Learning Spanish - Poll Q

[Jersey Mike]

I am working hard to learn some basic conversational spanish - I'm planning to go to Cali or Bogota in the fall of this year.  Except for a couple of years of high school spanish, I do not have any background in the language.  I'm learning the basics, but when I listen to the rapid fire, full speed conversational espanol on the TV, I'm lost.

Question for the guys who have learned spanish as a 2nd language - what methods or programs did you find to be most effective?  Any particular tape programs or books that you would recommend over others?  I appreciate any suggestions.
Signed,
An Old Dog Trying to Learn New Tricks

[Jersey Mike]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

Thanks to all for the suggestions - I was in Barnes & Noble last evening and picked up some study material for my morning commute.  I am beginning to appreciate that I learn best when I can both see and hear the material - audio learning alone doesn't stick quite as well.  Again, thanks for the tips.

[colgre]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

If you have a long commute (mine is 70 minutes each way), I highly recommend the Pimsleur stuff. I listen to a 30 minute lesson on the way to work, then the same lesson on the way home to make sure I've understood it. That gives me 1 hour per day which really adds up after a while. After 3 months, I am just about finished with the third of the series (30 lessons per series) and can easily carry on conversations over the phone each weekend with several Colombianas, and feel I very confident about traveling in Colombia. The lessons are a bit pricey though...

[Miguel]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

Most people, including me, don't have the self discipline to learn a lot from tapes or books.  Before and after your trip to Cali or Bogota, you're best advised to follow the advice of Michael B or Cali Vet.  I've taken 5 classes at night school at the local college, made numerous trips to Latin America, and probably watch about as much Spanish language television as English television.  Still, I'm not fluent, and can't relate to non-English, native Spanish speakers as well as I'd like.  For example, I don't always clic as well with educated, professional latin women, because I can't communicate in Spanish anywhere close to their level.  Probably there's no substitute for spending about six months in an environment where you just speak Spanish.

[Cali vet]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

If you can swing it, time and money, a good choice is a foreign immersion program such as Amerispan.com. There are many others. You spend a couple of weeks living with a Spanish speaking host family and attending three or four hours of class daily. I went to one in Panama City and really liked it. The cheapest are in Guatamala but they're all over, even in the Dominican Republic. You can spend years taking classes at a community college as I did and maybe memorize the whole book but find that when you get off the plane and into a taxi you can't understand a word of what the driver is saying.

[Bueller]

... in response to Amerispan, posted by Cali vet on Jun 22, 2003

But keep in mind that Amerispan is a middleman which will charge you the "Gringo Surcharge". Nothing dishonest about that, but you can go it alone for less.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

I had good success with a book called Spanish for Gringos. Actually it comes in several skill levels, beginner, intermediate, etc. Found it at Waldenbooks I think. It's very easy to read, a little humor thrown in. Some of our Peruvian friends like it too, they use it "in reverse", if you catch my drift.

[jim c]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

I think the pimsleur system is great. Like other recorded systems you need the time to listen, repeat and absorb the information. Some of us have problems just sitting there and listening. I can recommend three  books for a total cost of less than twenty  dollars. First is essential Spanish grammer by Seymor Resnick $4.00 it has a section of twenty four hundred cognates. These are words that are more or less the same in spanish as they are in english This gives a real head start as to vocabulary as well as giving you the basics of grammar. Secondly, Maddrigals Magic Key to Spanish $12.00 has an interesting theory where she teaches the past tense as initially more important than the present because in conversation we are always speaking about what we did, not what we are doing. She also teaches comparable endings that allow you to convert in your mind, an english word into spanish( example dad equals ty in english, universidad v university --tion v cion -- ry v rio) these endings again help with cognates.The last book is 1001 most commonly used spanish words by Mr Ressnick again.This book is self explanitory. With these three books you can build a good base of understanding many words and how they are constructed then you can move into conjugation of verbs. Have fun!! JIMC

Ps also buy an Idiots Guide to learning Spanish it will, give you a broad perspective as to conjugation and parts of speech. The Resnick books are only on Amazon.com

[Michael B]

... in response to Re: Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by jim c on Jun 22, 2003

Thank you, Jim, mighty fine, mighty fine. I've never seen those books, but they sure sound good. Another good one is '501 Irregular Spanish Verbs' (Darn! There's that 'memorazation' thing again).

Re: cognates and 'dad' / 'cion' endings....co-incidencly, I was explaining that very thing to Martha on the phone last night, using as one example the word 'estacion' = station (not only does this word have the 'cion', it also has the 'es'---most Spanish words that start with 'es' are the same in English if you simply chop off the initial 'e'...as an accidential added bonus, I was telling her 'estacion de autobuses' and she said 'while we would understand what they mean if somebody says 'estacion de autobuses', we would say 'estacion de tren' (tren=train, yet another cognate for you guys), but 'terminal de autobuses'....Perfect! We (English speakers) use 'terminal' as our second choice for 'train terminal' and 'bus terminal' and 'airline terminal' as our first choice for the building at the airport where the passangers wait....really convient how 'terminal' is also a cognate, verdad?.

