

P,
I watched a TV special on it a few years ago.I think they got him in 1960,just snatched him out of Argentina.He was just living in a common neighborhood doing an ordinary job.
They tried him and executed him in Israel.You think Israel gave a sh-t about Argentina being upset?Argentina was the cover for lotsof war criminals.
I think Mengle was the doctor who supposedly drowned.That was the story but maybe it was a cover.
Today is the 60 year aniversary of some event at Ashwitzt.I don't think it was when they liberated it.Ann Frank died about March 1945 in some camp,like a month before they liberated it.
Hard to believe that happened at the hands of a first world government just 60 years ago.I think France bears great responsibility for insisting on terms in the treaty after WW1 that bankrupted Gernmany and left the door open to a Hitler type.Bad things can come out of bad situations.
And they would have got their butt kicked big time if we didn't save them,then they drive a very hard treaty.Did get their butt kicked in WW2 and we saved them again.Thats  they hate us,it hurt their pride getting their butt saved twice.We lost like 425,000 people in WW2,a good portion of them liberating France and they dick us around.
Its a shame so few kids understand history,or that it gets politically correctly sugar coated.History needs to be brutally blunt.Thay way you understand where you came from,a good perspective on where we are now.People who think the world is going to hell have a poor understanding of history.We are coming from hell,relatively.Like the inquisition existing untill 180 years ago in Colombia.But I digress.

Pete

[Throw]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: News on Colombia, Venzm ..., posted by Pete E on Jan 24, 2005

Pete said "People who think the world is going to hell have a poor understanding of history.We are coming from hell"

Pete without a doubt one of your best quotes.  I am going out and renting Apacolypse Now

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: News on Colombia, Ve..., posted by Throw on Jan 25, 2005

The problems of the world are far from over,but one big thing went away,the fear of a nuclear holocost because of a nuclear war by superpowers.
Before Russia evolved a survey came out with the results that MOST  US high school students thought that nuclear war was INEVITABLE.Who in the hell is teaching these kids?No wonder they will believe everything a Michael Moore type tells them.
Back during the gulf war I had a 17 year old kid working for me in my car business,washing cars,ect.He came in one day,all depressed.I said Josh,whats wrong?He said we are all going to die.Then he repeated the the theory that Saddam Housein was going to fire up all the Kuwait oil  wells,it would cause a nuclear winter type effect and everything on earth would die.I said bullshit,you wouldn't even see the smoke in California.They did create a mess locally but it had no worldwide effect,let alone killing us all.Interestingly this theory was supported by astronomer Carl Sagan,giving it some credibility but killing his forever.
Who is teaching these kids?Some f--king nut?And on a college level it gets worse.

Pete

[kented]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: News on Colombia..., posted by Pete E on Jan 25, 2005

As a middle school math teacher, I teach kids 1/6th of their school day for one of their twelve years of public education.  An elementary teacher has them for 1 twelth of their education.

As with most teachers, I spend 100% of my time on content.  I teach Math and perhaps Social Studies teachers spend some time of helping students form a world view.  The man next to me who teaches SS is a bron again Christian and believes in creationism.  I don't think he consiously teaches this but his ultra conservative world view may creep in to his teaching.  

Parents form kids values because of the vast amount of time they spend with them as well as controling how they spend their free time.  Some parents do a very bad job.  A lot more values are formed by video games, reality TV shows and the National Enquirer.  

I'm sorry education didn't go well for you but I don't think you cna blame teachers for all the ills of the world.

[Pete E]

... in response to parents are teaching kids..., posted by kented on Jan 26, 2005

Actually I agree with you that family values and also peer group values have a larger effect on most kids than their teachers.As a realtor I worked with people who wanted to get their kids in the school districts with the highest test scores.The kids scores to me were a reflection of who the parents were alot more than the teachers.Largely asian neighborhoods always did better.These kids work their butt off because the family DEMANDS it.And I am not blaming teachers for the ills of the world and my experiences with my own teacherswas overwhelmingly possitive.So please don't take what I said as an attack on teachers.And I do appreciate the service of teachers who could usually make more money doing something else but choose to teach because they like teaching kids.
But,there are some teachers out their with their own agendas and beliefs,especially at the college level,and they would like to indoctrinate the kids in their beliefs and knock down beliefs they did not agree on.Actually remembering back at the college level I did have some proffesors,one a department head,who were in my opinion way out in left field,rediculously so.Opinions they did not agree on would get shot down and ones they liked praised.
I remmeber the guy I mention here saying Oh no,no,no,when I told him something I thought was true and I could prove it with many examples.He didn't even want to listen to it.It didn't fit with his preconcieved notions,basically the ideal that the value of property had anything to do with how well people would maintain it,an absolute no brainer in my opinion.He was the head of the Urban Planing Department.
AND,in the example above of the kid who worked for me I didn't make it clear it was a high school teacher who scared the hell out of him with a totally fruitcake theory.
So I was reacting to teachers like that.
And I do believe that there is a huge liberall bias in college level education,going to the extreme of political correctness where free speach is even discouraged for thought that do not fit their notions.AND still a huge liberal bias in the media,even though we are starting to see some middle ground here with networks like FOX.To me they are in the middle,but seem extreme to many because they will tackle and attack all the politically correct notions.
Interestingly,I will probably kick off something by mentioning his name,but Bill O'reilly was discussing with someone the leftist bias in Universities and his explanation was it was better theory.I would add it can be very idealistic,to the expense of realism.
In the not too distant past it was only radio talk shows willing to take on and really question the cherished notions of the left.

