Maybe I was terribly wrong

[Pete E]

Ok ,my wife finally got home and we talked about it.
Maybe I was wrong I will let you guys judge.
Jim,looks like you are right again.I needed to talk to her not you guys.But I thought I had talked to her and the story I had recieved to that point,as I understood it,could only be a lie.I was frustrated and I had 4 wine coolers and started saying more and more.
Here was the story.First of all my wife has been very distant for about 3 months.There is no sex as well as no kisses or hugs.It just got much worse.The marriage has rarely been good and it just gotten worse and worse.Friends have asked me do you think she has a boy friend?I have said no,I don't think so.Most of them are much more suspicious than me.One of them even said at a recent party,you just don't even exist to her.She is totally not intersted in you.He was right.And its  hard to take because she is a lively fun person who is interseted in everyone else but me.
OK,so Sunday night  night the phone rings,its a guy,she is talking to him.I hear her say "Papi".I thought for a miniute it was her father,but then the person called here,we always call Colombia.I don't think I am normally a suspicious person,but my antenna went up.I picked up the other phone.I feel totally justified in doing that.I heard her saying Papi and also mi amor,which I already new what that meant.
When she got off the phone I said who was that?She says why? I say because you were calling him papi and mi amor.She says nooo.I say my ears are working fine.I heard you say that.She continues to deny she even said it.
We go to bed.I wake up at 3.00 AM and can't sleep, thinking about it.
When I get up I say we need to talk.I say I definetly heard you say Papi and mi amor.She  denies it again at first,then comes up with a story.She said she was telling the guy that she calls her son Papi and mi amor,which is true.I say thats a very clever answer,but I don't believe you.We kind of leave it at that and she goes to work.I start thinking,what is the chance that she just happened to be telling that guy that she calls her son papi and mi amor,in these few miniutes,while it sounds to me like she is saying it directly to him.
I think no f--king way.Nobody would believe that.You have to also understand that she has been caught in bold face lies that she eventually admitted to our counsoler.I can't believe what she says on its own because she has so blatantly lied to me before.
So I write her this letter and give it to her at her work.
I then answered some close friends who posted here,and started saying more and more in my responses to what people said to me.Somewhat like our thoughts about beenthere I had  4 wine coolers and got to where I was willing to say more than I should have I guess.
Ok ,she comes home at 10.15,she gets off work at 8.00.But she did have this coffee table she bought,she went and picked it up supposedly from this guy or a friend.
She says we need to talk.I say,yes,we do,I would love to talk.
Her spy friends have already called her to tell her what I said.She is  very upset because I posted.I kind of lose it at this point and tell her I don't give a sh!t if she doesn't like it because she is a f--king liar.I  intended to not get in a yelling match,but we did real fast.Then she comes out with a 3rd story,this one  much more believable.She said she was talking to this guys son and was saying papi and mi amor to him.Today the story is it was a 14 year old boy family member.I may be in denial,but I actually believed this story and thought I made a huge mistake.I was listening and the voice was small.I thought this guy is real quiet.Maybe it was a kid.She said I don't have a boyfriend.I think thats true,but to the point of getting the rest of the story I could conclude nothing but that she did.Maybe I'm still in denial.I want to believe her.
We were still yelling at each other at this point.I am saying you are a liar,she is saying you are so rude,both being true I think.
Her biggest complaint is sometimes I yell at her.I know is counterproductive but I just get angry.I feel so used and abused.I have given her,her son and her family so much and I get treated like I don't exist.Yes,I get am angry about it,and it comes out sometimes.Its always a reaction to how she has treated me.When things are good,which is very rare,I am the most loving guy in the world.
Ok,so she calls her mom in Colombia to tell her what an as-hole I am and I think maybe she is right.I asked  my step son,do you think I'm wrong.He says yes.
So I am thinking I made a big mistake,mostly through a misunderstanding.
Bottom line it probably makes little difference.She admitted at our last session with the counsoler she had no feelings for me and it wasn't likely to change.It seemed like the truth was finally told.I think she was unwilling to admit that untill she got her permanent residency.
I have to settle some things that will take about 3 months and I will probably be gone.I am just going to move to Panama or Colombia.Nobody can touch my pension,so I can get by OK.I just can't handle the other alternatives.I can't stay in this marriage as it is and I will not stay here if we divorce.My head is not in to my work and really won't be if we go through a divorce.I have just dug myself a financial hole here by refinancing my house 3 times and spending the money.We spend $9000 a month and I'm not keeping up.Unless this relationship was to miraculously improve my head is just not where it needs to be.If I had a good marriage I could do so much better.I could probably make $200,000 -$300,000 a year if I had a loving wife and my head was in the right place.
So,on this issue,I think I was wrong,it was a misunderstanding.I thought I had all the imformation.I have more now but even though she seems to speak good english now things just keep coming out showing me I didn't understand,and neither did she.
I now think she does not have a boyfriend.I never really thought that before but my understanding of what just happened would let  me conclude nothing else.I'm glad,that would have been very hard for me to handle.I just want us to be civil to each other untill we split.
My wife hates me posting here.I have tried not to say anything personal,and if things were good you would hear only good.But there not good at all and sometimes it just comes out.Jim one thing you were wrong about is I do not have a good thing going,not at all.But I still think she is basically a good person and wish so much she loved me,because I have always loved her.
This list means alot to me but I would give it up for her if things were at all good.But they are not,so I'm not giving this up.Its important to me.I need to be able to talk about it.You guys will be hearing alot more in the future as my life changes.

