Saludos from Guayaquil

[Cali vet]

We've been traveling around Ecuador for a couple of weeks and it's turned out to be a whole lot different than I expected. We arrived in Quito which I thought would be about like Lima or maybe dingier and gloomier. No way! First off the taxis at the airport were fancy new Puegeot station wagons and right away I noticed the absence of the Cali kill or be killed trafic style. All calm and orderly like well...Missouri. The weather is like Lima but by mid morning the sun comes out and it warms up. We took one of the Puegeots to a small hotel on Avenida Amazonas in New Town which is Quito�Ls showpiece and where most foreigners stay. Every sign in the place was in English which meant I had to translate everything for my wife. The sector is full of cool shops, internet cafes, restaurants and foreigners, both visitors and long stay residents. Once in Cali Ricardo of ACG told me the shopping malls in Quito make Chipichapi look like a "porqueria". He's right. We went to one that was definately equal to any upscale US mall. Downtown is bustling and full of modern buildings and Old Town is the very photogenic Colonial sector. We felt completely safe walking around in both. The downside is that to my shock and horror Ecuador is EXPENSIVE due to complete dollarization a few  years ago. Prices in some cases are two to three times what they are in Colombia. So far the only exception I see is car prices which are inflated in Cali anyway. My wife was stunned too since a short while ago Ecuador is where Colombians went to shop for bargains. Not no more!

This trip was kind of an exploratory mission. I´m starting to get cabin fever in Colombia since there are so many places I just can't go so the idea was to check out Ecuador for a possible move. One city I´d heard good things about was Cuenca so we made that our  next stop. It is the most colonial of all and the third largest. I liked it a lot and we did look at a pretty nice house that was "only" $300 a month (more than double what I pay in cali). They call the climate "eternal spring"  which is true but it's a pretty cold spring and my wife complained bitterly saying it was only slightly warmer than Quito. I have to say that of all the places we visited Cuenca had the highest concentration of chicas bonitas. The impression is based on a head count for an hour while sitting in a cafe facing the main plaza and probobly due to the city being small and having four or five universities. I think a guy with the gift of the gab might do pretty well there. In fact I have to say (at the risk of starting up the old "the are prettier in..." debate) that I saw lots more pretty girls all over Ecuador than I saw anywhere in our recent trip to Peru. That said they still don't outshine my calena who I noticed got even more looks from the men here than she does in Cali.
Seeing that my wife would be miserable in the "cold" Cuenca climate we took the six hour bus ride south to Loja which is either a real big pueblo or a real small city. I fell in love. There is a huge national forest with cloud forests and a lake region, Podocarpus just outside town, two universities where my wife can take classes and a climate that by my standards is just perfect albeit still coldish by hers but tolerable she says. We then made a visit to Cabanas Rio Yambala in Vicabamba an hour from Loja. These are some real primative cabins owned by a gringo twenty-five year Ecuador resident and his Swiss wife. There was a trail that follwed the river which was really more of a creek up a narrow valley but not  much else to do or see. I'd expected more of a jungle experience which it wasn't at all.

From Loja we took a twenty-five minute flight to Guayaquil. We thought Quito was pretty nice but Guayaquil at least the downtown area around Parque Bolivar and the Malecon along the riverfront really blew us away. The Malecon reminds me of Chicago's Navy Pier but nicer with beautifully maintained gardens and pools and sculpture/ lookout structures with a nautical theme, dozens of restaurants and an elongated shopping mall below decks. Downtown is a mix of gleeming modern  highrise buidings with some daring architectural styles cheek by jowl with huge freshly painted colonials. Hotels everywhere but not many below thirty a night and most a lot more than that. Patrick has commented in the past that someone ought to start an agency here and he's probobly right. It's a big city and no doubt full of beauties though I can't say I saw many of them even at the enormous and very upscale Mall Del Sol on the way airport. However our visit was on a week day.

When we get back to Cali I'll head over to the Ecuador consulate to see what we need to get their visa.

[QuitoMan]

... in response to Saludos from Guayaquil, posted by Cali vet on Nov 28, 2003

Hi Cali vet

 wish you'd looked me up so we could have met up for a beer or meal. I'm glad you seem to have liked your visit to my adopted country. You certainly got around a bit in a short time - not been to Loja yet myself as its a 15 hour bus journey away from Quito. Nor even to Cuenca - which I badly want to visit. Only good things get said about both places by the Quitenos.

