Financial "help" expectations

[Jersey Mike]

Lately, I've been casually dating a young lady in her early 20's from Brazil living here in the states.  Although we have many nationalities of latin people living around the NYC area, I seem to continually meet Brazilian women, as they are very friendly and approachable.  (For some reason, I seem to constantly meet FSU women around here, too.)  Over the past dozen years or so (except while I was married), I've dated several Brazilian women living here in NYC/NJ area, including living with one Brazilian lady for a few years.

Without engaging in stereotypes or generalizations, I have noticed a few common patterns with these ladies.  For one thing, I believe that Brazilian women, more than the other latin cultures, truly accept large age differences with men.  Every single Brazilian women I have dated has told me that they have had MUCH older boyfriends in their pasts, often when they were very young.  I'm talking about the women dating men in their late 30's/early 40's when the women were 20 or 18 or 16 years old.  It's not that I am looking for this kind of age gap, but it seems that Brazilian women in their late 20's truly think nothing for a man to be 10-15 years their senior and it's not just agency hype.

A second recurring theme amongst the women seems to be that there are 10-12 single women for every single man in Brazil.  Maybe this helps to explain the acceptance of age differences.  I have heard woman after woman say this, and while it cannot possibly be entirely true, it sure does conjur up some nice images.  (Then again, if you go to an after-work happy hour on Friday afternoons around here in NYC/NJ, you'd swear there were 10 men for every attractive single woman!)

A final thing that has struck me is that most of the Brazilian women I have known will talk about old boyfriends or other male friends and how much they have "helped" them in the past.  And by "help", of course, they are referring to financial assistance of some sort.  No - they weren't asking for money exactly, but it is clear that they appreciate, and to a certain degree, expect a boyfriend to "help" them out, often substantially.  From some of these stories, these guys dropped some serious coin on these ladies, and have nothing to show for it.

Maybe I'm just a cheap S.O.B., but unless I'm married (or at least engaged) to a woman, I am not about to start buying her a car or paying her rent or helping her to start a business or pay her medical bills.  Yet I have heard of guys doing all of these things and more, and their Brazilian ladies still left them in the end.  And yet, I have not found the Brazilian ladies to be overly materialistic either.

[fishtiger]

... in response to Financial "help" expectations, posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 18, 2003

Mike
What is your take on the FSU women you met in NYC and how much does USA change them?  Why do you think so many of them seem to have failed marriages in USA? I can understand the Russian bride problem and the man not really knowing them til after the marriage, but how do you see the problem?

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Your  NYC FSU Opinion Wanted  Attn: Jers..., posted by fishtiger on Aug 19, 2003

[This message has been edited by Jersey Mike]

Alright, this might incur the wrath of the guys from the eastern European board, but here's my take on FSU women.  The combination of FSU culture and ethics with good ol' American marketing and materialism creates a monster that exhibits the most negative attributes of AW -  multiplied by a factor of 10.  My impression of the FSU is that lying and deceipt and manipulation have become completely institutionalized and are basic survival skills there, and have been for many generations now.  It is a short leap for an FSU woman to use a man through marriage for personal gain of some sort.  I believe that many FSU women enter into marriage with the intention to "trade up" at the first opportunity.

I met my ex from the FSU when she was here only two months and barely spoke English.  At the time, my ex was one of the sweetest, most good-hearted women I've ever met, but she has unfortunately changed for the worse in the 4 1/2 years I have known her, and so have all of her friends.  My wife and her friends have all grown to be more manipulative and money hungry, and it's a shame because I think they were probably so nice when they were still living in their country.  Among almost 2 dozen of her friends, only 1 has a successful AM/RW marriage that is still intact.  I have recently learned that several of her friends are married both in their native republic and also married here for papers.

