A new game: Lets play "where have I been...

[Cali vet]

[This message has been edited by Cali vet]

...in Colombia" I'll start:

Department of Boyaca:
   Tunja
   Villa De Leiva
   Zipiquira

Caldas:
   Maizales
   Termales Santa Rosa
   Nevado De Ruiz

Cundinamarca:
   Bogota

Atlantico:
   Barranquilla
   Cartagena

Choco:
   Bahia Solano
   El Valle
   Capurgana
   Parque Utria

Magdalena:
   Santa Marta
   Rodadero
   Taganga
   Parque Tayrona

Guajira:
   Riohacha

Quindio:
   Quimbaya
   Rio La Vieja

Risarelda:
   Pereira
   Reserva La Pastora

Valle del Cauca:
   Buga
   Dapa
   Cali
   Cartago
   Dos Quebradas
   Lago de Sonso
   Naranjal
   Palmira
   Trujillo
   Tulua
   Yotoco

San Andres & Providencia

Would like to hear about other places. I know Aaron went to Bucaramanga and Hoda to Tumaco.

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to A new game: Lets play "where have I..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 19, 2003

Bogota
Cali
Zipaquira
Santa Marta
Barranquilla
Cartagena
Valledupar

[Calipro]

... in response to A new game: Lets play "where have I..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 19, 2003

To hell and back a couple of times.

[John O]

... in response to A new game: Lets play "where have I..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 19, 2003

You guys have given me a case of Atlas Envy.

Oh, well, here goes...

Bogota
Zipiquira

Cali
Palmira
Tulua
Yanaconas
Kilometro 18
Jamundi

Santa Marta
Rodadero
Tayrona

Barranquilla

Cartagena
Islas del Rosario

Monteria, Cordoba
Covenas (coast N. of Sincelejo)

Now, I'll see you guys & raise you: How many foreign countries have you visited in all? My count is 26. Let the geographical pissing match continue.

[Miguel]

... in response to Dept. of Too Much Time on My Hands, posted by John O on Jul 19, 2003

No text

[Miguel]

... in response to A new game: Lets play "where have I..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 19, 2003

Would be very interested in experiences of anyone who's travelled to Pereira or other parts of the Zona Cafetera.  I think Latin Encounters and www.latindest.com have a small presence there, and you can get addresses from the usual sources.  Is there much an agency infrastructure or are you on your on?  Did you feel safe traveling overland between cities? Did you feel safe in the cities?  Some people say the women from there would make better wives than those from Bogota/Cali/Barranquilla.  Any opinion?

[Aaron]

... in response to "Would like to hear about other pla..., posted by Miguel on Jul 19, 2003

It's larger than Armenia, which is also in the zonas cafeteras. The people are different from the people of Cali because they are not big city people, and much circles around agriculture, and it's very rural.

Pereira is of decent size, and has many beautiful women. Little to no agency presence. Negative things about Pereira I heard about are it has a problem with prostitution. Some have told me many women have been trafficked from Pereira all the way to Japan, and cannot come back home. Also, I know someone from Pereira who told me that there is a problem with drug mules in airports. Those are just a few negative things I've heard; not witnessed, so they're just rumors.

I took a bus from Cali all the way to Armenia, then from Armenia to Pereira. Spent 4 days in Armenia, and a day in Pereira. It was safe because there are troops and police covering the main roads. Armenia can be dangerous with regards to street crime, but not much of a guerrilla presence. I felt very safe.

The culture of the two cities is that of los Piasanos, which are the people from Medellin, which is different from los Calenos and los Costenos. I am accustomed to speaking with Calenos, and at first it was very difficult to communicate with Paisanos because although they both speak Spanish, Paisanos use different phrases and vocabulary. For example, the phrase "no da la papaya" is not used in Armenia. If you say it, people wont know what you're talking about.

If you're considering looking for a girl from that area, then it's a good idea. There isn't many agencies, so you'll come in contact with many women who have not met a gringo in person yet, but would definitely consider dating one. It wont be the type of thing where you have to worry or not if your girl is corresponding to many different gringos at a time, on top of the possibility of having a local boyfriend. So, in those respects, it's more relaxed.

"My opinion about the women with respects to who would make better wives."  

