Clothing in Cali?

[Seeker]

Departure date is quickly approaching;  I need your advice on what types of clothes to take to Cali. Is a suit and tie necessary? What about jeans and t-shirts? I don't want to pretend to be someone I'm not, but I do have a variety of clothes ranging from casual to formal. I'd like to blend in with the locals and make a good impression with the ladies, so I'm pretty sure I should leave the Hawaiian shirts at home, right? What clothes do you usually pack?

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Clothing in Cali?, posted by Seeker on May 3, 2003

I am not going to argue with the advice that has been given to you, Seeker.  I am assuming that your calena is going to come to the US to live.  In that vein, I want to point out that adopting Colombian dress mores to the point that US dress mores are masked may contribute to problems down the road.

On the LWL, more than one lister has complained about the choice of dress of their calena wife once in the US.  Inappropriate attention from US guys, dirty looks from US women, and gossip about their wives being sl**s were all mentioned.  

My point is that an introduction to US dress mores might start with the first meeting.  Showing respect is essential.  However, a brief education into how Americans show respect through dress can save a lot of painful misunderstandings later.

On second thought, Larry Glickman on the LWL has a 3 point test for ladies; Chemistry, Character, and Personality.  He cautions against getting caught up in appearance at the expense of other traits.  If a Latina is putting a lot of weight on your appearance, she may be making the same type of mistake that some of us have made when we put too much emphasis on the Latina's appearance.  I believe that dressing solely to impress, and thereby giving misleading signals as to your character and personality, is a long run mistake.

[Big Wally]

... in response to Re: Clothing in Cali?, posted by Brazilophile on May 4, 2003

I told my future wife before she came to the US that she probably wouldn't be able to wear the same clothes once she got here. She wanted to know what I meant and I explained that the skin-tight, low-cut tops and tight hip-hugger pants were not the usual dress for women in the US, especially if over 25.

Of course that's probably more true due the tendancy of American women to start putting on the pounds from all the fast food and lack of exercise.

She told me last year about a telephone conversation she  had with one of her Cali friends who has been in the US about 4 years. She said they laughed at how they used to dress in Cali. They couldn't believe how silly and flirtatious they were. They still like to dress like this on rare occasions but they now realize that it's more for the younger kids with their push-up bras. My wife doesn't need one and acutally tries to playdown her 'assets'.

Fortunately she and her Cali friends can still wear these clothes and look hot, they've just 'outgrown' them.

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Clothing in Cali?, posted by Brazilophile on May 4, 2003

Dressing correctly and being clean for the occasion is simply common courtesy. We are not meeting these ladies to make a cultural statement on how we don't care if they expect us to dress like a gentleman of suitable class.
   If you have been going south for five Years now I would expect you would know better. But maybe you are right. It is probably better for her if she finds out right away that you are ethnocentric. You plan on being who you are no matter what she thinks. And that she will have to change her customs and tastes to suite you. Sounds like a great plan for success. Don't try to impress her let her see who you are right away and I'm sure that the chemistry will draw her right to you. Your source of advice, LAG!!!!  PLEASE this is an adult site

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: Re: Clothing in Cali?, posted by jim c on May 5, 2003

Jim C.

I don't know you, but from the remarks you have made in your posts regarding my posts, you seem to be a very hurt and angry man.  Disparaging me and LAG is NOT going to change our experiences in Latin America.

I agree, and did say in my post, that we should dress respectfully for the first meetings.  After that you should dress in a manner both of you feel comfortable with. That means asking her what her attitude towards dressing is and sharing yours with her.

I am not a clothes horse and do not try hard to impress anyone with how I dress.  Most of that is because I am over 6 feet and wear size 14 shoes.  It is EXTREMELY difficult for me to find impressive clothing that fits me well at an affordable price.  You can say I am biased in that regard.  

However, my experiences in LA have consistently shown me that most Latinas, at least the Latinas I am interested in, are MOST impressed by CHARACTER, NOT CLOTHING.  Impressing a woman with your character, for example by having learned enough Spanish to converse with her without a translator, keeping your word showing that you are trustworthy and always tell the truth, staying focused on her and her only while in her company showing that you are not a womanizer, and giving her small gifts frequently to show that you have not forgotten her, will go a VERY long way in attracting a woman who is looking for a man of character.  I feel that men, or women, who need to impress with dress do so because their characters are singularly unimpressive.