Soapbox time: One thing that angers me is that I have met so many FSU people living here who have a complete disdain and contempt for our system, laws, rules, culture, and way of life.  It's especially annoying when they are living here and benefiting economically.  One reason the western economic system works well, compared to much of the rest of the world, is that it is dependent upon a basic intrinsic honesty of most humans who are willing to work within the economic and legal system to better themselves.  In the Soviet/FSU system, success was dictated by one's ability to circumvent or bribe the system.  Our system unfortunately makes for an easy mark when mass numbers of these individuals are entering the with sole intention of conning, defrauding and abusing the system.  Case in point is the recent 600-person indictment in Suffolk County, NY, centering around a Brooklyn-based insurance fraud ring consisting of Russian nationals.

[burbuja2]

... in response to Re: Your  NYC FSU Opinion Wanted  Attn: ..., posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 19, 2003

You'd know that you can't trust the Russians.

[stefang]

... in response to Re: Your  NYC FSU Opinion Wanted  Attn: ..., posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 19, 2003

And we will pay in higher insurance premiums they should deport the people that did this.

[markxport]

... in response to Re: Re: Your  NYC FSU Opinion Wanted  At..., posted by stefang on Aug 19, 2003

Hello Stefang,

If they are not US citizens and they are convicted of a felony they will be deported after serving their sentence.

Take care,

Mark

[lswote]

... in response to Re: Re: Your  NYC FSU Opinion Wanted  At..., posted by stefang on Aug 19, 2003

Or after years of employment you have your group health insurance at work canceled because premiums are too high and you can't get private insurance and take a huge financial hit if anything health related happens.

[mudd]

... in response to Financial "help" expectations, posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 18, 2003

i dont blame you for being a "cheap" SOB, what idiot would give a lot of money to a girlfriend, so she can pay off her bills. unless your married to her, why would you do it. maybe if you have a lot of extra cash to throw around. i think they figure were all rich, or at least richer than them, so they feel YOU should spread the wealth but i dont think i have ever heard of a women droping some serious coin to help out her boyfriend.

another idea might be that since they are dating such older men than themselves, that an older man will have extra money to waste. its like a kid in high school trying to date a girl at his level, when she is  dating a guy who finished college, has a good job, a car and is making money, a little hard to compete with that. just a thought.

[pablo]

... in response to Financial "help" expectations, posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 18, 2003


Hi Mike,

Maybe Cherinha could shed some light on those numbers but they sound a little skewed to me.  Where did all them Brazilian dudes go I wonder.  I would also be curious if she would concur about the age differences there.  It seemed that way also in Colombia.

It is interesting as we both had an interest in RW and now LW.

Suerte,

Pablo

[cancunhound]

... in response to 10-12 to one., posted by pablo on Aug 18, 2003

Funny how one of the big agency ploys is "women in city xxx outnumber the men by gazillion to one", especially the US middleman operations.  You can find the actual census counts posted on the web for most cities in LA.

In Cali, I did find one interesting statistic that would however account for slight male/female ratios.  Check these homicide stats out for year 2000 in Cali:

------------------------------------------------------
Homicidios comunes según edad y género de la víctima      
Edad/género   H   M

Total        1,870     93

0 - 10        10     2

10 - 19        329     16

20 - 29        728     38

30 - 39        442     18

40 - 49        242     11

50 - 59        81     3

60 - 64        15     2

64+        23     3

FUENTE : Epidemiología de la Violencia / Secretaría de Gobierno      
   
-------------------------------------------------------

Wow!  Conclusion, looks pretty good for women in Cali - but a man - better buy a bullet proof vest according to those stats.  They even go further and break out the deaths by day of week and time of day - conclusion there is STAY at home on Friday, traffic deaths and murder odds are not in your favor!

[Pete E]

... in response to The numbers myth, posted by cancunhound on Aug 19, 2003

Of course the population statistics are not 10 to one,but the opportunities for a gringo may be way better than that.
There may be 6000 women on the agency books in Cali.I bet at any one time there are not more than 20-30 gringos there looking for women.So the effective rate of available women is 200-300 to one.Of course you are gone in 2 weeks probably,so over the long haul her odds could go up alot.If the guys cycle through Cali 20 times a year it makes her odds maybe 10-15 to one.And there are flashy and more likely to be trouble women who meet alot of guys and also alot of good girls who get no attention at all.
Statistics don't even start to tell the story.Women are much more available to gringos than here ,by a huge factor.Not even remotely close.You have to experience it to believe it.