I'm going to take the opportunity to share some of my knowledge on Ecuador here.

 As you found out Ecuador has got expensive. It was the cheapest country 5 years ago in all L.A. - now it's top of the pile. Cars are expensive here and all white goods. Patrick put it very well a while ago - if you want to export your American lidestyle to South America be prepared to pay more than you would most places in the States. If you can live more like the locals, eat like them and where they do. Whatsmore, don't move to LA looking for convenience, the U.S. has the monopoly. But you already must know that living in Cali.

 I was surprised about your comment about the malls in Quito compared to Cali. The malls are good in Quito, there's at least 5 with El Bosque being larger than QuiCentro. I find Quito to be VERY livable. Top quality restaurants, ( we eat real Italian pizza and pasta last night - in a lovely atmospheric place $20 for the 2 of us - which even for Quito is slightly pricey) or shakedown places the locals love - one place sells the Best fish soup - for $1. + live music places and clubs, all the major latin artists playing here regularly viz Shakira and marc Anthony and Buena Vista Social Club, and loads of museums and culture. You can be on the coast in 4 hours, drive to thermal pools only 1 and a half hours away at 11,000 feet or be in the Amazon jungle in 5 hours. Climate at about 60-75 degrees year round with a few exceptions either side.

So what are the 'downsides'? The prices. Maybe the women - I say maybe because where are we comparing? I've never made it up to Cali, but i've driven from the Ecuadorean border to Pasto in Colombia. The women in Ecuador, are in my opinion prettier than those in Pasto or, here's a big claim, anywhere I saw in Venezuela ( have spent 3 months travelling around that country - great place!). In the mountains of Ecuador we have a mixture of whites, typical latin look and American-indians - there is an indian look to many women - some are stunningly pretty and some clearly not. The women here tend to be slimmer than the typical latin look of the coastal latinas. Ecuadors coastal women, including the Guayaquil chicas have that typical coastal look - see Rosario on the site for instance. There is a black population here but you would have to stray up to Esmeraldas province on the northern coast to see sizeable numbers of black people - or one Sierran village called Choto on the Pan-American highway (joke name) to Colombia.

 Guayaquil had a terrible reputation for filth and crime and actally smelt apparently - and that only 20 years ago. Since that time a new mayor has introduced a zero-tolerance strategy combined with sizable investment so that you now have the beautiful and safe Malecon area where national tourists love to visit - Ecuadoreans are very proud of it. Outside of the centre its still a dump... BUT BUT BUT - there are barrios where houses cost a million with private docks on lagunas buzzed by jet-skiers. In contrast avoid South Guayaquil at all cost as its notoriously home to the worse delinquents in Ecuador. Rich get kidnapped by guys from that area - how do I know - because we have loads of crime programs on the box. Having said that supposedly many of the robbers came up to Quito and Cuenca as a result of the zero-tolerance in G. - but Quito seems very safe during the day and most places at night. But a $2-3 taxi fare gets you virtually anywhere from the center so why risk it.

 The prices are going up all the time as tax rates go up to pay for less taxes collected from industry and individuals. It's a vicious circle. But wait, a wicked rumour is given substance. I have it on good authority that
several local offices of international companies have been
told by head office in USA to prepare a budget in 2 currencies for 2004. The $ and the New Sucre at 4 to a $1.
It has been rumoured that Ecuador would switch away from the $. If that happens it will be disastrous for all locals who have credit in $s but would lead to a situation like Argentina - bargain prices for investors.

 So Calivet - maybe something to consider before buying here. Anyway, next time you are coming to Quito drop me a line. Lets hook up. Anyone else on the list for that matter.

 Steve
www.latin-women-gold.com

 

[Cali vet]

