Observation: Death of marriage agencies.

[Traveller]

Now this is just my opinion based on having had an agency for a brief time and knowing agency owners and being around guys that use the agencies.
What's going to kill the bed and breakfast marriage agency quicker than anything? You guys who use the agency.
Why? Because a lot of you guys are cheapskates. Now as I said, a lot of you guys, not all of you, I'm sure.
I'll give you some examples. When I had my agency, a guy reserved three weeks in advance. Ok, no problem. At the time we charged $60 a night. This included breakfast and lunch, a nice room, pool, maid service, transport from the airport, internet, and unlimited use of the agency. So, the night the guy comes in we send the taxi down to the airport with all the guy's info and a card with his name. The guy supposedly didn't show. Well, I had to pay the taxi driver out of pocket. The next morning, the guy calls from the Intercontinental and wonders if he can still use our agency for $20. Just one day. So, this guy reserved a room for 10 days. $600, which had no problem with. So, we go from $600 to $20 and he didn't see any problem with that. ESPECIALLY, since he was staying at a $100 a night room at the Inter. and he stayed 10 days. He paid $1,000 for just a room instead of $600 at our place with a bunch of stuff included. Now I have no problem thinks that your prices are too high, but don't reserve a place then not show up because the manager depends on that money and you start making out a budget for bills and what not. Not to mention you buy extra food and supplies because you will have a guest. At least call and cancel before you come. To top everything else off, he called two days before his trip and confirmed he was going to stay at my place. This story is not isolated either. This happens on a fairly regular basis.
Next you have the guys who shows up at an agency off the street and he wants to use the agency's services. The manager quotes $40 a day. The immediate response, "Well, isn't that kind of high? How about $15?" And, a lot of agency owners accept it. But, you can't go to a dry cleaner and haggle price with them. You can't go to WalMart and haggle price, so why should you do it at an agency? You guys have to remember that these agencies have bills to pay, employees to pay, and they have to pay for the periodic promotions to get women into an agency. Why? For you. You guys want all this stuff, you want the women but you don't want to pay for it. Who does it hurt? Ultimatley, your choices and the agencies ability to conduct business.
Another example, I met a guy from England. He came down and met a fine girl. Far better than this guy would get in England. I'll be kind and say this guy wasn't even close to being attractive and he guy a really nice girl. They came to the agreement they would get married. OK. The guy who introduced him to the girl said he would do the VISA paperwork (And he does know how to do it) for $300. They English guy thought that was too much money. Gonzalo does it for $500 and a lot of other places charges a hell of lot more than that. The guy said ok, I'll drop the price to $250, pay me $70 now and pay me the rest when you come back to Cali. The English guy still thought it was too much. Finally, I stepped in and told him to quit being stupid. I told him that didn't he understand he's looking at a bucnh of money to get his bride back to England? There were trips back to Cali, then to Bogota, Hotels, food, then VISA costs, then a trip for two back to England, plus a bunch of other things I can't even think of. Oh this got his attention. I told him that if he is worried about $250 for the Marriage VISA paperwork, he couldn't afford to marry this girl. She found a German guy a few months later and she is living ther now. The guy from England is still single.
I have seen Doctors and Lawyers throw hissy fits over 200 pesos for a taxi ride. You're talking about 8 cents. I have been stiffed on taxi fair by these same guys. I have been stiffed on drinks by some of these guys. For example, I pay the drink one night and the guy says I'll pick up the bill tomorrow night and what happens? Off he goes to Cartagena or Bogota and I never see them again. That has happened to me on 4 seperate occasions
I have seen guys walk into an agency aand want to see the books with the intention of meeting women who happen to walk in.
I have seen guys have one of their female friends go to agency posing as a sister or a relative and say she is missing and say they saw her on their site and wondered what number she left with the agency so her "sister" could contact her. I have seen guys stake out an agency and watch the girls going in. Then when the girl coems out, he acts like he is staying at that agency and intercepts the girl and he invites her to a date and gets her number.
What I am getting at is, if men don't want to pay for the services of an agency and they go out of business, well, don't be surprised. The agencies do need your money to stay open. That is the bottom line. When you try and cheat them, they lose money. 1and 1 is 2. KNow what I mean?