Pete

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: parents are teaching kids..., posted by Pete E on Jan 26, 2005

Pete,

While some, or even most, universities in the northeast may be left leaning, the existence of colleges like Bob Jones University necesarily means that there is no HUGE liberal bias at the college level education.

In adition, remember that Condoleeza Rice was a provost of Stanford.  She is certainly not liberal.  There are many other academics, Alan Greenspan for one before he became Fed chairman, who are not at all liberal.  All those conservative judges that are getting appointed often taught in law schools prior to being elevated to the bar.

I don't think there is any such thing as a liberal business school.

Other conservatives who taught at universities are Newt Gingrich (history), and two former Texas Republican congressmen who both taught economics at UT.  I don't remember their names off hand. One called Barney Frank  "Barney Fag".  The other might be Phil Gramm.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: parents are teaching kids..., posted by Brazilophile on Jan 27, 2005

The existance of Bob Jones University means that there are conservative Universities,not that there is no liberal bias in universities.Bob Jones is an extreme example that is no where near the norm in Universities.For every Bob Jones student there are thousands at places like UC Berkely and UC Santa Cruz.You point to some other examples of a few people who taught that are not NOW liberal.That means nothing in terms of general bias out there.
Yes the business department is going to be more conservative than in political Science in any particular school.Its the proffesors that teach in the political and social areas that tend to be most liberal,and you have to take some classes in these areas usually to graduate.
I stand by my position,there is STILL a huge liberial bias in college level education and in most of the media.
Its not a US thing,it gets worse in some foriegn countries.
In the media the whiney side of reporting always gets more attention.They can be good at showing problems but very poor at putting them in perpective.
Of course we could have a discussion on what constitutes liberal.My opinion is that networks like Fox News that
interview people on all sides off the issues and give everybody a chance to respond  are mainstream or middle of the road,not biased one way or the other but willing to search for the truth and tackle all sacred opinions.They only seem conservative compared to very liberal points of view.
I love it when the most prominent spokespersons for 2 opposing points of view are interviwed and get to respond to one another.I love it when there is a panel of 5 people with opinions from left to right weigh in on current issues.
I really miss Fox news in Cali.They have it in Bogota.I can listen to different points of view from the best spokespersons for that view for for hours.With the format where the guy with the opposite point of view gets to poke holes in your argument.

Pete

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: parents are teaching kids..., posted by Brazilophile on Jan 27, 2005

Barney Frank is an extremely liberal homo Congressman from Massechusetts, or some other eastern state.  No way is he from Texas.  As far as the other examples you mentioned, I certainly agree that there are a few notable examples of conservatives that are somehow associated with the various colleges and universities throughout our country.  But, there is no question that the prevailing "school of thought" among the educators is liberal; many like Berkley in California (near San Francisco), are "flaming" liberal.  Make no mistake about it, those people have an agenda; an agenda that I strongly disagree with!

                                OkieMan

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: parents are teaching kids..., posted by OkieMan on Jan 27, 2005

OM, re-read my post!!!!  Now, re-read it again, CAREFULLY!!!!    

I did not say Barney Frank was a congressman from Texas!!!   I said that a conservative republican congressman from Texas who taught economics at UT once referred to Barney Frank as "Barney Fag"!!!  

When you right-wingers jump to conclusions due to mis-reading and mis-understanding, you lose some credibility and your arguments are taken much less seriously.

I do not doubt that there are liberal colleges with liberal agendas that you strongly dsagree with.  What I doubt is your implication that there are NO conservative colleges with conservative agendas that you strongly agree with.

[OkieMan]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: parents are teaching kid..., posted by Brazilophile on Jan 28, 2005

Brazilophile,
I am sorry that I misunderstood about the comment concerning Barney Frank; but I did not misunderstand about your comment concerning liberal vs conservative colleges or universities.  I know that there are some, but I was talking about the sheer number of liberal vs conservative schools.   Also, the large publishing companies that publish textbooks for the public schools, and certainly at the collegiate level; those companies have been in bed with the liberal left for years.  And Yes, I am a conservative and proud of it.  But, that is not to say that we cannot agree to disagree; without being disagreeable! I am not yet ready to bring back the dueling pistols.  Personally, I prefer Dueling Banjos (the song).  I play the guitar, and even though it says dueling banjos, really it was a guitar and a banjo.  I used to play professionally (which does not have anything to do with the price of tea in China)

                                  OkieMan