Well, I believe you cannot make broad blanket statements classifying the women between cities. There are major differences between the women, but in regards to "classifying them with respect on which would be better wives" is really of no use. You'll find good women and bad women anywhere you go, in any country. It depends on what kind of guy you are, and which type of woman you think would be compatible for yourself that plays the major role.

Cachacas or Bogotanas (Cachaco is a word for a person from Bogota) are generally reserved, very classy, and dress very elegant. They're very family oriented, and like to over do everything. I have some friends from Bogota, and many of them put on a air of "holier than thou." Keep in mind these are generalizations.

Calenas are not like this. I love Calenas because they can be classy, and dress elegant, too. But, also they are very extroverted and fun. There are some phrases, like MAMITA RICA, which is totally unacceptable in Bogota, but it is considered very acceptable in private with Calenas. Also, not all Calenas dress too revealing. Many younger ones do, but most of the older ones don't. I find the older ones more attractive than the younger ones.

The Costenos are very extroverted, but the culture is very different. All of Colombia is a carribean country/culture, but the coastal cities are more like the culture of the Spanish islands in the carribean, which is different. The coastal cities have allot more African decendents which have had a strong influence; Cali has allot, too. And Choco, well a woman told me that Choco is la tierra negra.

Others can tell you other things.

Aaron

[Miguel]

... in response to Pereira is a nice city...., posted by Aaron on Jul 19, 2003

Thanks Aaron, lots of good info there

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Pereira is a nice city...., posted by Miguel on Jul 19, 2003

[This message has been edited by Aaron]

I really can't make any comments about the guy you meet, or their relationship. However, I will tell you of one that I've seen this past May.

There was a guy all the way from Europe who visited an agency in Cali. He was intending on meeting a woman that he had meet before, and only seen one time previously. He had obtained the visas for her, and they were planning to get married in May. However, when he arrived, she changed her mind. She didn't want to marry him because she claimed that her parents didn't want her to marry.

When I asked him about their experience, he told me how well he knew her. It turned out that they spent a few days together the first time they met, and they had knew each other for only 5 months total with the long distance.
He felt disappointed, but not really shaken about it. I guess it's because he never loved her. Because he would tell me that a person doesn't necessarily need to be in love to get married. Well, he's right in some respects, but I don't share his philosophy.

Well, in May during his three weeks, he started to look again, and he was desperate to get married. He wanted to marry a different woman during his visit in May. Mind you, a different, new woman. So, he had a couple of citas with about 10 or 12 women, and he picked one. He married a woman after about 5 days of knowing her. He bought her a wedding band and everything, and he was planning to return back to Europe and Bogota to cancel the paper work for the first girl, in order to begin with the second girl.

This guy could not communicate with the girl. He did not speak any Spanish, and he would get very frustrated when the communication broke down. The woman, who was actually very nice, spoke some English, but it was still too difficult to maintain communication. They relied on me allot to translate for them. I asked the guy if he loved her; and he told me that love isn't necessary for marriage. I said "OK!!!" The night of the wedding, he gave her some kinky sexual underwear in front of some of the guests. It was a pair of men's underwear, with a long extention for a penis shaft of about a yard's length. He said it was a gift, and he and another European friend gave it to her, and video recorded when he gave her the gift. The slick guy actually planed a honeymoon night in a hotel not far from the agency. All this in 2 weeks time. But, she went along with it.

For me, I couldn't stand it. Miguel, it's ok to have acquaintances, but watch your back. This is a risky, and potentially dangerous endeavour. I'm not going back to the agencies again because it is tiresome, and can wear on a person's nerves, both for the men and women.

Also, (I'm assuming you're Latino because of you're name) I try to be very sensitive to Latinos, and all my friends are Latinos. Most of the guys I've meet in the agencies are not sensitive to cultural differences, and don't appreciate Latin culture, nor understand the Colombian context. I don't like that. And it makes me wonder, why in the world does a guy look to another country and culture for a wife, and does not fully appreciate it. Yeah, a guy can appreciate the physical beauty of particular features, but to genuinely love the person, you have to accept and appreciate the person's background. So, when I see many of the gringos go down, but don't want to learn, or appreciate, then I tend to leave them alone.

Miguel, for me, and I think for Cali Vet too, travelling to Colombia has been somewhat a spiritual endeavour. I respect what he's been doing, and we may have some differences in how we view things, but I respect how he opened up his mind. So, for me it's been a very personal and spiritual experience, and I'm very protective about it.

