Patrick Look At This. It's Important.

[Dr Aaron]

[This message has been edited by Dr Aaron]

http://www.latinencounters.com/modules.php?recordID=0937&backgall=4&op=modload&name=Gallery&file=Detailgirl&file2=Gallery&condic=

Hi Patrick,

This agency is consciously advertising services to meet female members who are 16 years old, which would be a crime here in the USA. RAPE !!!!

1.) No American man, in their right mind, would ever consider starting the immigration process for a girl of this age because they wouldn't want to incriminate themselves.

2.) There's only two reasons why a girl of this age would be included on a foreign marriage agency website: to be used for sex, or the prospective husband would be willing to wait a few years for her. I'll let you decide which reason is most likely.

As far as I'm concerned, the new management has poor scruples, and I am sure it would be in the best interest of Planet Love to remove the link to the agency.

Secondly, in order to view any of the data for the ladies in their profiles within the photo gallery, men have to pay a membership fee.
I find this totally unethical for both the ladies and men. Men are not able to read profiles, but only look at the photos, which emphasizes physical attraction at the expense of considering other aspects, such as personality. Women are prevented to post a decent representation of themselves within their profiles.

However, this is just my opinion, and I'm sure plenty of desperate men will be willing to pay membership fees just to read bio-data of ladies. Actually, this practice can lead to a great scam...with fraudulent agencies that post simple profiles with fake bio-data of various women, and claim such women are female members; but in reality they are not. Such an agency would still be able to make money because men would pay to read the bio-data of these "phantom women," but when the time comes to request an introduction, or send a letter or flowers, of course the agency will claim that she is not available, or she received the flowers and/or letter but is not interested.  

At this rate, the new management will definitely run a good, long-time agency into the ground by these poor practices.  

Aaron

[kented]

... in response to Patrick Look At This. It's Important. , posted by Dr Aaron on Jan 4, 2005

...is definately different and girls become women a lot sooner.  Older men impregnate younger women, girls lose thier virginity at an incredibly young age especially when impoverished.

That said, US citizens face arrest and serious charges if they have sexual relations with minors.  These laws may be ignored in the country but not when the perpetrators are US citizens.

Costa Rica routinely allows what we would consider sexual child abuse withot a care but US citizens face serious penalties for partaking.  This is one case when a US national had better not assume he can act under local norms when traveling.  

Child prostitution, while not prevalent, exists in Costa Rica.  I assume that this would not be possible without customers.  However, US citizens are occasionally prosecuted for what is accepted as acceptable behavior by Costa Ricans.

[Ray]

... in response to the third world..., posted by kented on Jan 5, 2005

Kented,

You said: “…US citizens face arrest and serious charges if they have sexual relations with minors.” I think you were referring to the PROTECT Act. The law is aimed primarily at sex tourism and makes it illegal for U.S. citizens or permanent residents to engage in “commercial sex acts” (prostitution) with a minor under 18 in a foreign country. But it does not cover non-commercial sex.

Interestingly, there is no minimum age for a female applying for a fiancée visa. The law only requires that the parties be free to legally marry. If her age requires special consent or permission from parents or guardians in the jurisdiction in which the marriage will take place, then you must provide written proof of consent with your visa petition.

The minimum age to legally marry varies by state. In most states, you can marry at age 16 with parental consent. In some states, the minimum age is even lower than that. In New York and some other states, you can marry at 14 with parental consent and a court order. In New Hampshire, it’s possible for a female to marry as young as 13. California doesn’t even have a minimum age.

If she is under the legal age in her country then you may have other problems. In any case, I would expect some very close scrutiny before a fiancée visa is issued to a girl under 18.

Ray

[Gary Bala]

... in response to Not necessarily true..., posted by Ray on Jan 6, 2005

Thanks, Ray.
I have assisted in securing fiancee visas
and spousal visas for ladies under the age
of 18, with parental consent for marriage
in writing.

Typically, consular officers will scrutinize
these visa applications closely not only
to satisfy the requirement that the proffered
relationship is sincere and genuine, but also,
if warranted, to ensure that visa issuance is
in the best interest of the minor.

Regards.

