"Let me take you away from all this" ! ! !

[jim c]

Interesting responses to "It doesn't allways translate"

    Actually I sympathize a little with the girl. I am trying to explain the fantasy and ethnocentrism of the Americans that go to S/A. Most do not understand the life of the women there and assume that they are giving her a better life by marrying her. The men do not necessarily lie about their married future in the US, but most are not clear about it in the begining of a relationship. I was recently dating a school teacher who wanted to live in Miami. She had a visa and two children. I gave her a choice live well in Cali or struggle in Miami. She opted for Cali but yearned for the peace of Miami. But that is another story.

  Some of you obviously think the girl is a green shark. Is she any worse than old guys expecting TRUE LOVE from beautiful young women women because they are american citizens. Is the fantasy any different. I perceive Cali Vet to be the most honest. He understands the motivation of the women and has found a way to deal with it. To go to an agency and expect TRUE LOVE from someone who cannot truely communicate is total denial. You lays down your money and takes your chances. It is a risk and if you lose at least you tried.
    An agency owner once told me he had a prenuptual with his 19 year old bride and if it didn't work out he would send her home with some money and find another. I was recently at a dinner party and was speaking with some Italians one of the wives ( a beautiful, but very religious girl) asked how many times I had been married. I responded three. She stated, "then you are not very lucky with love". I responded, "it depends how you look at it".   I really believe that those who accept that relationships may not be forever, have the best attitude "enjoy it while it lasts", anything else in this quest is pure fantasy. So don't whine.

entonces jimc

PS Cali Vet  maybe he knew how to say the right things and also let her keep her paycheck.

[Mark33]

... in response to "Let me take you away from all this..., posted by jim c on Jul 15, 2003

Jim,
     I agree there are many in denial. Yes, the old guy expecting true love from a beautiful young girl may be fooling himself,but some women have to understand they cannot marry a man solely for a green card or a better life.
   Life day in and day out with a man you do not love bocomes work.After awhile she will begin to get aggrevated with everything the husband  does.  Nothing will be good enough and the relationship becomes a lot of work for the couple.
  Sex is a chore for her,and getting her to consent becomes work for him also. The only time sex or affection will be initiated by her will be when she needs something.She may stay, because she has no education or no other option. But if he is lucky,she will leave in 2 years and not ask for much.
   Now,if a woman truly loves a man,she will struggle alongside him no matter what. Because being without her true love is not an alternative for a woman  in love.
    My parents struggled together to provide us. My mother went to work 5 days a week,as my father did. Plus took care of us,did the housecleaning and everything else. Her 2 sisters married well and never had to work,had the best homes,furs,cars,vacations.
   Mom never went on a cruise,never went to  Europe, or the Carribbean,but instead went camping on our vacations,and we have tons of great memories and films  from that.
  She never had diamonds,rubies, or expensive furs, but cherishes her Anniversary ring from dad that cost a few hundred dollars. She drove us around in an old station wagon and thought it was good enough .
  But my mom loved my father and never complained,or resented the fact he did not provide the "cushy" life her sisters had.She never felt "entitled".She also knew how to put my grandmother(her mother) in place when she would try to belittle dad. I can honestly say my parents marriage has more love than her sisters or any marriages ever could.
     Mark
   
 
 

[Cali vet]

... in response to "Let me take you away from all this..., posted by jim c on Jul 15, 2003

Jim C

The Puerto Rican? Yes no doubt and all in the spiffiest Spanish. I think if you told just about any agency girl in Cali, you can have a visa and live in Miami with a native Spanish speaking man she'd think she'd died and gone to heaven. A little heavy handed maybe but really, that plus cash flow seems to pretty well wrap up their "American Dream". Not knocking the girl in your story though. Every relationship has two sides and I've certainly met some odd-balls over the last few years at the agencies (who knows, maybe they said the same about me).

[jim c]

... in response to Re: "Let me take you away from all ..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 15, 2003

You met oddballs? In an Agency? I can't believe that!!! How could that be? It can get really strange particularly after hours. When the "members" exchange notes and ask each other advice.Talk about a leaderdog school. Well, I am sure you have experienced the phenomonen. jim c

[lswote]

... in response to "Let me take you away from all this..., posted by jim c on Jul 15, 2003

I respect your right to your opinion, but you are taking the position of the cynic who doesn't believe anything truly good can happen so he just makes the best of what he can get.

While I admit when I went to Colombia, I didn't understand the life of the women there, I have gone to great efforts to learn about it and to try to understand what makes my wife tick.  I think you can't lump any of us into any one group.  There are guys here who expect their wife to conform to life in America, there are guys who are bending over backwards to try to understand their mates, and there are guys who mostly view the relationship in terms of how hot the woman is and don't even give a lot of thought to the rest.

I know part of what you are doing is being the devil's advocate and presenting an alternate viewpoint so that the discussion doesn't get lopsided with one point of view.  But I would ask you to remember that you are stating aspects of your opinion as if they were forgone conclusions that the rest of us are too delusional or unwilling to see.  You are stating as fact that looking for a lifetime relationship is pure fantasy and TRUE LOVE with someone you cannot communicate with is total denial.  Well that is just your opinion Jim.  Actually I think that if you expect TRUE LOVE from someone you cannot communicate with it means you must be willing to work on the relationship until you CAN communicate.  AND by having gone through the struggle with that other person to arrive at that place where you CAN communicate, you share an appreciation of how truly special what you have is.