Now, Jim, it seems obvious to me that you and I are driving different cars, on different roads, under different conditions, and in different directions.  Before you flame me, just realize that our respective mileages are going to vary.

[jim c]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Clothing in Cali?, posted by Brazilophile on May 5, 2003

I don't recall responding to any of your posts other than this one, if disagreeing with you makes me a hurt and angry man, I fail to see why. Trust me if I was attempting to disparage you, you would know it.
   I have observed dress code posts on this site numerous times and the responses are usually the same. Most say shine your shoes, cut your nails, brush your teeth and wear conservative dress. Along with this there is always some guy that likes the sound of his own voice who says yea! but my girl liked shorts or only sissies get manicures. I get real tired of YEABUTS.
   It was a simple post requesting simple advice and did not require a disertation on the social mores and hidden agendas of wearing shorts verses dockers. Your initial post indicated a concern that hiding your true dress style may be a fraud, while I believe that dressing correctly for an interview is common courtesy. You go on to say that dressing differently than you would normally, may cause the lady in question to choose you for invalid reasons, the same as choosing a woman for her beauty. Which in the Glickman womens list theory would be a drastic mistake.
  As to Lag, I attempted to reason with him when he was dramatically retiring from the world after being dumped by the lolita he was attempting to buy. His response was insulting and petulent. I find him to be full of advice for everyone and incapable of listening to another voice but his own. I have been on the record about what I think of him for two years and rarely read the messages on  his site. There are those here that respect him, but he is not a guru here and seldom quoted.
PS I am intrigued by a person who thinks dressing well shows a lack of Character.

[jim c]

... in response to Clothing in Cali?, posted by Seeker on May 3, 2003

This subject has been covered many times in the past.  So try the archives. Nico's post is imho on the money, although there is always someone who says that shorts at a sita are ok. Wrong!!!  a first time meeting requires respect. A manicure is a good idea,clean hands and nails help. Short hair is the style in Colombia. Sandals with dirty toenails are a no no. Shaving daily is good as well as clean teeth. You would not believe what I have seen in the agencies. Colombians are neurotiic about cleanliness and dress up, not down. Jeans , dockers, sport shirts, loafers and tie shoes. Cologne, deodorant, mouthwash. Real simple actually!

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: Clothing in Cali?, posted by jim c on May 4, 2003

When I first met my current novia, my flight arrived at 5:30 am, I was out till 8:15 am. I called her at 9:15 as I promised I'd call before 10:00 she was already at the spot we were going to meet at. She misunderstood. I said I'd call by 10:00 she assumed we'd meet by 10:00 am.

So. . . . .with under an hour's sleep, I shave, jump in the shower, throw on some clothes and jump in a taxi. I was clean, and repsectful but was also being myself. I have/had a very long ponytail, wore black jeans, black T Shirt and blag shoes with flames on them!!! He he he he. . . . . Ok, so I went overboard , but was hungover and in a rush;-)

She now admits to thinking I was a biker! She kept looking the holes where earings used to reside, two of them in my left ear.
We went to the beach and had a great time talking etc. After a few minutes she realized I wasn't a delinquent and we got along great.

A few days later we were walking in the colonial zone and I still had shorts and flip flops on. We went to the beach early in the morning and then spent a LONG time visiting her family etc. I was starving and headed to the colonial zone to get some food. By now it was after 5:00 PM and I'm wearing flip flops!
She guided me down back roads so as not to be embarassed! I would never head to the city in shorts and flip flops but I was hungry and could care less if I look like a tourist. I was a tourist!!!

Now she enjoys the fact that I am a wee bit "different". She used to dress more conservatively but has changed just a bit. She never used to want to call attention to herself. She preferred to blend in. Sort of impossible with a big, pasty white gringo, and now she is a lot more comfortable dressing more in a style that might draw attention.

For my 40th birthday, I wanted to chop off the pony tail, and shave me head. She said no. We just might have to come to a compromise, as I am sort of sick of it, but she is against such a drastic change!