... in response to Life in Ecuador, posted by QuitoMan on Nov 30, 2003

Hi Steve thanks for your comments and tips on Ecuador. I guess I wasn't paying attention and didn't realize we have a Ecuador resident on the board. I would have been great to hook up. How about next time? As to the malls maybe I wasn't clear. I was saying the malls in Cali don't hold a candle to those in Quito and Guayaquil as Ricardo here in Cali forwarned us. We only stayed in Quito long enough to take in a couple of sights and get plane tickets to Cuenca. Stayed at the Magic Bean on Amazonas maybe you know it. I'm not interested in living in a big city so never considered Quito, just wanted to see it. And my calena wife starts complaining and running for coats and blankets any time the temperature "plunges" down to 24C (76F) so I have a sales job ahead of me getting her to move to Loja which though warmer than Quito is still plenty "frio" by her standards. Vilcabamba an hour downhill is much warmer buts it's only a pueblo. I can at least offer my wife classes at a university in Loja. I'm told Vilcabamba already has a small population of US expats a bunch of whom are young hippies. I'm also not interested in living an American life stlye the exception being I'd like to have a second hand car and be able to drive it freely around the country to places I can then walk around in freely. I see gas prices are the same as in the US but that's true in Cali. I certainly won't buy property untill I'm sure I like and can afford the place. Afford? that looks like the big question now. By all means you should make a trip to Cuenca.

[QuitoMan]

... in response to Re: Life in Ecuador, posted by Cali vet on Dec 1, 2003

Yes - I can see that the temperature thing will be an issue but you know what? IMO it would be crazy to let that control your decision. I've met dozens of latinos, Africans and Carribean people in the UK (my country) and Holland. They all moan a bit about the cold but eventually they adjust after a year or so. Maybe Vilcabamba for 6 months and commuting to Loja and then move to Loja?
  Lada Nivas are assembled in Ecuador. I don't know if that makes them better or worse than those in Russia. They are cheap here and i've heard a couple of bad comments in the general sense about them - people disparaging the quality of cars assembled here and in LA as compared to real imports. On the other hand I looked up a forum of comments of used car owners in the UK - without exception all praised the mighty Lada Niva :-)
   If the dollar is dropped here in favor of the New Sucre all prices will crash - people will get scorched and be hurting like swatted flies - there would be a firesale of property and consumer goods as people strove to cling on financially. Others say it can't happen but I don't underestimate the negligence which LA presidents can manifest in their handling of all matters economic.
 You might want to consider living on the coast for a while - same climate as Cali. Near to Manta (mid-sized city) are several beautiful little fishing towns, few tourists but still some. And close enough to Manta for all you need from a city - university, movies, malls etc. Crucita, San Clemente and San Jacinto are the names of the towns, Crucita being the biggest.
  One of the International Living associates called Gary Scott is running a course here in mid February - you might be interested in what he has to say about property in Ecuador. Its a bit ra-ra but good info....
************************************************************************************************************************
Dear International Living Reader,

My wife Merri's and my mantra for the past 36 years has
been, "the sun is always shining somewhere." There are
always places where you can make a fortune, live better for
half the price, and enjoy cool but sunny weather almost
every day... places like Ecuador.

And guess what? This nation is so tiny and has been so poor
for so long that some amazing facts and opportunities have
been missed by the local and national press.

Let me share a few of these things about Ecuador here and
show you why there is special opportunity right now.

Though the majority of Ecuador's population is poor, this
poverty combined with a national abundance of natural
resources offers an exotic lifestyle with personal services
(maids, gardeners, cooks, etc.) that we in North America
and Europe have forgotten exist. Even those with $1,000 to
$2,000 a month income can live like a king.

There are two special ways to reap very rich rewards in
Ecuador I call "taking advantage of the ups and downs and
the pockets".

For example: a couple of years ago we discovered a pocket
of cozy, beachfront properties that were selling for $5,000
each. Then the economy dropped and the owner wanted to sell
them in a hurry at $2,500. We took a group of readers and
16 of them bought on the spot. These lots now sell for over
$20,000!

Another "pocket" on the coast developed when the government
put in a new road that ran right along the coastline and
replaced an inland highway. Landowners did not realize
right away what this new accessible Pacific-view real
estate was worth. One 25-acre plot we stumbled across was
for sale at $12,000. As you can imagine, this didn't last
long.

Just outside Quito we discovered a pocket of subsidized,
brand-new houses for $800 each that really were nice. We
rushed a group there.

Those who have joined us on these and previous trips have
already made fortunes and enjoyed enormous opportunities.
Now there is another special "pocket" developing that I
believe will be a huge opportunity. Let me explain why.

 When we first took friends to Ecuador in 1996 there were
five short-term problems: an energy shortage, an upcoming
Presidential election, the failure of several Ecuadorian
banks, a stock market crash, and worst of all, an armed
conflict over border disputes between Ecuador and Peru.