Pete

[zack]

... in response to Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by Pete E on Sep 30, 2003

Pete,

I have been busy working so I printed your post and read it several times at work. I am very sorry about what you are going through. I have never been married but I know how it feels to be in a relationship with an emotionally distant woman.

Hang in there. You are in my prayers. As for advice, everyone has given you that already. Just remember that there are A LOT of beautiful, sincere, kind-hearted women in Colombia. She is not worth your tears, all things considered.

zack

[Ralph]

... in response to Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by Pete E on Sep 30, 2003

I remember on LWL reading about your engagement and marriage. I remember early on in the relationship your asking about lack of sex and lack of affection. Many gave advice. I was probably amongst the more "blunt". I felt then and still feel that most Latinas wear their hearts on their sleeve. Lack of affection from a Latina is a big warning sign.

I remember you guys went for counseling and it seemed you felt she didn't "really" love you romantically but she was a good woman of good character and you did all you could to make it work. I do think there was more than a fair share of "rationalizing" along the way.

From what I remember it seemd like she thought you were a good man, good husband, good father etc, but was not romantically in love with you. I have posted recently how that type of relationship would not appeal to me, but I respect you a million percent for doing all you can to make it work.

Many times if a woman winds up married to a man she respects, cares about, but maybe doesn't love, because she realizes it is best for her her kids future, down the road she will sometimes grow to resent the man. She might resent the fact that she "needs" him. She might resent the fact that he has never given her a real reason not to truely love him. She may resent the fact that she is in a "loveless" marriage etc. It certainly sounds as if things have spiraled downward a bit, and it could be because of the resentment.

You have some tough decisions up ahead. Only you can make those decisions so take all that is written with a grain of salt.

If you do wind up getting divorced, take some time off for YOU. Enjoy being single for a while. Don't rush into anything. Wait till you meet a great girl that makes you want to marry HER!

I was going to follow my own advice after my ex left, but wound up meeting a great girl a few months later. So I am also guilty of "do as I say". I tried to take things really slow, and a friend pointed out that I was playing it cool, because of my concerns and issues, not because of anything she did.

We've also never met, but you are one of the most well liked guys here. You have done way more than you can ever imagine to help others. You have always been very truthful and open, even if it hurt I know some might not agree with that approach, but all must respect you for doing so.

So take some time and think about YOU first. You deserve it!

[Pete E]

... in response to Sorry to hear, posted by Ralph on Oct 1, 2003

Ralph,
Thanks.You remember.You are right.I was tolerating by not ending a situation that I never ever thought I would be tolerating.But I just didn't want to let her go.Foolish heart.If you would have told me I would ever do that I would say no way.There is a huge difference between what we think and say and what we will sometimes do.Dallas Steve pointed this out to someone who was critisisignwhat he said vs what he did.Its not hypocritical neccessarily.One is a intellectial idealistic thing,the other is charged with emotions and desires and fears.
It is actually much worse than it looked with the counsoler,who was a nice lady but pretty poor in this situation.A more astute person would have said,listen,she doesn't love you.But she bought Rocio's claim she loved me.She can be very charming in a very real way.Its not phony but it can be used to hide the truth,her greatest enemy.The truth eventually came out.Much later and very much to my wifes advantage.Might be a mal practice case here,but I won't put any energy in that.
But its much worse than I thougt.I knew she didn't love me.But she doesn't respect me and also seems to resent me a great deal.I think its because she was doing something she didn't really want to do and hated that she had to do it but was not willing to be honest because it could cost her.
So I became a figure of resentment.Some of the stories people have opened up and told me recently  border on hate.
You can give a person so much but if it becomes a trap for them they can hate you for it.
But then we always set our own traps and the hate is also at ourself for doing it.

