Another Perspective in Paradise

[Cherinha]

Umm.... Don't take this in a negative way, however I do disagree with Bigbm on several things, and not only from the below post "Looks like Poo Poo in paradise". Some I will mention at this time.(I posted this below, but it got lost below in the format...)

Most know this, but I will mention that the Brazilian Reais money is at 2.87 (changes daily)-to $1.00 US Dollar.

I do live in Brazil, and have some knowledge in this area. It took me 2 weeks to get a "land-line" telephone in my apartment. (From 1st call to working) After a $100 Reais deposit, and $75 Reais install fee from the Telephonica, personal reference, and the $75 Reais install fee for the land-line into the condominio Apartment... we had a phone. It runs about(without extra fees) $40 Reais a month. Not bad.

I have a cell phone from VIVO, that cost $200 Reais for the phone and I use the Pre-pay system. It is about 1.30 minute for all calls, and 1.05 for VIVO to VIVO phone.

Also, your conclusion that "nobody on this list has any idea about how lively and how voracious the appetite is in Brazil." Wrong. You should do a little research before doing the "open mouth insert entire body routine." Some could be offended easily by some of your remarks! Please try a little courtesy. Let's not generalize here, shall we. You, and I, and so many others love Brazil. And so many see it in a different way. Brazil is humongous!!! It's amazing!!! One statistic in one area will not apply to another area. You know this. This is not so different from the rest of the world.

I have found that if you want to promote your ideas, and enthusiasm about an idea, person, place or thing... that it is best done constructively, and not destructively.

And finally, don't knock the way people call games... football, futbol??? It is true Brazilians are fanatic about the games.... why... they are good.... REALLY good. The record stands!! You don't need to defend them... or put down another nation to do so...they don't need your help in this regard. But thanks anyway. (I am American and pretty darn proud of it!!!-We aren't perfect, in many ways, but I have many respect and pride for my nation, as well for others!!)

Some of your posts on Brasil were great... I am interested and would like to read more of these kinds of posts.
Peace,
Cheryl

[bigbdm4]

... in response to Another Perspective in Paradise, posted by Cherinha on Oct 17, 2003

It is great to see this posting.  I am very happy to be wrong about saying there is nobody on this list who knows about Brazil.  

Yes, since the telephone company was privitized and bought by a Spanish consortium, the speed of service and the cost has improved.  But I still hear stories like when you dial your mother's number, the neighbor's phone rings, and not your mother's.  This actually happened to somebody we know.  But Cheryl is right.  

And I wanted to say that I will try to be more positive in the future, even about futbol, although I am sorry that it never really caught on here in the USA, and the USA has a great team!  The only game they lost in the last World Cup was to Germany, who only lost to Brazil in the final game.

In my own defense, I was the only person who was interested in Brazil on another list, years ago, and all the postings from guys going to those agencies where you would walk into a room full of almost naked women who were total strangers, and that sort of stuff, which really was revolting to me, well, I hope enough has been said about that.

Finally, it's nice to know I have some company in my passion for Brazil, from another American, even if she is from Utah and not Colorado, like me.

Obrigado.  Yo-Yo Ma has a new album of Brazilian music called "Obrigado Brazil".  Way cool!

Big B

[fencer]

... in response to Another Perspective in Paradise, posted by Cherinha on Oct 17, 2003

It reminds me of the original meaning of 'enthusiasm' which was more akin to religious fervor than its present meaning of a strong liking for something. I guess some people want to lead us to the promised land, or drag us there kicking and screaming if we won't go willingly.

Regarding Brazil, I read some info saying pretty much for any business transaction - buying a car, opening a bank account, renting an apartment etc a person needed a Brazilian identity number (what they call it I can't remember). The article made it seem you couldn't get very far in Brazil without it ie much more restrictive than just making it hard to find a job there.

Can I ask how you are getting set up in an apartment etc? Is this number the essential in Brazil or are there ways around the requirement (people turning a blind eye) or do you have friends who can 'front' for you, like sign papers in their name.

Don't mean to pry, any light you can shed is appreciated.

