I wonder...

[senge]

[This message has been edited by senge]

So many of you guys are divorced or divorcing.  Why is this happening? Is it the nature of Latin women?  If so, why not just deal with American women?  How much worse can it be?  Is it that you are choosing women who are too young for you?  Is it that you are marrying too quickly?

I am really curious as to why there are so many failed relationships here.

[luvslife]

... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003

Many of the men do not spend enough time with the ladies  to get to know what they are really like.  They fall for the idea of a wonderful Latin wife and not the woman they are involved with.  They ignore signs that she may be in it for something other than love, or real friendship.  She puts on her best face while he is in town.  When he leaves she goes back to her regular life.  The woman on the other hand never gets to see the man in his home environment.  Each time she sees him in Colombia he is on a vacation of sorts, spending, and going out, and having a good time.  All she sees is the money.  She has an image of the life she is going to have in the US.  She decides to latch on to the host because it appears like good careers move for her.  Many ladies are selling themselves out of their situation.  When they get here the closer the man's life style is to what she has in mind the longer she stays.  If it is not money, money honey, she starts looking for something else.  She starts to count the days until she gets her papers so she can get out without going back.  She meets other Latin people and begins to network.  She has a bunch of input from people that don't give a darn about her, and she believes everything she hears.  There is a saying, amor de lejos es para pendejos.  One has to know how to handle the snake or get bit.

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003

Fair question, senge.  Your observation that there are so many divorces may be skewed by some recent events.  However, it is my suspicion that marriages between men from western countries and foreign-born ladies have a higher failure rate than conventional AM/AW marriages despite the agencies' hype about the traditional nature of the ladies and their simple expectations of both marriage and their husbands.

I can only offer my opinions as as one who has chosen poorly and failed once before in my search for a wife.  (My ex-wife is from Rep. of Georgia, part of the FSU, but the same issues and considerations remain wherever one is seeking a bride.  Presently, I'm dating a great girl from Brazil living here in the US - she may still want a green card but at least I know that she isn't just trying to get a fiance visa and plane ticket from me.)  Therefore, take my opinions for whatever they may be worth, knowing that I've been burned previously.  

I think that for one to make the commitment to marry a woman from another country and culture, a guy has to be able to make a certain leap of faith about her motives or intentions.  The guy who can't stop looking for the red flag that will confirm his nagging doubts never gets to a commitment point.  For the most part, I think that many guys who are drawn to these ladies are optimists and romantics and idealists in their nature (which is not a bad thing), because this is certainly not a route that pragmatics would take given the risks and expenses involved.  As an optimist, a guy is generally focusing on her positives, and as a romantic he is willing to overlook her flaws.  No doubt, a few of us have ended up with ladies who are a bit out of our leagues, myself included.

As for the ladies, far too many are willing to marry a guy who they don't feel that strongly about, with the idea that even if it doesn't work out they still have the green card to show for it.  These women aren't scammers in the true sense of the word, but their motives are less than pure nonetheless.  There are many others who undergo personality changes after they live here for a time, and become dissatisfied with the lifestyles that we can provide them here.  (Again, forget about agency hype about "all they realy want is a nice guy who holds a steady job and doesn't drink or beat them up" BS from the agencies.)  Too many ladies are quick to look to trade up from their husbands, particularly if there is a large age gap involved.

Another thing that mucks up the process is that too many women are putting pressure on the guys to commit quickly, before either side really knows the other.  I have found that foreign-born ladies want to know that there are pretty serious intentions on the guy's part from the outset of the relationship or else they won't waste much time on him.

One thing about latin ladies that I have discovered - everything seems to be magnified and heightened with them.  Women from all cultures are more emotional than men.  But with Latinas, it is a never-ending emotional roller coaster ride.  The highs are higher and the lows are lower, which can be both exilarating and exhausting at the same time.

Would I marry a foreign-born lady again?  Yes, but will only consider a Latina - I do believe that they are more sincere in their feelings.  I'll take my time for certain.  Candidly, my new Brazilian girlfriend has everything that I could want or hope for in a wife, but there is an 18-year age difference between us so I plan to take my time.    

[Brassa]

... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003

Women are women, Men are men, People are people wherever you go. That might sound irrelevant to your post but it really is the point when you think it through.

[zack]

... in response to I wonder..., posted by senge on Oct 1, 2003

I wish someone kept statistics about the divorce rate in America vs the foreign bride marriages. If the latter has a higher divorce rate, I would bet money that it is mostly due to marrying too quickly. I am amazed at how many men I have seen who get married within a few weeks after meeting a latina.

Zack

[anzo]

... in response to Re: I wonder..., posted by zack on Oct 1, 2003

I married my Russian 10 years ago after knowing her for several months.
Beautiful, talented lady. Also a very expensive escort. But we stayed
together 7 years, mostly because of her daughter. Had I known her
longer...no way. I just found out that a lovely Calena I dated, but then let
go because of our age difference (she fibbed about her age by 5 years
and for me 27 years is too much) has agreed to marry a Nortamericano
after 3 weeks. He is in way too much of a hurry and she is a lot naive.
Her family is very upset, she's leaving her university (which I paid for)
and I can just sense the train wreck coming. And I'm rather angry about
it. I don't care what guys tell me about their latest, perfect fit, we were
meant for each other BS...3 weeks ain't enough time, and probably not 3
months if you don't see each other most every day. Give it time, guys.