Pete

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: Sorry to hear, posted by Pete E on Oct 1, 2003

I doubt the resentment was there in the beginning. In the beginning she probably had a lot of respect for you and "cared" about you. She probably thought she could live life without "true romance" if it was best for her and her child etc.

After a few years, it probably became tougher and she wanst something she knows she would never have with you, so she now resents you.

The ironic and sad part is years from now, when the relationship is a distant memory, I think the resentment will be gone and she will be thankful for all you have done for her etc.

Hopefully many will have learned from your "lesson" and I think you certainly have. Next time around, settle for nothing less than a woman that is crazy about you!!!!

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by Pete E on Sep 30, 2003

Pete,
You're one of the good guys.  Hang in there and best of luck to you.
Mike
P.S. I went through pretty much the same about this time last year with my ex, so I feel for you.

[david hagar]

... in response to Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by Pete E on Sep 30, 2003

Did you have a prenuptial aggreement?  If so did she have her attorney and you yours and was it in both English and Spanish to that, if you had such a docuement, that it could easily be understood by the other party in her native language?

Beattledog

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by david hagar on Oct 1, 2003

No prenup.I'm my circumstances and with California law it would be no help that I know of.
I have or had 2 important assets.My house and my pension.
California law says increase in value in the house is community property.The house went up a small amount,most of the appreciation happened before I married her.Plus I pulled about $325,000 out of it in refinances since we married,so the net worth went down.There was a big decrease in net worth.
My pension is protected by federal law and cannot be touched,maybe only by the IRS if I had an issue with them.
My income is my other potential asset.But a good income has not even kept me even with what we spend.So why work when I can live on the beach in Latin America with my $40,000 pension.My efforts here,a constant struggle,did not bring me happiness.Like I said I could make alot of money if I had the support of a good wife and my head in to it.There are I would guess maybe 50 realtors here making $1,000,000 plus a year.I'm not in that group,but I could be $200,000 -$300,000.I admit to some laziness and alot of distraction,like now.My tendency,even before I met my wife was to make $100,000 and take the rest of he year off.
There are probably 200 loan brokers making $500,000 plus this year.One of my friends,who I never considered a heavy hitter has grossed over $800,000 so far this year.I should have done loans,which I am licensed to do,but I hate paperwork and wasn't really motivated to work that hard.The question would just keep popping up in my head,Why?The answer could have been for a loving wife,but I didn't have one.
So she is kind of killing the goose that laid the golden egg here.But it was probably all she could stand to try and keep it together to get her permanent residency.
A prenup would not help to my knowledge in situation.But guys who already have big assets need to spell them out in a prenup.Everybody should check it out to see if it could help.
Reminds me of Ken Norton Jr.,who was a linebacker for the 49 ers and lived about 10 miles from me.His father was Ken Norton sr.,the former heavy weight boxing champion.They had a huge parting of the ways when Ken jr did not take Ken sr.s advice to get a pre nup.They din't speak for years.Eventually Ken jr.s wife got them to patch up their relationship.Looks like Ken jr got a good woman,but you never know for sure so you need to protect yourself.
Did I diverge enough?

Pete

[lswote]

... in response to Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by Pete E on Sep 30, 2003

Pete, I have to ask you about one thing.  You have always spoken as your wife as a good person.  When you tell your story about meeting her you always mention that you saw her character to be good from the start.  But the way I see it, what is happening with you now doesn't indicate very good character on your wife's part.  The best of people can change and find that that their desires are different, but it appears from what you are saying that your wife never had any honest interest or desire for the marriage in the first place other than the benefits it afforded her.  Were you mistaken about her character all this time or do you still feel she is a good person and that the circumstances somehow justify her behavior?

I frankly think the mark of character is to be faithful to yourself, friends and loved ones even when the chips are down and frankly you haven't related much in the way of showing your wife to be faithful to you in any way even when the chips were up.

I consider myself your friend and have a great respect for you so please don't take my question in the wrong light.  I just don't see how your wife is the good woman you painted her to be.  Even if you were in denial about certain aspects of the relationship and failed to fully examine it, the bottom line is that good people don't willingly take advantage of other people.

