8 more days till Cali

[chizz]

Hello all,
I now have 8 days til Cali, and I am starting to pack. I like to dress pretty well when I go out dancing, so my question is this: What exactly should I wear in Cali, to go out? I'm not really a jeans kind of guy, I like nice slacks, dress shoes, and shirt. Sometimes even a suit. Any suggestions are welcomed. take care
Bryan

[Ken2]

... in response to 8 more days till Cali, posted by chizz on Dec 15, 2003

Being a younger guy I dress like a American teen.  Baggy short, baggy shirt and Vans.   All the teens at the mall look at my shoes as there not sold in Cali.  There are a few skaters and Americanized teens that dig the look.  More importantly its what Im comfortable in.  In the evenings however, I dress out slack/jeans and a nice shirt.

Have a BLAST!!

Ken

[thundernco]

... in response to Re: 8 more days till Cali, posted by Ken2 on Dec 16, 2003

At last, someone else who wears shorts in Cali! -TNC

[CaliAdvisor]

... in response to Re: Re: 8 more days till Cali, posted by thundernco on Dec 16, 2003

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA n/t, posted by CaliAdvisor on Dec 17, 2003

Last year I started a thread on LWL discussing this very issue.  Part of my reason for it was that as a guy over 6 feet tall, I do not have as wide a choice clothing as do shorter guys, and my nice clothing is costlier than that for shorter guys.  I also have big feet. (It goes with being tall.)  There is simply a very limited selection of nice shoes at reasonable prices in sizes over 12.  Latinos are generally much shorter than Europeans and North Americans so it is much easier for them to be clothes horses.  With the Internet, shopping is less time consuming but is still very inconvenient.  I have a peeve regarding people who cavalierly want to recommend a new wardrobe to someone ENTIRELY AT THAT OTHER PERSON'S EXPENSE AND INCONVENIENCE.  If I am paying for my clothes then I decide what I will wear.  If someone else wants me to wear particular clothing THEY need to shop for and pay for those clothes.  When we men want our ladies to wear special clothing we go out and buy it.  And that is how it should be.

The main reason for the thread was to discuss an observation that may have an impact on how we relate to Latin culture.  I dress down for several reasons, one I just gave above.  Another is because I prefer to use something else as a means of conveying status.  Here in the US cars and homes convey status.  Personally, I don't need for my car to be fancy. I recently bought a used Avalon, which is a semi-luxury car, but it is one of the few cars into which I could fit and drive comfortably.  My preferred conveyance of status is a home.  My clothes are not impressive.  My car is only somewhat impressive.  But I own nice furniture.  I own nice artwork.  I own a nice sound system. Etc.  When I owned a house (I sold 3 years ago as part a relocation.) I was trimming the hedges, weeding the lawn, etc. each week-end.  The appearance of my home is important to me.

This was the gist of our discussion.  People tend to put the most status on the most expensive thing they own.  So in wealthier countries, where we own our homes, that is the object that conveys status.  When you live in a nice house in a nice neighborhood, it doesn't matter how you dress.   When you can't afford a nice house, then it is the car that conveys status.  If you have a flashy car, it matters less how you dress.  So in poorer countries where the average person doesn't own their home or a car, it is their clothing whch must convey status.  Ergo the importance of not wearing shorts in Cali.  Among the majority of women we are meeting, clothing is the status symbol so when we dress down we appear to have less status.

My question to those with Latin wives here in the US, what is their reaction to the wealthier US status symbols?  Does the house appearance matter?  Does the neighborhood matter?  Does your car matter?  Is it still your clothes that matter most?  If so, how is your property treated?  Does she drive in a manner that reduces dings and dents to your car? Does she walk by trash on your lawn instead of picking it up putting it in the garbage?  

I got a red flag from a Calena I dated in 2000.  We spent 2 weeks in Santa Marta in an Aparthotel.  One day she was putting polish on her toe nails.  She put her foot on the sofa she was sitting on with the open bottle of nail polish directly on the sofa material.  I asked her if this was the usual way she put polish on her nails.  I explained that the open bottle could fall and spill polish on the furniture.  She rolled her eyes and replaced the bottle on the table.  I had visions of nail polish spilling on my nice furniture that I worked very hard to buy.  I also had visions of a serious fight starting from her rolling her eyes at my request for her to respect my property.  She changed her tone some as she saw how careful I was with property.  Still, the red flag was that she did not spontaneously respect the property of others.  

Sorry for the long post.  I got carried away.

[Hoda]

... in response to Re: Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA, posted by Brazilophile on Dec 17, 2003

[This message has been edited by Hoda]

Brazilophie...

Long time no hear....I hope this helps

My question to those with Latin wives here in the US, what is their reaction to the wealthier US status symbols?
- Speaking only from my wife's impressions... the high level of materialism she has witnessed here is shocking to her at times. She wonders why so many people with so many status symbols....are still so unhappy!

Does the house appearance matter?
- Our home isn't fancy, but she prides herself on keeping it in order...lol. Meaning, that the home has to be kept neat & clean.

Does the neighborhood matter?
- To her....yes, it does matter. Before settling on a particular area. We visited a number of areas. I did this so that she could feel/see for herself. Once we found an area that clicked for both of us.....it may her adaption soooo much easier.

Does your car matter?
- No, it didn't matter. The area of metro NYC that we are currently living in doesn't require a car to get around. Public Trans & living within walking distance works well for her. My lady is definitly not a country girl. Having to drive to the store, doesn't sit well with her.