[Payton]

... in response to Patrick Look At This. It's Important. , posted by Dr Aaron on Jan 4, 2005

I checked out thier page and I have to say that it is not very much like a site that is selling sex.  I have seen a site that is selling sex and well it is screaming sex!  I look at the sixteen year old girl on the site as them not discouraging this young ladies dream!  They should not tell anyone that they have no chance with a guy.  What I do believe is that any dirty old man that would try to hook up with this girl and sleep with her would have big problems.  If that was my daughter and some 40 year old man got her in bed I would promptly let his location and what he had done be known to the local guerrillas and let them deal with him.  There is a code of ethics in every part of the world, in Jail pediphiles are the low lifes of the prison and usually don't survive. My point is that the Colombian people are good people and they are going to keep their high standards of ethics so give the girl and the ladies that you are looking at more credit than what you have.  All of my experiences with Colombians in 1999 have been positive except for the one guy that I would not buy his shoes that he was selling and he yelled at me.  If I go to Cali instead of Medellin I think I would use this agency.  The thing is that I have talked to this girl a while back, she loves baseball and knows a lot about it and she is in Medellin and we are going to meet when I go to medellin!  Oh yeah did I mention the fact that my old PC with all her pictures blew up and I still remember her like it was yeterday!

[Fuzzyone]

... in response to Re: Patrick Look At This. It's Important..., posted by Payton on Jan 5, 2005

I have spent alot of time in poor neighborhoods down there and I can tell
you one thing that if there is a choice of eating or throwing that high standard
of ethics out the window guess what wins? I have seen alot that makes me
wonder sometimes The women in the neighborhood are treated like crap... the
ones that don't put up with it are alone no man wants them. I got to watch men
and woman using drugs every where... I watched their kids running wild in the
streets because the parents were out shop lifting for more drugs. I also got to
listen to gun fire as people got robbed of all their pesos. A girl is considered
fare game at 12 years old sad but true... my wife is a teacher and told me about
some of her students who get pregant from men that are 30 years old and
above. She explained to me that if you have no money what are you going to do?
The guerrillas don't give a crap about a old man banging a young girl they are
doing it also. Just don't mess with their drug business.... For all the bad down
there I still love the place only because every time I go there no matter how hard
their lives are they still treat each other with repect unless they want your pesos
then you are hit....

[Pete E]

... in response to Patrick Look At This. It's Important. , posted by Dr Aaron on Jan 4, 2005

I have met the young lady you speak of and her mother,who is also on the site.I had a cita with the mother,then she came to a party at my house and brought the daughter.Traveler knows them also and posted about it in a thread below.
I also think 16 is too young to be on a marriage agency site
and the mother is doing the daughter a diservice getting her involved.On the other hand this is Colombia and perhaps it is her best opportunity  for  a better life.We tend to judge by our standards,and if you assume the rediculous US standard that sex with a 16 year old is rape and even seeking to meet one a crime,then we are WORLDS apart from
Colombian and most of the rest of the world thinking.
That is not to say this girl is offering sex,just seeking to meet a man.
You are right a guy would be in a world of trouble even if he legally married the girl in Colombia and tried to bring her to the US.But guys from the US are not the only ones meeting girls at the agencies.
Bottom line I agree with you its inappropriate.I don't think it even starts to raise to the level of a crime however.At least not in the country she lives in.
As far as charging to see photos,that might bring in some  income from lurkers but will tend to drive away seekers in the know who realise its one more expense they do not need to bite off,there are lots of agencies who don't do that.

Pete

[Payton]

... in response to Re: Patrick Look At This. It's Important..., posted by Pete E on Jan 5, 2005

Well said Pete!

[Ray]

... in response to Patrick Look At This. It's Important. , posted by Dr Aaron on Jan 4, 2005

Is 16 too young? Yes!

Is it a crime or "rape" to meet a 16-year-old in another contry? No!

You sound like one of them dumb-ass know-it-all feminists (LOL!)

Ray

[soltero]

... in response to Patrick Look At This. It's Important. , posted by Dr Aaron on Jan 4, 2005

This is why I think that spending all that time in the ivory tower is a huge waste of time. It tends to give some people who spend their time locked in a little room taking notes the misguided impression that they actually know something. The world doesn't work that way and never has. Although I agree that a 16 year old has no place in a marriage agency, I am not so full of myself that I think that that is no more than an opinion based on the society that I grew up in, and having gotten out of the house on occasion, understand that there are other cultures that would disagree and who am I to say that they are wrong? I believe the age of consent in Colombia is 14. About 70 or 80 years ago here in the US it was 13, and I believe on the books in some areas of this country, the state laws still say 12 or did up until a few years ago before it was federalized. Not saying that it is wrong to think the way that you do, it is just wrong for you to think that you are the barometer for the world's view. Women are physically able to have children at or around 12 or 13. At one point in the history of the world, this was necessary for our survival as a species. People usually didn't live past 25 or 30 on average. You just live here Dr. Aaron. The fact that you read a book or two doesn't make you any more the judge and jury than it made the Missionaries that wanted to convert the "savages" and wiped out more cultures than disease and famine.

