Is lying the national pastime in Colombia

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re boom chicka boom, posted by Michael B on May 17, 2003

Didn't realize we had that much in common.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re boom--I need to h..., posted by Red Clay on May 17, 2003

Even though we digress and get off subject it is a way of finding other common interests,maybe finding guys you have enough incommon with to hook up with.
Probably the place most of us go is Cali.But then there is the timing.I usually go around Christmas.I have been staying a month but want to cut the Cali part down to 2 weeks and go somewhere else also,Maybe Santa Marta.
Cali Vet even said one of the advantages of living in Cali was meeting some of the guys when they come through.
It would be a good idea to post general travel plans so guys can hook up there or anywhere else.
And you can always look me up if you are in San Jose.And if you bring a Colombiana with you she can meet my wife.Colombianas usually become instant friends when they meet.
One of the fun things about this whole Colombiana experience is the guys I have met.Guys don't bother with each other alot.But to have something in common can give you an incentive.I have lots of guy friends now through the
Colombiana connection.It was fun staying at Latin Love in 1999.Comparing notes and joking with the guys was a big part of it.

Pete
peiguren@aol.com

[surfscum]

... in response to Things inCommon, lets have a beer inCali, posted by Pete E on May 17, 2003

Hi Pete, I don't care if this thread is off topic: I've been enjoying your posts about Johnny Cash, ranch life, et al. I think Red Clay already has his wife here and she is from Peru, as is my novia who is still down there. But I grew up in Willow Glen and now live near Palo Alto and can relate to the real estate situation.  Bought a 3 bdrm, 2 bath in Sta. Teresa area in 2/96 and sold it in 12/01 for just over double what we paid for it. I don't think I'll see that again here.

[Red Clay]

... in response to How about a beer in San Jo?, posted by surfscum on May 17, 2003

Surfscum is correct about my wife and marriage, I'm afraid Cali would make my eyes wander enough to get me into big trouble. However, we are coming to San Diego in about a month, but I know that's not really close to you Northern Cal. guys.

My mom met Hank a few times, she was a secretary for the company that owned WSM radio at the time (Grand Ole Opry) She never told me until just a few years before she died, but no big deal to her. She just thought he was a low-life. He and others were in and out of her office during the late 40's - early 50's. I 'bout fell over when she told me that.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: How about a beer in San Jo?, posted by Red Clay on May 18, 2003

Hank was a low life.But he was a pioneer in country music.I'm not crazy about his voice but he wrote alot of good songs.
I think Hank Jr is alot better than the old man,but not a pioneer.
I was listening to a counrty music channel on my Cable TV network.It was a  Hank song,he was singing  looooong goooone lonesoooome ,My wife was making fun of it,mimicing it.
We did find a group we both like.Lead Zepelin.

Pete

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Re: How about a beer in San Jo?, posted by Pete E on May 18, 2003

Yep, he ain't for everybody. Probably really sounds foreign to a Latina.

[Pete E]

... in response to How about a beer in San Jo?, posted by surfscum on May 17, 2003

WE have had alot of get togethers here for guys married to Colombiana and interested in it,but lately just been getting together with the people we already know,thee a pretty big group.
Cali James aka El Diablo and I are going to the festival in Downtown Campbell today.The women haven't decided if they are going or not.You could join us or we could get together another time,lots of walking and looking  vs sitting and talking which is good when you first meet.
all me at 408-287-9829 or my cell phone 408-313-7871.
Real estate had a peak in 1989,slow slump untill 1995 then up until about Jan.2001,dropped back,about back to therexcpt for big $$$ Los gastos type propery,which is still
50-60% of where it was.You got ina litle late in 96 outout a little late in Dec 2001,and still doubled.In in 1993-1995 and out Jan 2001 you might have tripled.
Some of tat LosGatos stuff when severl times befor it dropped back.1995--$800,000.Late 2000 early 2001- $3,000,000,back to maybe $1,500,000 ,all for the same house.
I think Palo Alto held beter,but I do nothing there.
have watchedReal Estate here for the 37 years since I bougt my first house.The satistics you see in the paper ar often wrong,they ar means and averages and always behind.
ou neeto follow what a particular propey did to realy se it.This can be very easy with tract type similar houses.
My Cupertino are house  sold for $24,000 in 1968.To 100,000 by 1977 stayed pretty flat,maybe up to 200,000 by 1987,then jumping to $400,000 by 1889.Then slow slump to maybe $300,000 in 1993-1994-then $800,000 by Jan 2001,back to $700,000 by late 2001 back to $750,000 now.From here?Slow up,possible down if interest rates go up faster than the economy recovers.You always win in the long run,sometimes in the short run,sometimes really big.I saw A condo go 300% in 4 years.