Pete

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to The numbers myth, posted by cancunhound on Aug 19, 2003

I don't mean to mislead anyone into thinking that this 10/1 ratio of women-to-men actually does exist.  But the perception among the women is that it does.  It seems funny that so many of the women (from Colombia, as well as Brazil) seem to have the same general perception the the odds are stacked so steeply against them, and lends some insight as to why they are so much more appreciative of the attention we give them.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: The numbers myth, posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 19, 2003

Just like  of the perception of most guys here,the odds are against us.So to switch to a market where the odds are for us is a big time improvement.
A little math.If the odds are 10-1 against us here and 10-1 against women there,the improvement by changing markets is 100 -1.This will drive statistical people crazy,but thats what it feels like,100 times improvement.The bottom line is to have the choice of many attractive woman you could probably never have here.So when you look at never or no way compared to yes you can have what you want maybe 100-1 doesn't even do it justice.If your chance for such a woman is zero here lots of chances there make the odds infinetly better.
We are talking quantity with quality here.Without the quality we seek quantity means nothing.Quantity you can get here,just lower your exectations alot.When you throw in the quality factor the difference is astounding,mind blowing,died and gone to heaven,happy hunting ground.
Of course you have to be carefull your quality girl is not a big problem in the making.But without the quality why bother anyway?
Admitedly the quality I speak of is mostly in attractiveness,although there are other pluses and minuses.
There is a reason we are hooked on this.

Pete

[Mark33]

... in response to Re: The numbers myth, posted by Jersey Mike on Aug 19, 2003

I think the reason women the world over think there are 10 women or whatever to every man is because contrary to what we want to believe most women like bad boys,and men who are somewhat illusive.
 Though there are actually a very even number of male to female ration worldwide(except China)most women want the man who is very desirable to other women.
  So it does seem that very desirable males have 3-4 females at all times. Which actually means there are a lot of average lonely guys who are getting no attention from females at all. But the women do not focus on these men. They focus on the Romeos.Hence, the myth is born.
   I have always been puzzled about foreign women saying all of their men cheat with numerous women,but the women are Saints.
When I state the women must be just as bad because somebody is cheating with these men, they claim it is because of male shortage.
I wonder if these women were shown actual fact on male to female ratio's  would begin to underdstand they are actually just as guilty as the men when it comes to cheating.
 If there are x amount of men considered cheaters,than a close percentage of the ladies are cheaters too.These ladies need to understand there are no male shortages,and put their foot down when their man cheats,not join them.
I guess that is why most foreign born men come to the U.S. and actually become more respectful. Because the ladies do not put up with that once they are living in the U.S.
      Mark

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Re: Re: The numbers myth, posted by Mark33 on Aug 19, 2003

Great points, Mark.  I agree that women are often very self-delusional about their own attitudes towards relationships.  I recall reading about a poll or study where men and women were asked if they had ever cheated on a wife/girlfriend or husband/boyfriend.  About 50% of the men admitted to cheating, and something like 20% of the women.  Then the two groups were asked more detailed questions.  Seems that many of the women were rather selective in their use of the term "cheating", like not counting it when the woman had mentally broken up with a boyfriend, even though the boyfriend was not yet aware of her decision to end it.  Sex apparently didn't count then.  Neither did the Bill Clinton definition of a "non-sexual act".  Under some scrutiny, the women's numbers went way up - the men's up only slightly.  Turns out that more women had cheated than men.  (And my own personal suspicion is that extremely hot women cheat much more, but it's just a theory.  Maybe I can raise some federal grant money and do a study!)

I totally agree about the women who want bad boys or Romeo types, at least until they've been burned a few times, even though few will admit it.  Although many women claim not to care about looks as much as men do, I've known a couple of good looking guys who always had women throwing themselves at them, and these guys had the personalities of old shoes.  The women didn't seem to care.