We felt then that each of these problems, if resolved,
could cause the real estate market in Ecuador to take off
like a skyrocket. With this in mind we took hundreds of
readers to Ecuador.

Timing could not have been better. The groups were
overwhelmed on the trip and we were flooded with letters
and calls telling us that this was the best trip we have
ever conducted. They loved the hotels, the low, low prices
and most of all, many made more money than they ever
imagined.

Some of those who originally journeyed there with us
doubled their investments there in less than 18 months.

Then Ecuador crashed again.

Three terribly corrupt politicians became President in a
row. These men were so bad that everything seemed to fall
apart at once. Two huge volcanoes erupted, El Nino poured
torrential rains wiping out bridges, and roads, ruining
crops, all the banks shut down, there was a banana war
(Ecuador is the largest banana exporter in the world), the
shrimp industry was devastated by a disease called White
Spot (Ecuador is the second largest shrimp producer in the
world), the stock market nearly dissolved, the country even
ran out of gas (even though it is the second largest
producer of oil in South America). Things seemed in ruins
until the last of these three bad Presidents was ousted in
a bloodless coup.

This created plenty of bad press about Ecuador.

But the secret is that we found these disasters created
even greater bargains. The crash made the exotic lifestyles
even less expensive for anyone with a little cash. Real
estate prices dropped so low that many of the readers we
brought to Ecuador bought condos and land on the spot.
Several returned to buy huge tracts of land, lakefront
estates for $60 an acre, oceanfront lots for as low as
$2,500, and hotel sites on the beach at under $10,000 an
acre. Merri and I personally felt like kids in a candy shop
and bought a hacienda with 860 acres of land.

Then the country dollarized. When the U.S. dollar became
the official currency in Ecuador, there was a period of
euphoria. Prices rose and I haven't been taking tours there
for the last two years.

The new "pocket" I am excited about has formed because the
new President (who appears to be a good man) is in office
and he has really been working to turn just one area, Old
Quito, into a special place.

Prices are really low. For example, our friend who has been
researching Quito property down there for us found a house
on one acre with an incredible view of the entire city for
$2,500. Here is what he wrote: "Found a place today that is
about an acre with a view of the Old City to kill for, and
they want $2,500. You have to walk up 122 steps to get to
it, but that is cheap."

If you prefer not to walk, we have unearthed an entire
block of renovated condos for $17,000.

There are properties for even less as our friend pointed
out when he wrote, "Gary & Merri! Hello from the land of
MANY opportunities! I saw at least a dozen houses
yesterday, so many I lost count. I took many photos. We
will go back Tuesday to see more houses. There was a new
listing in today's newspaper for $8K house. There are loads
of places to buy in the $6,000 to $45,000 range."

If you want to move upscale, there is even a castle for
sale, the Castle of St. John... It is the DEAL...  Best
property for the dollars there.

There are many 400-year-old houses that were magnificent
and can be again, because the President in Ecuador has set
up a special council that will make ten-year interest free
loans so you can renovate these houses.

Yet the press has not caught on. No one except
International Living and me are writing about the
opportunities in Ecuador. We have been working hand in hand
because the dollarization has brought inflation down. Roads
are being improved, tax collections are up. National
industries are being privatized and a new oil pipeline has
been built. Plus an important U.S. military base has been
added to the country bringing a flow of money into Ecuador.
Perhaps most important: Ecuador and Peru signed a peace
treaty ending decades of military tension, and a new
airport is being constructed for the capital city of
Quito.

Things everywhere in Ecuador are looking up! Opportunity is
even greater in this exotic adventure that is less than
four hours from the U.S.A. This is a fun, inexpensive,
wonderful country to visit and even to live in during the
winter or full time. In the mountains the temperature
ranges from 45 degrees Fahrenheit at night to 75 degrees
Fahrenheit during most of the year.

I have been amazed at how many of the delegates who visited
Ecuador with us have said they never felt better. Many
return again and again or move here to stay.