Call be,more fun to BS in Person than type.
Jame  just got here,we ar out of here.

Pete

[surfscum]

... in response to Re: A  beer in San Jose-Sure- call me, posted by Pete E on May 17, 2003

Hi Pete, I couldn't make it last weekend and will be out of town for Memorial Day, but I'll take you up on the offer. Even though I haven't been to Colombia, I look forward to hearing about your experiences and how your wife has adjusted. Campbell still could be a good place to meet, if it's convenient for you.  Anyway, I'll give you a call next week to hook up.

[Pete E]

... in response to Is lying the national pastime in Colombi..., posted by elcolombiano on May 14, 2003

"Is someone lying to me or am I paranoid?"
Probably the first,yes.After experiencing it enough you become the second,paranoid.
We covered this a couple times,once about 4 weeks ago.
My opinion,yes,there is a tendency to tell stories rather than the truth.Part of it is a fear or unwillingness to be direct.Sometimes it means more than that.Its a cultural thing with Colombians I think.
Example,just yesterday.I ask my step son,age 12,what happened to the lime that was right here?(pointing to kitchen counter).I had just cut it,poured my Corona and was going to squeeze it in.
He says "I don't know." I say it was right here,looking under everything.Where could it have gone?He says "I don't know."Finally,going on intuition,or maybe getting to paranoa,I say, "look,please don't lie to me."
He says,OK,here it is,what was left after he squeezed it.
I told him I don't care about the lime,I got others,I was just trying to figure out where it went.Please don't lie to me,then I won't trust you.
Just a mini example.Its cultural I think.An automatic thing they learn to do.It doesn't mean they are a bad person,but it can create problems when something serious comes up and you are either lied to or think you have been.
My step son is a really good kid.We get along well.Actually without our better relationship recently he probably would not have fessed up.
This is a kid example,Colombianas tend to the same,each individual being different.Hopefuly you find one who hasn't learned this,or will stop doing it after you discuss it with her.
Maybe my experience is not the norm,I don't know,just my impression.

Pete

[jim c]

... in response to Is lying the national pastime in Colombi..., posted by elcolombiano on May 14, 2003

I know I will get flamed for this, but honestly YES. It seems to me that Colombians will lie normally to avoid confrontation. Her mother was not going to rat her out, it wasn't her business and she was not going to cause a problem for her daughter. I have been told "she is in the bathroom", when I called back ten minutes later she was gone. The excuse was my mother didn't tell me you called.
    The maid will lie and the kids will even lie. The secretary at an agency is not going to tell you why a girl dosn't want to meet you or date you. They will lie so as not to hurt your feelings.  one girl was telling me she liked me while never having time to go out. she had another guy . The best I ever got from the secretqary was "She is not for you."
  One lady I hadn't called for two days went MIA for two weeks. This is a woman that couldn't stay overnight. Her kids told me she was visiting with her sister in the mountains and would be back in a few days. They did not know when she was coming back. she finally showed up and said there was no way to contact anyone. Including her kids?  
   I couldn't contact my ex novia, there was no answer on a friday even though she had a live in maid. So I called the next morning (Saturday) at 7:am. The maid said she was at a business meeting. In the traditional Colombiana response, I was attacked for thinking that she may have not come home all night. Just one of the nails in the coffin.
 I would rather live with an honest whore than a dishonest virgin. Maybe that is why I am still looking.
jim c

[greg]

... in response to Re: Is lying the national pastime in Col..., posted by jim c on May 15, 2003

My Goodness, thats a major concern. Honesty and truthfulness is very important in any relationship. I wouldn't want to be involved with a habit Liar. I hope that this isn't a Generalization about Calenas.