[Cali vet]

... in response to Observation: Death of marriage agencies., posted by Traveller on Aug 5, 2003

Some years ago Latin lifemates was a big operater in the MOB industry. Guys paid $1000 and were told they had access to all the services at one agency in Bogota and two in Cali. Those who opted for the Latin-Internet option in Cali arrived only to find that while they could use the "regular" services of the agency there was a separate book containing the creme-de-la-creme, the really beautifull girls that only those who paid a separate $750 fee to Latin-Internet were allowed to see. A little later Latin Encounters offered a "special membership" allowing use of it's agency in Cali as well as a "sister" agency in Barranquilla. Bob and Maria Del C of B/quilla had no idea thier services were supposed to be granted free without their having ever recieved a peso from Latin Encounters from it's "special membership". How many guys have been charged quadruple the normal taxi fare for "agency" airport pickup. News of these scams and other agency hustles gets out. There are exceptions of course but the majority prey on "newbie" innocence where the real money is to be made and once a guy has been given the hustle he starts to wise up as well he should. It's forums like these that help curtail the excesses.

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Observation: Death of marriage agenc..., posted by Cali vet on Aug 5, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

I've paid for yearly memberships at three places, and a lifetime membership at one place. I even paid for daily rates at two other agencies. I never got ripped off, but I've spent about $1500.00 for all the agency services I have ever needed. I never complained about paying, and I enjoyed the services. However, I won't be spending that kind of money anymore. I can do it on my own. Also, when I cherry picked the TLC party last Christmas, I asked if I could pay a fee to enter the party for one night. The guy told me to lay down the $400.00. If I would have had the room in my bugdet at the time, maybe I would have considered it. But, I didn't do it. I don't like to bargin for cheaper prices for any kind of business. My father and I operate a business, and we get annoyed when customers want decent product, but don't want to pay the market value. So, what we tend to do is keep our prices high, and cater to customers who can afford our goods.

Aaron

[Pete E]

... in response to Excellent Points !!!!!!!!!!! Those were ..., posted by Aaron on Aug 6, 2003

Aaron,
I used to be a car dealer specializing in European cars.I beat everybody's prices.I used to laugh that we cost other dealers more than we ever made.But what do you get when you advertise the lowest prices?The people who want it for even less.I pretty quickly formed opinions about which cultures were the worst barganers.East Indians and Persians followed by asians followed by europeans.Their  idea was if the could haggle with you an hour or so they were bound to save big money.My response was go home and think about it.Just because you want to haggle doesn't mean  do.I used to sell car $3000 under wholesale book and they thought whatever I  was asking should be about $3000 more than I would take.
Tough business.I thoughtI was going to be up to my a-s in cars money and women.The cars I had.The rest,not really.Eventualy we had a slowdown in 1992 and it did us in. We worked had 7 days a week and we went broke.Talk about differnce in fantasy and reality.
I still love cars but would not be a retail dealer again.
Today as a realtor if someone wants my services for less I tell them to go bother someone else.The people who want it for less are more work.They want to chisel on everything.

Pete

[Aaron]

... in response to Calling in the cheapskates, posted by Pete E on Aug 6, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

Then before long the word gets around that you or I have the lower prices, then everyone will expect a deal, even on the top quality goods. You wont make any money like this, thinking to drop prices and make it on volume. It wont work here with most businesses, and it will only work in Colombia IF a gringo has sufficent financial backing here to puchase wholesale, then sale a service retail in Colombia dirt cheap. The volume concept might work because a guy could cater to the people who deperately need a particular service, but can't afford expensive prices. Such as the locals in most Colombian cities. I've been tossing and turning an idea of opening a business in Cali, then branching out in two other cities. My dad is interested, and we have some money to play with. But, he says I need to finish my dissertation first.

We have a garden supply shop. We charge no less than $30 per hanging basket. Some baskets are $75. You should see them. I've seen people, who thought to drop prices and use the volume concept where I live. What happened was that other businesses tried to drop prices lower as competition. What ended up happening was that prices got so low, no one could make money. So people stopped selling product, and businesses closed up. Higher prices are good at the macro level, but bad at the individual level.

Aaron

[Pete E]

... in response to That's right, Pete. , posted by Aaron on Aug 6, 2003

Aaron,
My wifes family has a nursery business in Cali.Plants,potery,ect.
One thing that is amazing is they tell us these outrageous prices for tools.Like $30 for some little hand held plant pruners.We buy them for $6 and send them to them.
I think somebody has got a lock on the supply side of some of these goods.No way they should be that expensive.
But what would worry me is if you undercut them they might decide its cheaper to just take out a hit on you.
I think the safer thing is buy goods there,import to here.My wife buys leather goods very cheap in downtown Cali but I guess they come from Ecuador where they are cheaper still.Import export is an interest I have been meaning to pursue.Big price differences always get my attention.