Fencer

[Cherinha]

... in response to question about Brazil, posted by fencer on Oct 17, 2003

Well... You can open a bank account with only your passport, get a CPF (Cadastro de Pessoas Fisicas)-tax id, get shopping credit cards, Brazilian bank credit card, cell phones, setup your Utilities, etc.  There are many other things here that require alot of additional paper work.

The Brazilian Identity for "strangers" is the (RNE).(For Brazilians it is the RG). You will need to present your passport, visa approval, local utility bills, birthcertificate, finger prints- taken at the Policia Federal (Federal Police). You will be able to do more things with this... like get a brazilian driver's license Licenca para Estrangeiros)instead of use your international drivers license.... amount other things.

If you were interested in heading down here, I could answer additional questions, or provide additional information.

I don't need to lead "or drag us there kicking and screaming if we won't go willingly"... no need. South American is amazing, whether you go to Brazil, Colombia, Ven., Argy, Peru, Equ., etc. etc. Have you seen... not only my posts ... but the posts of so many that have 'enthusiasm' about SA?

Hope I helped!!! Peace, Cheryl

[fencer]

... in response to Re: question about Brazil, posted by Cherinha on Oct 18, 2003

Cheryl, thanks for the info.

I've been thinking of moving South so hearing other people's experience is certainly motivating. But maybe it takes the right person with the right attitude which comes through in your posts. I wouldn't stand a chance going there cold turkey and looking for a job and I don't want to work for someone else, so I'm working on a web retail business. The great thing is most of it can be handled remotely like the system administration via cohosting and even order fulfillment can be handed off to a third party at low cost. If I manage to get it going then I can leave for Brazil (or Argentina...) and manage it via ssh etc. Well that's the theory...I figure with the cost of living being much lower in SA if I clear US$20K which would be a business failure in the US but in another country it would be a modest success.

(PS my comment about enthusiasm was meant more in way of agreement with what you wrote that "promoting" a place is best done constructively. I didn't mean to imply that your enthusiasm was over the top etc)

[pablo]

... in response to Re: Re: question about Brazil, posted by fencer on Oct 18, 2003


Nice post Fencer,

Welcome to the board.  I hope you are able take the plunge and head down south.  Your business plan sounds like a good idea and hope it is successful.  

I am with you in your thinking about living in one of those countries.  Like Caleb and Joshua reporting back that they found the "promised land", Cherinha and Bueller posts about Brasil have more than wetted my appetite about going the expat route and follow in their footsteps. Not a slam on the good ol' USA, but I don't want to be in this "desert" too much longer.

Having been to Argentina, I can attest that it is an awesome country.  Do an archive search and you will find some informative posts.  If you do go to Argentina be sure to check out Mendoza. Then again, we might all meet up together in Brasil one day and have a toast.  Your place B or yours C?  Keep in touch and keep posting.

Pablo

[fencer]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: question about Brazil, posted by pablo on Oct 18, 2003

Pablo, thanks for the welcome aboard, though I've been reading posts on and off now for some time.

I remember your excellent trip report to Argentina - I thought you'd hit the home run there - and was really hoping things were going to work out: by some theory of equivalence if some 'out of the movies' sequence can happen to someone else maybe it can happen to me.

Regarding going the expatriate route the New York Times had an  interesting profile of an American living in Ecuador, married to an Ecuadorean woman. He had solved the problem of how to make money as an expat by selling Indian textiles like rugs on Ebay. He goes round the Indian market each week and buys stuff he thinks is hot or getting fashionable in the States then auctions it. He seemed to have a good feel for the market, his wares being authentic is part of the selling point. He said he was pulling down about US$1200 a month which puts him near the top on the income distribution ladder in Ecuador ie it afforded him a pretty good lifestyle all for 20 hours work a week including shipping the stuff to the States. The life of Riley. I think maybe a business like this selling Stateside avoids the red tape hassles and other hassles of actually running a business in SA that Traveller documented.

Not to beat up on the good'ol US of A like you say, but it seems like there are some serious economic changes afoot here with all the outsourcing/offshoring etc picking up steam (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EJ08Df03.html), not to mention the other deserts here which this board addresses. The idea of a reverse emigration of expats in the opposite direction makes me kind of chuckle. Well, for me the idea of moving is all talk right now. I'll definitely post again if I pull it off, sooner hopefully than later.