[david hagar]

... in response to The problem with the "educated"..., posted by soltero on Jan 5, 2005

there is an eastern european site that used to have 14 and 16 years old on their site. no one said a word about that agency  i agree 16 years is to young for a marriage agency, but the 3 rd world is different

beattledog

[Onephd]

... in response to The problem with the "educated"..., posted by soltero on Jan 5, 2005

Well I have to say that I'm also one of the "Educated" and I used to think like you do until I got interested in getting my doctorate and learned what it is Professor really do and how they shape the world in their respective fields.   But that's not the point of this post.

I think Aaron was simply saying that a man having a 16 year old wife could cause some legal problems here in the US.   The general assumption is that when someone goes to Colombia or wherever, is that they will marry that person and bring them back to the US.  To be honest I'm not sure of how that would exactly work, but I would be leery of it.  Here is why: US- It is considered rape for a person of age to have sex with a person under the age.  Granted the parents will have given permission for their child to marry the man, but it's not clear to me what the result would be when they return to the US.  I guess it would be ok, but I'm not an attorney.  

Finally, I think Aarons major point was to say that a firm advertising a 16 year old should be looked upon with suspicion as it could be easily confused with one of those sites that sets up men to have sex with young girls. Yes those types of places do exist. The thing is, having a (some) 16 year old women could attract a “different” type of man to the agency.  That would not be good for the men that are seeking relationships and marriage.  We all know about the men that go down to Colombia and seek to have “fun” rather than try and find a suitable partner for marriage.  

Can you imagine what would happen if a man posted his photos of  his16 year old girlfriend in his hotel room on his bed in underwear or even a bathing suit?  That person might be approaching the child porn borderline.  Again perhaps this sounds extreme, but you never know and I know I don’t know the law so I wouldn’t do it.  Again Aarons point is just to make people aware of the potential problems and hazards that could exist with a agency that post 16 year old girls.

While the age of consent might be different in Colombia, make no mistake that people in general do not think it’s a good idea that a older man have a teenager for a novia or otherwise.   Sure you might see it, but that doesn't make it right or acceptable.  My ex novia pointed out a couple like that to me and then we discussed what she thought of it and what she thought was public opinion in Colombia (granted this is her opinion of the general opinion). She said that while it’s typical for a man to be slightly older than a woman, it’s not looked upon happily when a man is considerably older than a woman (i.e., a 45 year old man with a teenage). In many ways, Colombia is not much different than the US.  There is a difference between couple where a man who is 52 and a woman who is 30 and a couple where the man is 38 and the woman is 16.  The later is not looked up favorably in either the US or Colombia or anywhere in my opinion.  

I’m sure someone will think this is a PhD mafia or some sort, but I wanted to take a moment to point out a few things.  I know we have some attorneys on the board, it would be great if they shared their feelings and legal opinion.

Happy New Year everyone

[soltero]

... in response to Re: The problem with the "educated&..., posted by Onephd on Jan 5, 2005

I think we all agree with and understand Dr Aaron's intent. My issue was with his pompous, righteous indignation and his assumption of depravity. It is that line of thinking that led others to label certain groups of people "savages". When I put "educated" in quotes, I did it for a reason. There is a major difference between being gifted with intellect, and being taught how to do something. I am a firm believer that if you pay enough money and work hard enough, any person with a modicum of sense and perseverance can be a PhD. All you have to do is show up for class and take notes. I used to have a guy with a PhD in Psychology cut my lawn. Great conversationalist, by the way. I have seen true geniuses shuffled through the educational system in special education classes mainly because the teachers weren't smart enough to teach them so instead of recognizing their talent, they tried to cover up their own ignorance. Those doctorates are good for getting jobs (sometimes), but that's about it. You either have it or you don't, and waving a piece of paper in front of someone that does just makes you look "educated".

[Onephd]

... in response to Re: Re: The problem with the "educa..., posted by soltero on Jan 5, 2005

Well, I have to disagree with you on some things.  

1.  Getting a PhD in almost any field requires that you have some substantial gray matter (usually top 10% just to be considered).  Additionally, significant work experience is now also being required by many schools and fields.