[Cherinha]

... in response to Re: Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by lswote on Oct 1, 2003

hmmm... Iswote has a very good point.  It is difficult to make a comment about her character for me, or if she is a good person, or her actions with out knowing the whole story or the 2 sides of the fence, and without knowing you or her personally.  However... Lieing, and continued lieing is not a good characteristic.

It is terrible for anyone to go through some thing like this. I feel bad that you have to go through this, and I hope that this situation will improve quickly.  Good luck, Cheryl

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by lswote on Oct 1, 2003

Bruce,
Yes,I still think she is basically a good person.I made her an offer that was good enough to take even if she didn't love me.She said she had the best of intentions.What she did was smart if not ethical.We all have a tendency to rationalize our behavior.
So giving her the benefit of the doubt,which some of my friends think is crazy,she went in to a marriage with a man she did not yet love hoping it could be love.It was a huge opportunity for her and her son.I have gotten feedback in the last 2 days that could justify the opinion of blatant opportunist from the start.The truth is probably somewhere in between.
But its really my fault.I was the one that should have taken the time to be sure she loved me.If she did love me she could have been a super wife.I not only love her but like so many things about her.
So I think her character is good enough had she loved me.Those are the biggees.Character and do they love you.
Screw up on either one you got big trouble.Either one alone is not enough.

Pete

[Seeker]

... in response to Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by Pete E on Sep 30, 2003

Pete,
I'm very grateful for your consistent and sensible contributions to this forum. You're someone on this forum that I trust and your posts played a key role in encouraging me to take the "risk" of going to Cali for the first time this year. I'm sorry to hear about your current situation. However, even in these trying times, you serve as an inspiration. Your attitude is one of persevearance and determination and I admire you for this. I've always thought, what is the worse that could happen if I fall in love with someone from Colombia, marry her and bring her to the U.S? I've concluded that it would be a divorce a few years later. Nevertheless, as you're so courageously demonstrating, it is better to love and fail, then to never have loved at all. I hope that if I ever find myself in your shoes, I will be as honest with this forum, but more importantly, as resilient to continue on in my journey of finding a loving partner. I've never seen such an outpouring of support for someone on this forum like I'm seeing for you today. This is no coincidence, but rather a reflection of the many people you've supported, encouraged and have inspired for so long. I hope the aftermath of this storm in your life, clears the way for a mutually loving and eternal relationship. You deserve the best!

[senge]

... in response to Re: Maybe I was terribly wrong, posted by Seeker on Oct 1, 2003

Does that mean its okay to make poor decisions in choosing a partner (based on sex, not character), rush prematurely into a marriage, and then critize the woman because things (of course) didn't work out?

I'm not criticizing Pete at all, but I would like Pete to mention why he chose this particular woman to marry, what is her background, what is the age difference, and how long he knew her before marrying her.

Once again, I am seeing a trend with many posters here of making poor decisions and then complaining about the obvious outcome (unlike Cali vet who seems to make calculated, yet poor decisions, but is honest and at peace about the poor chance of success with his marriages).

[Pete E]

... in response to better to love and fail?, posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003

Thats what my father used to tell me.Yes I made poor choices.And I really knew it from early on if I had really faced it.Red flags were all over.They almost always are in a problem situation.But a guy in love can choose to ignore them.
And I guess you could see critisizm of my wife in my story.But basically it was my own fault.I did it to me.I take the resposibilty with the pain.
Because my wife hates for me to post anything negative,you guysw have gotten a one sided story,accentuation the possitive,avoiding the negative.
I still believe in this process.Failure is not inevitable even with big age differences.Enough of my friends and alot of people here prove that.But you sure can screw up if you are not carefull.So I have been supportive of guys choosing a latina while my own situation was not really working.I don't think its hypocritical,but certainly I gave the wrong impression about my situation to those that didn't already know better.

Two of my friends really took the time to find their wife.One guy went once a month for 3 years.Another spent several months at a time there.Thats not easy for most guys.So if you can't live there or do what these guys did an option might be to take your chances but end it early if you make a mistake.Thats what I said I would do,defending my quick decision.But I couldn't,or didn't.I just didn't want to give up on her.It was very stupid,but thats what I did.

Pete

[lswote]

... in response to better to love and fail?, posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003

I think you mean Calipro, not Cali vet.