So I invite you to join Merri and me for our next journey
into Ecuador, February 13-15, when we will learn how to
live and do business in Ecuador plus inspect Old Quito
property for sale.
************************************************************************************************************************

did anyone read down to here? :-)

I've met Gary Scott and went on his course last year. Anyone who wants more info can drop me a line at Steve@latin-women-gold.com

Steve
www.latin-women-gold.com

[Cali vet]

... in response to Saludos from Guayaquil, posted by Cali vet on Nov 28, 2003

Ecuadorans are definately more conservative than Colombians and this really shows in a place like Guayaquil where with it's hot steamy weather you'd expect provacotive costena or Cali style dress with super low hip huggers and lots of naked midriff. Not so at all. We didn't see any chicas dressed like that, just regular jeans and shirts to the waist. Unrelated: I had it in my head that being a port city there was a large black population more predominant even than in Cali. Also not so, mostly looked like an Indian-European mix. In the downtown area where we spent our time the safety factor is really impressive. There are police every block and every store seems to have it's own armed security so you're never very far from an armed authority of some kind. And the people were out in droves day and night. Along 9 De Octubre the main drag I estimated there were at least two to three hundred people per block counting both sides of the street at seven in the evening including some obvious foriegners. A situation like that in Cali would have you holding on tight to your wallet but there all was mellow. Back to women I gotta say I was struck by how I imediately started seeing quantities of pretty girls as soon as we got off the plane back in Cali then through the bus terminal and from the taxi window on the ride home. I don't get it and it ain't logical but this city sure does seem to have the market cornered.

[Ralph]

... in response to Guayaquil, follow up comments, posted by Cali vet on Nov 29, 2003

I think you sort of hinted at why Cali seems to have hotter women. Part of it is the dress. Sure there are beautiful women in Cali but the way they dress is a big part of it. For many of the girls, if you take away skin tight hip huggers, bare midriff shirts and the prerequisite bra that is atleast 2 sizes too small so her boobs are almost falling out, many of these girls are more average looking.

Cities like Cali and Rio get a reputation for hot women and it sort of self propogates. I heard a quote a while back that the omen in Rio aren't really the hottest in the world, it is just that they hear that so often that they carry themselves as if they are.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Guayaquil, follow up comments, posted by Ralph on Nov 30, 2003

Ralph,
Attention to appearance might have alot to do with it.But if you do some agency web site surfing I think you have to agree the Cali Girls look better.Or is it better looking ones are interseted in meeting foriegn guys?Both I think.

Pete

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: Re: Guayaquil, follow up comments, posted by Pete E on Nov 30, 2003

Photos on an agency website mean nothing. Women in Cali have been exposed to agencies and there is less of a stigma in joining an agency.

Attention to appearance will make a difference, but many latinas pay a great deal of attention. Most latinas dress more conservatively than Calenas. Face it a 7 in painted on jeans and her boobs hanging out of her midriff shirt becomes a 9 pretty quickly.

Have ya ever been to Hooters? There are an awful lot of "ok" looking girls getting drooled over because of their outfits.

I have seen tons of beautiful women in Brazil. If you look at brazilian agency websites, you would get the idea that Brazilian girls are not as attractive. You get a much different
idea in person.

Browse websites and look for venezuelan women. Venezuelan women have an even bigger reputation for being beautiful. They win Miss Universe more than anybody. The women on agency sites are more average looking because many women will not join agencies.

The women I saw on the streets in Monterrey, Guadalajara, Rio, Sao Paulo, Santo Domingo, Santiago and Mexico city were better looking on average than the women you see online from those countries.

Visit Brazil. Visit Venezuela, and then comment on actual first hand experience. Don't make blanket comments about Cali women being hotter based on agency photos.

In fact many Colombianos will tell you medellin women are hotter than calenas, there just aren't as many agencies.

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Guayaquil, follow up comment..., posted by Ralph on Dec 1, 2003

AGAIN!!!

I am happy to report that I have seen plenty of Caleñas butt naked and soaking wet and they still look hot. No the clothes can't make a 7 into a 9. But I have seen a 9 take her clothes off and turn into a 10!!!

You are right about one thing. Many Colombianos will tell you that women from Medellin are the most beautiful. I just don't happen to agree with them. Do you?? In general I think a colombianos taste in women is a bit different than the average americano.

I live in Phoenix were A Foreign Affair is located. They mostly do tours to Russia. But I placed some ads for them in Cali, Barranquilla, Bogota and Cartagena before they decided to open up an office in Cartagena. Why Colombia? Well they put ads all over Brasil and they even went to Sao Palo and Rio. They just couldn't get the kind of interest that they got in Colombia. These guys even broke down and started handing out flyers at street corners to the women and couldn't get any thing going.