2.  Getting a PhD is far from just taking notes and studying.  That would be your typical grad school or undergrad formula.  The entire idea behind obtaining a PhD is to demonstrate ones ability to critically think about old ideas, to think of new ideas, to formulate theory, to test that theory and finally to explain the results or lack there of.  This usually requires aside from a deep understanding of ones field,  a statistical knowledge way beyond what most of us know and use on a day to day basis. Granted I'm speaking from the perspective of having obtained a PhD in Accounting.

3.  Most PhD. are fully funded. That is, as a student I was on a full ride and I got a generous salary on top.  This obviously makes getting into a program very difficult and competitive. At my old school (Michigan State U) about 1-50 applications got accepted to the Accounting PhD program.  Now maybe that is not impressive, but when you consider that the pool generally consist of people with 700 GMAT scores, and 4.0's GPA and a list of other achievements, its pretty dog-on impressive that one gets accepted to an Accounting doctoral program. In fact only about 60-70 people a year in the entire US earn a PhD. in Accounting. This reflects the small number of students accpeted into the one of 77 programs in the US.

4.  I will agree that you need tons of perseverance and next to intellect that is number 2 in the "must haves" to obtain a PhD.  In fact, that is where the big differences come in.  There are a lot of smart people in the world, and usually they get by pretty easily, however, to get a PhD, you must be smart and also have a lot of perseverance. This combination is not easily found.   In fact after getting accepted to a program, perseverance is what gets you through-given you have the gray matter to do the work.

So again, I'm not picking a fight.  I'm just saying I understand your comments, but Aaron’s comments have nothing to do with his PhD.  Other than my specialty, I'm a normal person with normal thought processes.  PhD's are smart enough to know they are not experts outside their fields. So anything a person says here on this board (PhD or not) should be taken as a mans opinion and nothing more.  

Finally, there some schools (distance learning based) that have easier ways to get a PhD.  However, I think Aaron went to Penn State which is a Big Ten School like Michigan State, Michigan etc.  Getting a PhD from a school like this is considered to World Class in the world of academia.  You might not like him or me for that matter, but one thing is you have to respect him for his craft.  Which is not related to this board so again, anything a person says should not be tied to their profession? It’s two different things.

As for the psychology guy that cuts your grass. Their field is very competitive (too many PhD's) so that might explain it.  Also he may not have actually finished his Doctorate.  He may also have foreced out of academia due to his inability to publish or perhaps worse.  The fact is I don't know why he cuts grass for a living.  The best way is to ask him. The real fact is it really doesn't matter to the agrugment.  There are no absolutes in the world.

Chat later

[slojas1]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: The problem with the "e..., posted by Onephd on Jan 6, 2005

"I will agree that you need tons of perseverance and next to intellect that is number 2 in the "must haves" to obtain a PhD. In fact, that is where the big differences come in. There are a lot of smart people in the world, and usually they get by pretty easily, however, to get a PhD, you must be smart and also have a lot of perseverance. This combination is not easily found. In fact after getting accepted to a program, perseverance is what gets you through-given you have the gray matter to do the work".

I would rank perseverance as the number one quality. I think it goes without saying a certain amount of brain power is necessary, I disagree if you think only the best are in doctorate programs. My grandfather who only had an 8th grade education is the most intelligent man that I've met in life, my brother is self taught in the world of communication/computers. He hasn't made less than 100k since he was 22 and now he rakes in more than most CEO's of mid size companies. I am convinced that the most gifted athletes are not competing in the NHL, NBA, NFL, etc. Those guys had a plan and the perseverance to stick with their plan. others were just damn lucky. Can you say serendipity! The same applies to those with doctorates. I certainly do not believe that the most gifted minds are interested in obtaining a PhD. I do believe many do it for personal reasons and not to better the interest of mankind. Dr Aaron comes to mind! If only all were so noble as you state. I respect anyone who has a plan and executes. I know a woman that has worked for Walgreen since she completed high school, today with her stock options and her participation in company offered retirement plans she is worth more than 1 1/2 million and she is still way too young to retire. That was always her plan, she was laughed at and scorned for not going to college, but she stuck to her plan. Perseverance! PhD's like doctors for the most part have that nose in the air attitude that I despise. I have nothing but respect for any that has a plan and executes. I have no respect for anyone that thinks their shit don't stink. That includes members of any class, educated or not.
Plan, execute, persevere. That is a helluva game plan and I applaud your efforts and dr Aarons's for sticking it out. Now to find a latina that really understands what you sacrificed and can relate intellectually! Call me when that happens.