When thinking cognates, a couple of things to be careful of....cognates often exist between less commun words...that is a seldom used English word is a cognate for a common Spanish word, and vice versa...(for example, everybody knows that 'Cantina' is a Mexican bar, but a little used English meaning for 'Canteen' is a snack bar and/or a place where somebody like the Red Cross gives out coffee and donuts to soldiers)

On the whole, Mr. True Cognate is your friend, but be aware that he has two evil twin brothers, Mr. False Cognate and Mr. Near Cognate, and these two are lurking out there, just waiting for their opportunity to trip you up.

And since you mentioned past tense, most English speakers don't realise that Spanish has TWO past tenses, preterite and imperfect. If I remember right, Spanish has 14 tenses, but you can get by on 'beginner level' with only three of them, preterite (the more common of the two past tenses), present and simple future. Even for experienced people, you really only 'need' about 6 or 7 of them (in fact I'd have to dig out and review an old advanced level text book to come up with all 14 of them)

[surfscum]

... in response to Re: Re: Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Michael B on Jun 22, 2003

I got by for years on High School spanish, then I finally went to college and studied spanish in depth. I cringe now when I think about how my spanish must have sounded without the subjunctive: quiero que me dices....ay! qué feo!!!

I had a good teacher in college and I still have a verb chart he used that showed the relationships among the various tenses. I´ll have to dig it out and post it someday.

[Michael B]

... in response to Getting by those wounded Latin ears..., posted by surfscum on Jun 22, 2003

Definetly, subjunctive is included in one of the '6 or 7' that I mentioned...not only is it more accurate, it just sounds so much more polite.

I had the BEST teacher in college, I wish that I were 10% of the teacher he was. Not only did he teach us Spanish (he also taught German, French and Latin), he took us to Mexico City 3 times (well, OK, we had to pay our own fare, but he even did all the 'ground work' of chartering the busses and reserving the hotels), but he showed us things and places that we would have never dreamed of going to on our own (not to mention keeping most of us out of too much trouble) and his knowledge of the culture was phenominal. RIP Dr. Merle Farnsworth, at least one of your students learned something (actualy, I think 3 or 4 of my class mates are still teaching in HS, so maybe a LOT of us learned something).

[surfscum]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

People learn differently, and one method that works well for me is flash cards, especially if I make them. They're also very portable and so you can take them with you and review vocab while standing in a line somewhere.

The best way to build on what you have learned in a book or tape is to speak with a native speaker. Hire a tutor or look for ways to befriend a latino. Years ago I tutored English in a community college and met lots of Mexicans, some of whom I became friends with. I forced myself to use Spanish with them as much as possible and this lasted for a year, year and a half. No classroom could ever have given me what they did.

Also, if you ever have any questions about Spanish grammar, etc., I'd love to answer them for ya.

[Bueller]

... in response to Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Jersey Mike on Jun 21, 2003

Lucky for you, you're going to two cities where Spanish is spoken more clearly than anywhere in the world. When people see you're a Gringo, they'll probably speak even slower. Don't get discouraged by how fast they talk on TV.

 That said, if you can't take a summer class at the community college, my next best choices would be 1) get Pimsleur tapes from the library or off eBay, and get CDs by José Luis Rodrigues and by Alejandro Fernandez and try following along with them.

[lurker]

... in response to Re: Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Bueller on Jun 21, 2003

I've used the Foreign Service Institute series.  It begins by emphacizing pronunciation and then teaches you grammar in a conversational way.  You learn by oral drills (first time through with the book).  You learn a concept then apply it through numerous person/tense/number substitution drills.  After working throught the first two of these I was able to get around Mexico City by myself with no guides.  The FSI series is resold by several companies and you can pick it up at Barnes & Noble or on the internet.

I've heard the Primsaleur system is also quite good.  Don't bother with anything shorter.  

One of the ironies is that abstract discussions are almost easier than basic "survival" dialogs.  Because the English language took its common words from a German source, the everyday words are different.  The abstract words in English and Spanish come from Latin.  You don't need a dictionary to understand "historia" "economia" "politica" or "literatura"  

If you take a college course, be sure that it includes an emphasis on oral skills.  When I took them several years ago, I learned to read a newspaper pretty well but I could not understand a single word that my Latin friends said.

[grant5432]

... in response to Re: Learning Spanish - Poll Q, posted by Bueller on Jun 21, 2003

I have been cramming myself trying to learn Spanish as fast as possible!  
I have never had ANY Spanish, not even in grammar or high school, so
I'm starting from the very beginning.  

I am using the 8 audio CD's from Michel Thomas.  I think these are really
good.  I bought it at Barnes and Noble.  This is the language expert that
has taught many of the hollywood movie stars who needed to learn a
language quickly (like Mel Gibson, Emma Thompson, Barbara Streisand,
etc).   The thing that attracted me most is it emphasises that there is no
studying, no textbooks to read, no memorization needed, no tests, etc.    
It's up to the instructor (Mr. Thomas) to teach you how to speak Spanish,
instead of the burden being on the student.  

However, it's hard for me to say if it's the best one becuase I haven't
tried others.