I happen to believe from pictures that I have seen that there are a lot of beautiful women in Brasil. But, if the beautiful ones are unwilling to join an agency, answer a newspaper ad or go to a party to meet american men, WHAT GOOD ARE THEY? to the average guy that can't spend a lot of time in their country to meet them.

In Cali you have a good combination BEAUTY and DESIRE. And, when you think about it what good is one without the other.

[cancunhound]

... in response to No, Ralph You got it wrong......., posted by Calipro on Dec 1, 2003

An observation I made while staying at the Decameron near Santa Marta:  It was overwhelming that Caleñas are percieved as the sexiest.  The hotel guests were 99% Colombians - equally representing Bogota, Medellin & Cali.  At the nightly shows it was all about audience participation - with emphasis on having fun with the gals like mock beauty pageants and stuff.  The Caleñas drew overwhelming envy (and awards).

Oddly enough, seems like in Cali however the Caleños prefer the fair-skinned paisas.

[Ralph]

... in response to No, Ralph You got it wrong......., posted by Calipro on Dec 1, 2003

In cali you have a much better idea what the body will look like naked than say in Lima, Quito or even Bogota. There are probably tons of hot bodies covered up more conservatively in other cities.

Yes the clothes can make a 7 a 9. Ever see guys drooling over 7s in Hooters? Most hooters girls don't even get a second look from me in street clothes. Ever see a stripper go home for the night or show up for work in sweats, no make up and no 7" F me pumps? Notice a difference? I bet you do;-)

I hate to dredge up your photos again, but I didn't see any 10s. A few 7s and 8s, but the guys here all drooled like they were 11s;-) Guys are suckers for a bare midriff and boobs hanging out. Painted on jeans as well.

If Pete said women with more desire to meet gringos.. . . More of an agency scene etc etc etc, he would be accurate. Both he and dallas steve constantly say Cali has more women and more beautiful women than anywhere in the world. My point was, one needs to actually see other countries and date women from other countries to make such blanket comments. Going by agency photos does not give one a good idea of what women are like in different countries.

Go to Isla Margarita in Venezuela, and tell me the women aren't really hot;-)

[Pete E]

... in response to Nope, posted by Ralph on Dec 1, 2003

Its both.To me the women are better looking than anyplace I have seen.I think Medellin and Venizuella mught be in the same catagory but we don't know much about them because few guys go there.Bogota might come in third,there are nice looking women on the web sites.But if you put good looking and available together I think Cali Has it hands down.
But I am going from my experience in cali and my observation of guys reports and web sites elsewhere.I haven't seen it all.I never been to Rome.How do I know its there?Its consistent with all he other imformation I see.
Of course we like to justify our choices.
I'm not from Missouri,but I still say show me.

Pete

[Calipro]

... in response to Nope, posted by Ralph on Dec 1, 2003

I certainly don't think venezuelan women are unattractive. The Isla Margarita sounds good. I hear a lot of colombianas go there on vacation(:-0

Is it true???

Ralph,

Just keep writing about boobs and tight pants. If I didn't know any better, I would think you were trying to get all the guys (that read this board) to visit CALI!!!

[HeyNow]

... in response to Yep!, posted by Calipro on Dec 1, 2003

Calipro,
 Interesting post about the agency trying to get a Brazil tour going.  I think you made a good point.  Yes, there are beautiful women there but, they aren't real crazy about leaving.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Yep!, posted by HeyNow on Dec 1, 2003

And how picky are they even if you will stay in Brazil?
We don't really know.But we do know about Cali,so untill someone can shows us the market is even remotely close,most of us will go for the known quantity,where we know most of these girls really want to meet you and do not expect someone their own age.
Its supply and demand.The supply is high in CAli,the demand not really.So # 1 place for chicas untill someone can show us differently.Which would require they know a better place,which is very unlikely because it probably does not exist.
Again,its supply of good looking women who really want to meet even your average guy.And if you are above average you
are really in the happy hunting ground.
Let me get more specific.I'm 60,think I look 50,so I search sites looking for girls who will consider 50.They are there,right down to 23 in Cali.And most of them will stretch beyond what they say.My 43 year old friend,who shopped alot before marrying his wife,now 22,says pay no attention to what they say in their profiles.There are lots of girls who want you.
So,prove us wrong guys,find a better place.
In the meantime,we will report from Cali.Not only the best looking girls but the most motivated girls.

Pete