Is it still your clothes that matter most?
- Clothes must clean & neat. Oh sure, we have our "bumming" moments (me moreso than her...lol). But when we step out....no half stepping allowed...lol.

If so, how is your property treated?
- With mutual respect! If she needs to move something that I feel is delicate (artwork, electronics, etc...)she'll ask me to handle it or ask for special instructions.

Does she drive in a manner that reduces dings and dents to your car?
- She isn't driving....YET! Traffic is much calmer here, than in Cali. So it's something we'll persue in the future.

Does she walk by trash on your lawn instead of picking it up putting it in the garbage?
- Dayyum, you must have a camera on her...lol. If the wind doesn't blow it away before she gets it.....in the garbage it goes.

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Response..., posted by Hoda on Dec 19, 2003

Howard,

Thanks for the response.  Your wife is a GEM!!!!!!

Geoff

[thundernco]

... in response to Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA n/t, posted by CaliAdvisor on Dec 17, 2003

n/t

[beenthere]

... in response to Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA n/t, posted by CaliAdvisor on Dec 17, 2003

I would like to add to this thread, but not necessarily state my opinion, but the opinions of many Calenas that I have talked to regarding the way many gringos dress while in Cali.
I've never used that many agencies, but I did join one in June, and I made it a point the last 2 times I've been there to ask the girls their impressions of the gringos that visit.
To a "T" they all agreed that the biggest complaint they have with most of the gringos is the way they dress.  A gringo showing up on a first date (initial meeting) with shorts, T-shirt, and sandals, makes a horrible first impression with these women.  They hate it!!!  Also many gringos go out dressed like this on second or third dates.  The women feel very uncomfortable with the guy, in fact, many are embarrassed.
Secondly, many complained about the personal hygiene of men.  Men who don't wear deodorant, who don't shower everyday, who don't wear a nice cologne, who don't brush their teeth often, who have bad breath, who don't shave before a date, who are in need of a haircut.  You would be surprised at some of the stories these women have told me.
Dress and personal hygiene is VERY important to these ladies.  Shorts, T-shirts, and sandals might be a big hit with teenage boys at the mall, but one won't get far with the ladies if you dress this way on dates.  Just look at the way Colombian men dress..............either nice jeans, or slacks, button down, or pull over shirts, and nice shoes.  You NEVER see Colombian men dressed in shorts and sandals.  (BTW, there are exceptions in Cartegena and Barranquilla, but on initial meetings and dinner dates, shorts are still a no-no).  Believe it or not, we are competing with the Colombian guys to some extent.........we must dress just as good as them , if not better.  Plus Colombianas (especially Calenas) prefer a man with polish, and class........vanity is a GOOD thing there. That probably goes for the rest of Latin America also.
Remember..........I'm just the messenger, though I whole-heartly agree with their assessment.

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA n/t, posted by beenthere on Dec 17, 2003

Bravo beenthere

The same info been posted has been posted twenty times. Guys,I don´t care if your girl likes shorts and you brush omce a week, it is not Dallas or Chicago. In Cali a gentleman always wears cologne and clean clothes and a manicure is not faggy it is essential. She will not be impressed with your dirty nails here, It is not a sign you are hard working. It is a sign that you are a dirty pig and maybe you should re evaluate why you can´t get a woman in the US. In other words you should try a trailer park if you want a dirty woman who dosn´t mind. jimc

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Re: Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA n/t, posted by jim c on Dec 17, 2003

one of the things my ex-Colombiana specifically mentioned to me was that she noticed my clean fingernails when we first met and she likes that in a man.  And she wasn't digging deep to find something to compliment (She also asked me how I keep my abs in good shape.)  Now I don't get manicures, but I try to take care of my nails.  No woman ever mentioned that to me here in the US, but a Colombiana did.

Steve

[beenthere]

... in response to Re: Re: Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA n/t, posted by jim c on Dec 17, 2003

yeah Jim.............being a metrosexual is definitely a plus when it comes to winning over latinas.............I love my manicure and pedicure when I'm in Cali........

[thundernco]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Shorts in Cali??? BAD IDEA n..., posted by beenthere on Dec 17, 2003

get that label all the time.  For me, the point is that my wife has accompanied me to anything from black tie events in San Francsico to flea markets in Sacramento to shopping in El Centro in Cali to surfing in Santa Cruz.  She doesn't care if I wear shorts or chinos or whatever as long as it appropriate.  We do our spa days, and the like, but she definitely sees nothing wrong with me wearing shorts in Cali.  Regardless, I'll keep wearing my shorts in spite of what the "experts" say.  Now let's get back to the good posts like why a married man lets his wife accept gifts from other men.

[beenthere]

... in response to Metrosexual, yep..., posted by thundernco on Dec 18, 2003

Nothing wrong with wearing shorts in Cali if you're not looking to impress a woman................If you have a good woman by your side who loves and adores you, it really doesn't matter what one wears............just so your wife is happy...........the old saying goes "a happy wife makes a happy life"..............
So I guess if she's happy accepting gifts from other men, that counts too............lol

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Metrosexual, yep..., posted by beenthere on Dec 18, 2003

Some women would be happy with an extra man or two, but I draw the line.  No really.  It's true.  I draw the line there.  

Thongs: OK.  Sensual massages: Not OK.

Steve