[beenthere]

... in response to Latinas are big time Liars??, posted by greg on May 15, 2003

Greg,  I've been a lurker on this site for awhile, and just lately have become a member.  This isn't the first time I've seen posts accusing Colombians (in general) more specifically Calenas, as being inherently "liars".  Greg don't buy into this for a second, and more importantly, don't let it change your views on Colombians or Calenas.
My ex-wife is Calena, she had many bad qualities, but a liar she was NOT. I'm still traveling to Colombia and have had relationships with MANY fine ladies since my divorce.  Not a liar in the bunch.  There are many reasons why people lie, of course, we're all humans.  But based on some of my experiences in Colombia, and some of the gringos I've met down there, I can see why some women would lie.  Maybe there is little interest on the girl's part, but they don't want to hurt the poor guy.  We've all lied to women who we REALLY didn't want to go out with, but we didn't have the guts to tell them to their face.  Of course, there are women down there with intentions that aren't exactly sincere either.
Greg, try not to listen to the negative.  There are always 2 sides to every story.
Good Luck!!

[Ricardo]

... in response to Re: Latinas are big time Liars??, posted by beenthere on May 15, 2003

We could 'split hairs' about what is or what is not a lie....  probably  more important is the degree to which the person is lying, whether it's habitual or frequent (chronic), and what types of situations involve the lying behavior.  It could probably be safely said that everyone will lie at some point in time.  In fact there are times when lying is justified, and maybe absolutely necessary, for example if it would save your life, or prevent harm or injury.  so, 'white lies' could be acceptable...
regarding 'las niñas' - you're bound to find a lie here and there, but it better not be frequent, and/or on important matters(like your relationship)....
but lying to hide their involvement with other men, is a reason  to 'kick them to the curb'

[DOMINGUIN]

... in response to Time to 'kick them to the curb'???, posted by Ricardo on May 15, 2003

Is it possible to go through life without telling lies?  The great Chirichaua Apache chief, Cochise (who had a reputation for honesty) was reported to have once said:   "Why do men lie to each other?  If I don't want to tell the truth about something, then I just say: I don't want to talk about that."  

My ex-wife always used to ask me: Do I look fat in this dress?"  She was 5'7 and 165-170 lbs, she wasn't morbidly obese, but she didn't exactly look like the young Calenas in bikins that catch our eyes.  I had a choice of answers that ranged all the way from "you look great" to "if your butt was any bigger, you would knock the lamp off the end table."

I usually chose to say: There is no possible way for me to answer that question and come out a winner", an adaptation of Cochise's philosophy. My marriage lasted 23 years, maybe I didn't tell little white lies enough, but I initiated the divorce, so I don't think that was why the marriage ended!

I think we lie to advance our agendas and then it becomes a matter of habit.  It becomes easier to lie then to have a moral center that forms our integrity. Perhaps its hard to be truthful in a society that is run by graft, corruption and the powerful preying upon the weak.  I would assume that men go to Colombia because they feel powerfulI'm going to Colombia in a few weeks,  

[DOMINGUIN]

... in response to Re: Latinas are big time Liars??, posted by beenthere on May 15, 2003


I'm interested in this conversation about Colombian women lying.  I don't know a thing about Colombian women, I'll be in Bogota in 32 days, but I do know something about American men, being a 50 year old member of the species.

I admit that its a generalization, but I think that we are not good listeners, we don't look for the non verbal body language that tell us what a woman is feeling. We tend to project our feelings on women and expect them to reciprocate.  We are blinded by our own sense of self importance and think that because we are interested in being with a woman, then she should immediately make us the center of her world.  

It seems to me that if we want to establish a relationship with a woman, then the most important things that we can do is understand their personality and their current motivations.  

Women are obviously much different then men anbd just as importantly, women have different personalities from each other.  In my opinion, to try and understand a woman, how she thinks and how she is motivated is more important then pushing for a date with her because we don't want to be alone, or wanting to have recreational sex, simply because we want to demonstrate our virility.  

If someone tells us "this woman is not for you", is it really lying?  As men, do we look at a woman's bust or her behind or her crotch and undress them with our eyes? And then we say to ourselves: "she is ugly, her boobs are too small, her butt is too big, etc.  And so, if we treat women like meat on a rack, then rather then being avoided or told some lie, would we be rather told that the woman we want to go out with thinks that we are too old, physically unattractive to her, too fat, too bald, smells like a goat, too arrogant, a lousy listener?  We are also objects in the eyes of some women, and the only thing that elevates us is our abiltiy to be truthful and to show our heart.

Too get respect, we have to treat a woman with respect and even then, the respect doesn't always become trust. Sometimes there are circumstances that we can't control, her family background, her fears, prior experiences of being treated badly by a man.

Its hard enough to figure out the personality of a woman who speaks English in the course of a 2 hour dinner, it must be damn challenging to do it across the barriers of culture and language. I suppose I'm going to find out in a few weeks.  

Thank you for letting me voice my opinion.