Anzo

[Calipro]

... in response to absolutely, posted by anzo on Oct 1, 2003

So, why are you angry about it? You dumped her, right?

[zack]

... in response to absolutely, posted by anzo on Oct 1, 2003

You said that three months isn't even enough time if you don't see eachother very often. Agreed, and I'll go further and say that at least a year is best if you don't see eachother very often. Many guys would disagree with me on this one, especially since these long distance relationships are hard enough as it is. But one man put it this way: "The most miserable people are not single people who wish they were married. The most miserable people are married people who realize that their marriage was a mistake." I couldn't agree with him more. Why not go slow and play it safe? A one-year investment is nothing compared to the life-long return.

I told my novia that I want to date her at least a year before I marry her. She didn't like hearing that, and I didn't like saying it. But if love is there, she will wait. It is best to bite the bullet and play it safe. The last thing I want to screw up in my life is marriage.

Zack

[Jeff S]

... in response to absolutely, posted by anzo on Oct 1, 2003

What's the big rush? I really don't understand it. Supposedly mature, intelligent men take a couple week vacation in an exotic land where they meet a beautiful but poor girl who's excited about the prospects of moving to the wonderous land they see on TV every day, and then think they have all of the ingredients of a long term relationship. You hear all sorts of "but I knew we were soul mates," nonsense that sound more like 13 year old girls talking. If you are really soul mates, you still will be, after another year or two.

It seems to me that most of the divorce stories I've read on all three of these boards contain in them a line that goes something like this: "I had no idea what she was really like." Duh! That's the biggest problem we all face when looking overseas for a wife. What's she REALLY like over the long haul. I believe you only find out with extensive time together, not just holding hands, walking on the beach in the moonlight, but in all sorts of everyday stuations, stressful or not, good or bad, alone and in crowds, with family and with strangers, before you can really tell.

How many posts have we all seen that start out, "I'm a newby and want to know how long it will take and how much it will cost..." Hey, this isn't about the fastest and cheapest way to get past an unpleasant task - like traffic school - it's about finding, wooing and marrying the love of your life - someone who, as senge said, you can grow old together with. Someone who will change your diapers and spoon feed you your geritol when you start unraveling.

I admit I'm a bit unusual of the posters here because I married someone who was about my same age, and we spent about 13 weeks together over 2 1/2 years before getting married. Even then, there were plenty of surprises, and plenty to learn, and plenty of language and cultural barriers to overcome. It wasn't easy, probably a whole lot more work than setting out to find a good AW - but hey, it was worth it.

As Dennis Miller says, of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

- Jeff

[Starman]

... in response to AMEN!, posted by Jeff S on Oct 1, 2003

I agree completely. Your first questions should not be related to the actual process of getting the women over here and getting married as fast as possible. That sounds like you are actually trying to order a bride.

We should be more concerned with ourselves first, what our motivations are, what her motivations are, the risks, realistic expectations, etc.

So far, the entire process with my fiancée has taken almost a year, with many visits, e-mails, phone calls (once a day or more), dealing with many problems and in doing so we get to know the real person. Thinks like character, work ethic, morals, etc. Finally, she will be here on the fiancée visa on the 17th of Oct. The whole process has really helped each of us grow as a person and as friends and lovers. It was been very stressful, physically, emotionally and financially. But I do it again in a heartbeat.

Also luck as something to do with it, but don't count on it.

Basically, it is up to you to make it happen, making good, sound decisions to being the person you should be. Mostly common sense.

Ultimately we hopefully learn from our mistakes.

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: AMEN!, posted by Starman on Oct 1, 2003

I am not trying to be a wet blanket here. I just want to point out that getting married or bringing her over on a K1 is not the end of the process, but rather the beginning.

With my ex, we spent a lot of time together. Over the course of  
over a year of "courtship", I traveled to her country over 15 times. I called everyday, usually more than once. There were also emails etc. I met all of her family, she met my mom etc.
I was and am absolutely sure her intentions were good and she loved me to death. . . . .and it still didn't last. Even if we think we do all we can, there is still an element of luck.

The hard part starts when they get here.

[zack]

... in response to Finally?, posted by Ralph on Oct 1, 2003

That is true. We all know of some couples who dated for 5 to 10 years prior to marriage and still ended up divorced. Nothing is guaranteed. But going slow will at least minimize your chances of marrying the wrong woman.

Zack

[Calipro]

... in response to Re: Finally?, posted by zack on Oct 1, 2003

Just find one that knocks your socks off and roll the dice.
You can't win if you don't play. It's all a crap shoot!

[Jeff S]

... in response to Finally?, posted by Ralph on Oct 1, 2003

Being married has its own challenges, irrespective of how good your intentions are in the beginning.

Luck? Maybe, but I believe love is something you do, every day, not something you find or fall into. Both parties have to really want it, on an ongoing basis.

- Jeff

[zack]

... in response to AMEN!, posted by Jeff S on Oct 1, 2003

"I had no idea what she was really like" Duh!

No Sh%t!!! You only dated a few weeks! I wanted to slap some sense into the many men who have told me that.

Kudos to you for biting the bullet and waiting 2 1/2 years before getting married. You are now reaping the rewards.
Good things come to those who wait. Good luck.

Zack