Pete

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: That's right, Pete. , posted by Pete E on Aug 6, 2003

Pete,

You make valid points. I have a couple of business ideas that are really good. One is an import export idea. The others are businesses based there.

However, I know with one of my ideas, I should expect many competing owners to be jealous, and try to cause harm. It wouldn't be safe, but it would be fun as hell, and I'm willing to risk it. NO !!! It's nothing with narco-trafficking. And the possibility for anything happening would depend on if I will be married by the time, and what my wife would say.

I would tell you more details, but I don't want to let the cat out the bag. If it takes place, I'll let you know.

Aaron

[cancunhound]

... in response to Calling in the cheapskates, posted by Pete E on Aug 6, 2003

-and seems to be echoed throughout the Caribbean, they love American tourists - they save up for vacation, spend money like it's going out of style and are generally a pleasure to deal with.  Now Europeans - reknown for spending their entire vacation nipping at prices and generally being a pain in the arse!  Not bashing Europeans - that's just the rep established there.

[Pete E]

... in response to Reminds me what I was told once in Mexic..., posted by cancunhound on Aug 6, 2003

Had a German guy one time worse than any east Indian.2 hours of whining to sell him a car.Then he was always complaining,thought a 6 year old BMW should be a new BMW.What a pain in the butt.

Pete

[DOMINGUIN]

... in response to Observation: Death of marriage agencies., posted by Traveller on Aug 5, 2003


If an agency doesn't institute a non refundable cancellation charge, then that is poor business.  Of course the customer can refuse to pay the charge form the credit card company, but they have to go through more work.

If a customer tries to chip down the price for just introductions, an agency owner can always say: "I don't blame you for doing your job as a buyer, but the price is such and such and its a firm price."

It seems to me that one of the most important criteria of determining a reasonable client is that they pay a price for a service that enables the seler to make a decent profit. If they are unwillng to pay a price, then they will be a poor client.

I do agree that the sister asking for the missing girl" dodge is chicanery, and unethical.  Staking out an agency, waiting for a girl to come out and hitting on her so the man can possibly avoid an introduction fee strikes me as juvenile behavior, not right, not wrong, but definitely juvenile.  But, I'm saying that from the viewpoint of a 50 year old man.  

Before leaving for Colombia, I was warned that I would be ripped off, taken advantage of because I was a gringo, etc. Possibly, I could have paid less, but I was on the whole extremely happy with the service I got from the agencies and thought that the fees were extremely reasonable.  But, the best piece of advice I got from anybody was from another poster, who emailed me and said: "Colombia is their country, its not The US, you're a guest, do not be arrogant and be extremely polite at all times. Exquisite manners in the end will be advantageous to you."  

And it was easy to be polite, the Colombians I met were terrific.  As I posted before on PL, an employee of an agency office in Bogota called a woman in Cartagena registered with another agency) and arranged an introduction for me, on her time, using the agency phone and for no fee. That came about because I had been polite and above board with her, I had taken the time to thank her several times for her service in arranging introductions (without divulging details of how the meetings with women were going) and yes, I had tipped her.  On the strength of that introduction, I flew to Cartagena and spent parts of 4 wonderful days with that lady.  That would not have happened, without good manners.

[markxport]

... in response to Re: Observation: Death of marriage agenc..., posted by DOMINGUIN on Aug 5, 2003

Your absolutely right, it doesn't cost you a dime to be polite....but the rewards can be infinite....

Take care,

Mark

[Traveller]

... in response to Observation: Death of marriage agencies., posted by Traveller on Aug 5, 2003