As for sex before marriage, it's a personal choice. I've had sex before, and I almost blew my life down the sewer because of it. So, I decided not to have sex again until I'm married.
Take Care,
Aaron

[Miguel]

... in response to To Miguel about "Different cities, ..., posted by Aaron on Jul 19, 2003

Some good points about language and culture.  It's hard to see a relationship working unless two people speak the same language and appreciate each others culture.  I'm not hispanic, but my Spanish is pretty good, and I've got an obsession with certain aspects of Colombian culture.  The time I visited an agency in Bogota, I moved into a hotel after a couple of days because I was a little frustrated, not speaking enough Spanish at the agency and not really experiencing the culture.  

Also, a comment, unsolicited advise, regarding your last paragraph. I don't know the details, but IF there's a problem (and there's probably not one), it's something you should confront with professional help, as it could either (a) result in your future partner being dissatisfied with the relationship, or (b) cause you to select a partner that you aren't compatible with.  This issue pretty much wrecked a relationship I was in.  If my fiancee had been willing to seek counseling to solve the problem, I think the relationship would have survived.  I went so far as to talk with a psychologist, who specialized in this area, and he believed the problem could be fixed easily.  But she wasn't willing to try.  Anyway, I'm probably way off base here, as I suspect you just have strong religious beliefs, in which case there's probably no problem.  And this isn't the place to discuss this anyway, and I'm not the person to discuss it with.  I would have E-mailed this but didn't have an address.  You're probably like me -- afraid you'll end up on everybody's spam list if you post your address.

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Pereira is a nice city...., posted by Miguel on Jul 19, 2003

.

[Aaron]

... in response to A new game: Lets play "where have I..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 19, 2003

CV,

If I could find a stable job in Colombia, I'd move there in a heart beat. I know some higher education researchers, with some leads for educational research, with possible leads in the future, but it is difficult because the Colombian governmental budget is being used mostly to finance the war. So, money is tight, not much funding for social science research there, even though it is a key for solving the issues. Uribe is doing an excellent job with his two prong approach: 1.) by taking a strong military offensive to the guerrillas; and 2.) providing amnesty to defecting guerrillas. Allot of people don't realize that many of the guerrilleros have become disgruntled about their services and experiences within their respective groups. It's not an easy life, and it isn't leading to anything for them. So, many are defecting.

Putting all that aside. I've been to the following places in Colombia, and I consider it a home now because I am not as happy until I am there with them. These are the places:

Cartagena
Cali
Buga
Armenia
Pereira
Medellin
Bucaramanga
Jamundi
Palmira
Socorro
Barichara
Giron
San Gil
Un Pueblito se llama Chalala.

Take Care,
Aaron

[cancunhound]

... in response to A new game: Lets play "where have I..., posted by Cali vet on Jul 19, 2003

but here goes from memory, and I'm sure I'm going to muff up some of these names and leave off a place or two.  I'll limit this to cities I've spent some time in (not just passing thru):
Starting from home base-

~Valle
Cali
Yumbo
Palmira
Florida
Jamundi
Buga
Darien
Tulua
Restrepo
Buenaventura
Juanchito (never in the day though)

~Narino
Tumaco (well the beaches outside of it, nice huts!)

~Bolivar
Cartagena

~Magdalena
Santa Marta
Rodadero
Taganga

~Cundinamarca
Bogota

~San Andres
(not Providencia)

A big caveat to some casual readers here -  I did NOT recommend that you consider going to some of ‘em!  You have to have a local with you that knows the ropes in many of these spots.

Most memorable?  Probably Restrepo - it’s just a tiny town perched up in the mountains with nothing more than a central square with typical cathedral.  I did get to personally meet “mi vaca” that would later be supper, however.  And I guess the bomb in Rodadero constantly brings back memories.

My near future targets - Guajira, Leticia, ,San Agustin, Ciudad Perdida - but given that the wife has a say (she seems to have the opinion that her gringo would never return from a visit to some of these places), probably only Guajira is realistic.  

-Bob

PS - recently spoke with a calena here in Dallas - her mom was on a tour group that was up at San Agustin checking out the stones, they got hit by bandits (fortunately nobody hurt and all that was lost was just cameras and money).