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Author Topic: Killings in Colombia  (Read 9299 times)
Pete E
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« Reply #15 on: May 07, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Armed peasants have inevitably turned in..., posted by Ricardo on May 6, 2003

Ricardo,
I reacted,perhaps I didn't even understand your point.I certainly don't want to stifle debate although we are way off course of the intention of the board and I know I am the number one violator of that.
Maybe we should mail off the board.We might be surprised to find we have more in common than my post would make you think.

Pete

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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Armed peasants have inevitably turned in..., posted by Ricardo on May 6, 2003

I'll tell you what it is.By default if you are not willing to do anyting about the situation you will get more of the same old sh!t.If you find fault with any solution,your solution is nothing,but talk of course.
Your argument about Uribe not being popularly elected is bogus nonsense.He won on the first ballot,pretty unheard of there.Off course he got less % of the vote against a field of 6 or so than Pastrana in a run off against one guy.DUH!!!
And your argument about voter turnout.Do you think this country ever elected a president who had 50% of the vote of the elgible voters?No way.A huge % of people don't vote,even here.Does that mean we should not support the president who is duly elected?We should just have anarchy?
Uribes was expected to win,because Colombians who have been hoping the problem would go away by itself,or be solved by giving the rebels half the country like Pastrana are finally realising if they don't fix this its not going to get fixed.My wife drove 100 miles round trip to the Colombian counsolate in San Francisco to vote for Uribe,knowing he would win anyway.When the voting was closed they broke in to patriotic song.
Its going to take some GUTS,not just wishfull thinking to handle it.Sounds like Uribe is serious.Pay informers for imformation?Damm rights.Good idea.I would pay for FARC scalps if thats what it took.
Your figures on unemployment and poverty look about right.Whats your solution???
Colombians with money are leaving,no one wants to invest,about the only tourists to a beautifull country are us crazy gringos chasing women.All because of Security and Rebels.Crime .Corruption.Bribery.
Untill Colombia fixes this there is little hope things will improve.They finally have a popular leader willing to take it on.Why are you opposed to fixing the problem?Why are so many people trying to throw up road blocks for him?For many the answer is ,as someone said,they don't want it fixed.They are part of the problem.
I presume that is not you.You seem to have some sort of philosophical problem with fixing the problem,or at least to any action that would fix it.You have lots of complaints but no solution.If you do you certainly didn't tell us,you just seem to want to stop Uribe.
Sounds alot like some people in this country a few weeks ago.None of them liked Sadam Housien but they had all kinds of objections to doing anthing about it.If we followed their opinion Saddam Housein would still be torturing and killing his people.Did you see today they looted the banks?
100 palaces?Billions for arms,and we get blamed when Iraqi children starved to death because of our imbargo?
All thats needed for the forces of evil(yes there are good guys and bad guys)to prevail in the world are people to do nothing.
If you are not willing to do anything at least get the f--k out of the way and stop complaining about the people who are.And I know a place you can move to where you might like it.Cuba.As long as your opinion is the same as Castro and you like living on $20 a month while he is one of the richest people in the world you will be fine.You don't have to try and turn Colombia in to the same kind of place,either by action or lack of action doing any thing about it.
I don't know your age Ricardo but I presume you are young and either in college or recently out,where you got lots of your ideas.Your heart might be in the right place,you may have alot of facts that you like to assemble to point out ain't it awfull.There is an old saying. If your not a liberal at 20 you have no heart,if your not a conservative at 40 you have no brains.College proffesors and dictators being notable exceptions.I'm betting your closer to 20.Its OK,its cured by a little wisdom(different than intellectual mind f---ing),which tends to come with age,but not always.
But if you do have a solution,fire away.If you don't you are just impeding those who do.

Your Ball

Pete

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cancunhound
Guest
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to And your solution is???, posted by Pete E on May 7, 2003

Easy Pete!  I think he did state that those were just quotes!  I didn't follow the link, but they obviously did come from a very liberal, anti-US policy source.  Indeed those percentages out of context mean absolutely nothing.  At last check the polls showed that Uribe still has very strong support, and all Colombians that I've spoken with really like him.
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Pete E
Guest
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: And your solution is???, posted by cancunhound on May 7, 2003

I don't question the facts,they may be true.But it seems to me the underlying message is don't do anything.Maybe I just reacted to the part about Uribe not having popular support.
I found no solution in the post,similar to leftist thinking in the US.All kinds of reasons to do nothing,the result of which is the Saddam Houseins,Ide Amins,Pol Pots and FARC of the world.Actually we were complicit in SH and PP,in our fight against communism and Islamic fundementalism we helped some bad guys in the process.

Pete

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bogota vet1
Guest
« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to It's not quite that simple., posted by Big Wally on May 6, 2003

Lest you forget the most important point:

MANY MANY Colombians have a vested interest in having things continue AS IS.

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Brazilophile
Guest
« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: It's not quite that simple., posted by bogota vet1 on May 6, 2003

That's very intersting, BV!

Who are these Colombians you speak of?  I can only think of a few people who receive brides, engage in money laundering, or aid in the smuggling of drugs and weapons.  

I suspect powerful Americans who have vested interests are more capable of maintaining the status quo.

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Ricardo
Guest
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2003, 04:00:00 AM »

... in response to Re: Re: It's not quite that simple., posted by Brazilophile on May 6, 2003

http://www.tools4change.org/encamino/dec27_2002afroint.htm
 
" In 1986, 0.4% of Colombia's population owned 33% of the arable land. By 2001, that same 0.4% owned 62% of the land. That is, the land property of a small minority doubled in 15 years. How? Essentially, by force and with money. The force was provided by paramilitarism and the money by the drug trade. Conveniently, the 1980s saw the birth of the ominous alliance between paramilitaries and the emerging narco-capitalists. "
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