Ciao

[pablo]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: question about Brazil, posted by fencer on Oct 19, 2003


Hi Fencer,

I did see that you have been around for awhile here on the board but because you had not posted very often I thought a late welcome was better than none.  It's nice to acknowledge new positive posters.  I was just trying to be neighborly and want people to feel more at ease when they contribute.  It sure makes for a more interesting and varied discussion board when we get more people posting.  

Thanks for your condolences regarding the young relationship that later fizzled with that one Portena after my return home.  She actually did me a favor helping me see that we were too different people and it would not have worked.  I don't regret going though for one second.  I visited places I had never been before, met some great people and now call some of them friends.  I only wish that I could have seen more of that interesting and beautiful country.  I hope to return to see the Falls and Patagonia one day.

It's difficult traveling to a foreign country in search of a special relationship.  I've thought a lot about this and decided that for me it will take living in the country of destination to find "the" special one.  I've been to five foreign countries looking for this lady.  I've met some very nice women in each country but have just not yet felt Cupid's arrow hit the mark.  Call me cautious or picky but having been through a divorce I don't want to go through another one.  Not being able to travel as frequently to SA as I want, moving I felt was the best option.

I did a lot of soul searching and struggling in the past before deciding to go the expat route mainly because I have two wonderful children ages 17 and 12 that live with their mother.  When I go, I won't have the opportunity to see them as often but fortunately they would come live with me in the summer.  It's been six years now since my divorce and honestly, I miss the closeness of a special lady in my life.  I live in a relatively small town and frankly I'm not interested in any of the women here.  It's like comparing apples to oranges anyway because once you experience some wonderful Latinas in your life you are never the same.  

My children know about my desire to find a foreign wife and even support me in this decision.  I'm in the process of selling my business and if this occurs, I will be moving to Brasil.  Some might think I am going through a mid-life crisis, but others I think envy me.  If they only knew what was involved in a move like this they might consider me a little crazy instead.  I just feel that if I don't move now I will never do it.  Once there I'll have all that time to really learn the culture, the language (yea Pimsleur), not to forget meeting all those wonderful ladies.  I do know this, it sure will be a completely new chapter in my life.  I'm thankful others have gone before me as it gives me the courage to do the same.  My hat's off to Cherinha, Bueller, Alteno, Denver Mike, JimC, Cali Vet (have I missed any?) and soon Pete and perhaps Iswote, for being southbound trailblazers.

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: question about Brazi..., posted by pablo on Oct 20, 2003

You sure your kids will spend the summers with you? Your X will have to sign papers for them to leave the USA. Even if you two get along OK (at least on the kid issues) she still might (in good faith) think it's too dangerous or too expensive for them to go there and refuse to sign. Or if you don't get along, she might refuse to sign the travel documents out of spite.....I'm not saying don't go, just be SURE of the arrangements for seeing your children, get it in writing, maybe even consider having a lawyer add it as an ammendment, that you both agree to, to your child custody decree.

[pablo]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: question about B..., posted by Michael B on Oct 20, 2003


Thanks Michael,

Your suggestions are good ones.  Agreed, best to get it in writing.  I'm still working on the kids passports.

Pablo

[Cherinha]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: question about Brazil, posted by fencer on Oct 19, 2003

Well fencer... that sounds like a great approach and idea!!!  From my experience in this area... which is basically "0",(the ex-pat E-bay route)...  it looks like it would work great!!!  I would be interested if anyone on this board had any inside on taxes, and how that would work legally etc.  

Ok... I guess your left to this approach... that has been mentioned by so many of these posters so wisely.  "Get on down there!!!"

I believe it is wise to come down... take a look around... get a feel if this is right FOR YOU first!!  You never know what oppurtunity could be waiting for you.  And with $480-620 round trip...

Let me know when your heading down this way... or any of you others, and I'd be glad to show you the "ropes" down here.  I'd love to help!!!  South America is amazing, but I chose Brazil... and love it!!!