As I said, it's not all of the guys on this board. A lot of guys that come down here don't deal with this board. So, I'm not saying everyone who uses this board is a cheapskate. BUT, I have met a lot of guys who use this board and a lot of guys who don't and a lot of them are just a bunch of penny pinching slugs. For example, guys who complain about a 4,000 peso taxi ride for the girl to come to the agency and meet them. I mean, that girl probably makes no income or only makes 4,000 pesos a day. Come on.
So, that is why when some of you guys meet me, I am a bit "standoffish." You know, it's kind of like, "Which one are you? Are you going to be asking me for money tomorrow?."
Now my observation has to do with an agency giving you a good deal and they make good on it. If an agency is getting bad press and you have a personal experiences with the place and they just suck, well then, no it's not a good deal. Whatever it is.
As far as the method of using a marriage agency to find the "right" woman, well, that is just hit and miss and you have to allow yourself enough time to get to know these women before you settle on one. That is what a marriage agency does. It introduces you to women you choose based on a photo in a book and some basic information about her. The agency can't get on a computer and put in yours and hers DNA and come out with a suitbale match. Once you meet a potential bride it is up to you and her to make it work. But, that is what you are paying for, to meet women in a comfortable environment and in the case of the old Crystal Palace, a luxurious environment. If the agency has a whole bunch of no answers or the girl doesn't live there anymore or the girl already got married, etc, etc then that agency isn't recruiting very often and they aren't updating their files which means they aren't doing their part in earning your money. As burbuja2 said, the agencies need to adopt some US practices in business. That is true enough in just about any business down here.
The Middleman is something you should just avoid. It's a ripoff. Marriage agencies are good for the first couple of trips. After you get your bearings, I agree, you don't need them anymore. But, to pay a guy to steer you to a decent agency is wrong. I do say this, if you are going to or did pay a middle man, I think you didn't do your homework on marriage agencies in Colombia. There are plenty of them and you can contact them directly. Ususally, someone at the agency will speak English.
So, in closing, an agency has to give you a good deal and give you good service in order to EARN your money. But, at the same time, if you are willing to use those services, you shouldn't come down here tinking it's the Tijuana Flea Market where everything is negotiable. I think the agencies are at fault as well by changing their prices. If two gringos come into an agency at different times of the day and the agencies price is $40 a day for service and one gringo offers $20 and the agency accpets it, that's wrong. Because the next gringo that comes and doesn't haggle and pays $40, well that's unfair to him. $40 is the stated price. So, why should one guy pay more than another guy for the same service? It should be a uniformed price and that way it's fair to every potential customer, but by accepting less sometimes and other times not, they just screw a guy over once in awhile. I'm just like you guys, if there were a girl I really wanted to meet and the strict price for meeting her was $40, well I'd pay it. So, would you if that could be the future Mrs. Smith. and in that regards, $40 is kind of cheap.
Gotta run,
C-YA

[lswote]

... in response to Observation: Death of marriage agencies., posted by Traveller on Aug 5, 2003

Sounds like the cheapskates and users you are going to have anywhere, not just in the agencies.  You are always going to have your slime balls no matter where you go.  Just a couple weeks ago my wife got a little wakeup call.  She made a lot of friends with the women in the agencies.  One friendship in particular really bothered me because the woman was engaged to this absolute woman chasing jerk who I detested.  Well the woman seemed nice enough but I could never get past the fact that she was marrying this jerk and she just had to know what kind of man he was so it had to mean she wasn't as nice as she appeared as a truly decent woman would have nothing to do with him.  But my wife's opinion prevailed and my wife regularly emailed this woman and shared her experiences about the marriage and visa process with her since we were a couple of months ahead of them in our marriage plans.  This "friendship" continues and finally the other woman gets her visa and is coming to the US and just so happens the guy lives in Key West (it is not JIM C by the way) so my wife's mother who had apparently befriended the woman's mother puts together a CARE package for the woman to bring with her to the US to give my wife Zulma.  So the woman gets here and it happened to coincide with the 4th of July holiday and we drive to Key West to visit the man and woman, get the CARE package and see the fireworks in Key West.  We hook up with them in Key West (I don't know where they live as they had us meet them at a gas station) and watch the fireworks with them.  Well the woman tells my wife the package was in a suitcase that got lost on her way up and the airport hasn't forwarded it yet.  So we return home and then try calling them to find out about the package and in a month's time they haven't returned any of our messages.  The woman hasn't responded to my wife's emails, even though they used to email a couple times a week.  The woman was clearly using my wife to get advice and firsthand info on the marriage and visa process and unfortunately I was right and she was of the same caliber person as the guy I detested.  The jerks and users are everywhere and I think burbujas’ suggestion about adopting standard business practices like requiring a credit card deposit on a room are a lot better hedge against a business going belly up than hoping the character of mankind improves.

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: Observation: Death of marriage agenc..., posted by lswote on Aug 5, 2003

One day the jerk is going to treat her mean. And she's going to call your wife for help. And your wife is going to say "I don't know, my husband doesn't treat me mean, can't help you".

[Georgina]

... in response to Observation: Death of marriage agencies., posted by Traveller on Aug 5, 2003

I think bargaining is getting to be a practice for all gringos even the ones who go to South America just for tourist reasons.

It is a common practice to bargain in South American. People will tell you things cost more because they already know you will bargain and want a lower price.

Many gringos know about this and since many have already being ripped off, they learned the lesson.

I guess some gringos assume that you are given then a high price and you are expecting them to bargain to get a lower price that will meet your price standards anyway.

But I guess there are also cheap gringos going to SA who think that because they are gringos they are going to sweep the woman off their feet.