So. . . . .I would never suggest anybody do what I did, but I also would suggest not dressing in a manner in which you would never dress in the states. If you never wear dockers, don't buy them just for the trip. If you don't wear Golf shirts, I suggest the same. Dress neat and respectful, as you would in the states.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Clothing in Cali?, posted by jim c on May 4, 2003

I have a beard and it was a negative in Cali.Mustaches,OK.
They like shorter hair.I got butchered by this little gay barber.A lady translated what I wanted,he nodded OK,then scalped me.I was p!ssed.My wife liked the look.
I am thinking about getting rid of the beard after 30 years
of being attached to it,and it to me.Kind of says "70's guy."  My wife originaly said oh its nice(I do keep it neat)but really it is a negative to her even today.And there is all that hair color to keep from looking like Gabby Hayes(Roy Rogers sidekick,you got to be old).I'm also going for shorter hair.She likes it better.I'm slow to change,have said I would be burried with that beard,but even I am ready for a new look.
So I wouldn't change if your not ready to yet,but be aware these things count.So if its the same too you,short hair,no beard,mustache(neat,OK.No Fu Manchu's)is the preffered look.

Pete

[jeff a1]

... in response to Also, posted by Pete E on May 4, 2003

My hair got much shorter, my mustache stays trimmed, and my goatee went the way of my single life after I married.  Also, I started dressing a lot neater, as well.
Short groomed hair and nice looking (not necessarily expensive, but well cared for) clothes are important. As my wife said, "I don't want a hippie," after my hair had begun to grow a little bit.

Pete, i know what you're talking about!

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Also, posted by Pete E on May 4, 2003

Pete

For guys that are looking in Latin America, they may get fashion "whipsawed" if they don't keep their ear to the ground.  The style over the last few years has been shorter hair, but I'm seeing movement away from that now.  Especially in the Spanish telenovelas the leading men often have, if not long hair, fuller hair.

And speaking of payasos in Spanish telenovelas with long hair, that Pedro Escamoso returns today.  I think he could be a handsome guy if he didn't dress so weird and cut his hair so weird.  Plus, he's so tall he just looks like a clown to me, IMO.  That's one show I'll never get hooked on.

Steve

[Pete E]

... in response to Shorter hair, maybe not, posted by DallasSteve2 on May 5, 2003

Steve,
Pedro looks goofy even by US standards with that long hair in the back.I wonder if its not fake just for the show.
He would look far better if he just cut off the part that hangs way downin back.
But ten,la escomoso is not supposed to be cool.It translates "flake".My wife has been trying to describe it,just weird person I guess.e always has this mental convesation trying to talk himself in or out of something.
But wil take Pedro or Betty any day over these serious,stupid latin soap operas.

Pete

Pete

[Edge]

... in response to Re: Shorter hair, maybe not, posted by Pete E on May 5, 2003

Pedro has a "mullet" haircut.  The deal with the hair and weird clothes is that he came in from the "country" to the big city of Bogotá.  He is playing the part of a country bumpkin who is not sophisticated.  

No offense Pete, but it is El Escamoso versus la (feminine).

Miguel Varoni is his name and I doubt he is like that in real life.  His wife is also very popular in the telenovelas and looks just like a friend of my wife.

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Also, posted by Pete E on May 4, 2003

Pete

I think you should shave your beard if your wife prefers. It only seems fair to me.  I like women to shave their "beards" (and I'm not talking facial hair).

Steve

[Pete E]

... in response to Beards, posted by DallasSteve2 on May 5, 2003

Steve,
Hmm,but can't some stubble be more damaging than longer hair,a unique form of wisker burn? I  can go ouch just thinking about it.
As long as she shaves her legs and armpits I'm OK.
When we were dating I got no complaints,but now my wife will sometimes turn her face complaining
about the beard,so it goes beyond mere looks.
A friend of mine shaved his beard after a long time.When his dog saw him come in the house he strarted barking at him.He didn't recognize him.Few people who know me now have seen me without the beard.
I may post some pictures if I can get the connection to my
digital camera fixed.It doesn't want to recognize the camera to download pictures.

Pete