I don’t agree with your theory or attitude concerning this issue but unlike you I don’t think you are crazy or in denial for having your opinion.  I just think you are being cynical which is largely a choice and which you are entitled to.

[jim c]

... in response to Re: "Let me take you away from all ..., posted by lswote on Jul 15, 2003

Hey Izzy

    Yes, my favorite style is the being devils advocate and I love sarcasm. I write on this forum for fun, to enjoy the repartee and humor in a way which some might perceive as twisted. "Should I pay her taxi fare or does that make her a shark?". Seeing this question after three years here, is a little boreing as well as bizaar. I can't b=tchslap the idiot, Sooooo once in a while I step up to the plate and hit a few to the outfield and sometimes to the wayoutfield. I don't claim to have the scoop on anything and it is not my place to decree who is sane or crazy, but I like the repartee and outrageous responses of some of our members.

When I wax poetic on this forum I use the word YOU in the plural sense. When I pick someone out, I usually name them, unless I am trying to be subtle which doesn't happen very often. I am by nature a cynic, Being a former police detective, I have very few illusions about the inherent goodness of man.( women included ) But I am a gentleman and defer to others the right to believe what they wish. Hell I live in Key West the most bizaar town in the USA. I am just not into others sniveling and  whining after avoiding and evadeing a reality that was right in front of their face. Sympathy is not a currency that I have a lot of. Yet, when I read and write here I am usually smiling.

  I give every lemming here, the right to jump off any cliff they wish. I am, but an old cassandra,issuing the warnings of fate and destruction due to come to us all.
You are always welcome in my home JIM

PS  I actually miss houndog, isn't that twisted?

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Re: "Let me take you away from all ..., posted by lswote on Jul 15, 2003

Bruce,
I read Jim's comments to be cautionary rather than cynical.  It is probably something that most of us would rather not admit to ourselves, but for many of the women we will meet and marry, love is less of a priority than the physical and financial security and material comforts we can provide them and their children.  This doesn't make a woman to be a scammer, but we should open our eyes to her motives.  It doesn't pay to oversell ourselves or our financial position to a woman for this very reason.

Realistically, how much can we truly come to know someone during the course of an international, long-distance, limited contact, limited communication, cross-cultural, cross-generational (if there are large age differences) courtship?  Even if we manage to sift out the scammers and sharks, I am convinced that some guys will bring women over who are basically decent and good, but who will ultimately be disappointed by the lifestyle we can provide her and will leave.  We can do everything right and still be wrong, and it ends up being a crapshoot.

Denvermike said below, "One of the good things about this forum, you can find out the experiences of others and the reality of marrying a foreign woman.  It is not always positive!  Be prepared."  Amen to that - there are no truer words.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: "Let me take you away from all ..., posted by lswote on Jul 15, 2003

And Jim, yes, there CAN be true love with someone you can't totally communicate with. Look at how many AM/AW relationships fall apart because of bad communications - and that's with both parties speaking English!

In my marriage the mis-communications have been frequent,  sometimes hilarious, sometimes frustrating, sometimes even sparking angry confrontations. We still, after 18 years, don't always understand what each other is saying. That doesn't mean that there's any less love than if whe both spoke the same native language. What matters is a willingness to work things through when it matters and look the other way when it doesn't. Perhaps you're slightly better off if you speak the same language, but that's obviously not a guarantee of success, just as not speaking the same language is a guarantee of failure.

Face it - we all have taken the path less traveled. I read a lot of posts about seeking brides here or there is because of the similarities to Americans - language, religion, culture, whatever. In my own case I was looking for something different, very different - language, culture, religion, outlook on life, upbringing, dreams, attitudes on marriage, and as Robert Frost so aptly described... and that has made all the difference.

- Jeff

[Turner]

... in response to Well said, Bruce., posted by Jeff S on Jul 15, 2003

good post...nt

[HeyNow]

... in response to Well said, Bruce., posted by Jeff S on Jul 15, 2003

I agree but, I still believe true love is somewhat rare.  You guys that found it are truly blessed.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Well said, Bruce., posted by HeyNow on Jul 15, 2003

Are you a valley guy? (saw your Ventura Blvd post below) I'm on the opposite side of town - OC, in surf city.

Anyway, here's something I wrote a while back in response to a post about "finding" love: http://planet-love.com/wwwboard/asian/archives/display.php?archive=000128&id=41362

I'd like to think it's not luck - of course it requires two to tango.

- Jeff

[HeyNow]

... in response to Hey, Heynow, posted by Jeff S on Jul 15, 2003

Yep,
In the valley.  Been in the valley since 1996 when I bought this house.  I was quite fortunate since the real estate prices have gone totally beserk since then.  
I like the post you wrote about love.  When you find it you will have no reservations toward commitment.