Colombia will always be a haven for brides...

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: I am drug free. Are you?, posted by lswote on Mar 30, 2003

I find your comments entertaining.

Aaron

[wizard]

... in response to Colombia will always be a haven for brid..., posted by Yalg on Mar 29, 2003

[This message has been edited by wizard]

I think you make interesting points, but it is my belief that even if Colombia did not have rampant politico-economic unrest, there would still be many ladies searching for a foreign partner... Why, you might ask... I think that besides the issues of the narco trafficers, which IMHO has little day-to-day effect on Colombian citizens, there is still the general feeling that the average Colombiano makes a very poor life partner... Being a wife, or mistress and one of multiple novias for a Colombiano is not an attractive package for a woman searching for a committed relationship... Couple this with the socio-economic conditions, 20%+ unemployment, kidnapping, extortion and human rights issues effect many latinas search for a foreign partner...

I back this up with the fact there are many LA countries that have many, many ladies searching for a foreign partner... Not just Colombia... Having perused many of the MOB websites over the years, there is a good mix of ladies from all LA countries, not just Colombia...

Colombia does have the greatest number of agencies for this pursuit, but does not have the corner on the market... The agencies make the process easier and that's why Colombia gets most of the press, around here anyway...

Just checkout the ads on latineuro... About 9 out of 10 girls say they don't want a man from Brazil, that all the Brazilian men treat them badly... No civil war in Brazil, just economic problems... I hear the same things from women from Colombia...

Sure, latinas search for a better life... Why not with a foreign man who will love / respect them, not cheat, provide a higher standard of living and live in the "promised land" to boot... If I were in their shoes, I'd do the same thing... Things are whackier in Colombian than the other LA countries, but I think the fundamental motivations are still love and not politico...

I'm going to watch the "Killing Pablo" documentary again tonight... I caught it Monday night, but want to watch it again... It was a real eye opener for me... One thing I picked up from the show was the period of Colombian history known only as "La Violencia"... An era of such violence, that it can only be described as "the violence"... Armed insurrection in the streets, mass murders and rampant lawlessness... The show really did not go into much detail concerning this aspect of Colombian history... I may look for a book on Colombian history to read up on it... Generations of violence in Colombia intriques me to understand more on the subject... Maybe gain some enlightenment on the psyche of the latino, which seems to be the basis for these problems... Regardless whether it's motivated by drogas, power, money or sexo... The machista latino...

my 2 cents

[lswote]

... in response to Re: Colombia will always be a haven for ..., posted by wizard on Mar 29, 2003

A couple points I want to comment on.

First was that tonight I caught the tail end of "Killing Pablo" on the History Channel.  I had read Mark Bowden's book a year or two ago so I was familiar with most of what they had to say.  I said to my wife "hombre mal?" (my Spanish is terrible but I am trying) and she said no, actually the media made things worse than it was and that acually he helped many people too.  While I don't know if I agree with her, it does show that many Colombians don't think he was as bad as he is made out to be.

THe other point I wanted to mention was that my wife regularly talks about the two of us moving back to Bogota in the future, maybe as early as a year from now.  I am open to this for many reasons, though of course I have some concerns as well.  My point being that while my wife seems to like the US, she wants to go home where her family and friends are and while she wanted a gringo who would be faithful to her, she didn't necessarily want the gringo's country.

[Yalg]

... in response to Re: Re: Colombia will always be a haven ..., posted by lswote on Mar 30, 2003

Anyone who thinks Pablo Escobar was not "that bad" is in complete denial.  He blew up an Avianca jet just to try and kill one person, and thats not even the worst thing he ever did.  Its easy to give handouts to the poor in your hometown when you are a multi billinaire with enough money to pay off the national debt of Colombia.  There are always the few who prefer to live there, but the vast majority would hit the road if given the opportunity.  Just ask the various consulates who have applications stacked up to the ceiling......

[DavidMN]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Colombia will always be a ha..., posted by Yalg on Mar 30, 2003

They need to hire the company that provided services to the INS in California:
1) shred the applications,
2) no more backlogs.

[Dean]

... in response to Re: Re: Colombia will always be a haven ..., posted by lswote on Mar 30, 2003

Hi Bruce...
We also watched the program on the History channel.

Paty has similar sentiments as your wife....
The Colombians that I have talked to in the past seem to regard Pablo as some type of Robin Hood.

He did do a lot to help the poor people around Atioquia,
Although in terms of percent of his wealth I think it was a very small proportion.

Paty would also like to return to Bogota in the future to live at least part of the time there....apartment prices for a strata 3 or 4 are not unattractive....

Chao,

Dean

[lswote]

... in response to Re: Colombia will always be a haven for ..., posted by wizard on Mar 29, 2003

A couple points I want to comment on.

First was that tonight I caught the tail end of "Killing Pablo" on the History Channel.  I had read Mark Bowden's book a year or two ago so I was familiar with most of what they had to say.  I said to my wife "hombre mal?" (my Spanish is terrible but I am trying) and she said no, actually the media made things worse than it was and that acually he helped many people too.  While I don't know if I agree with her, it does show that many Colombians don't think he was as bad as he is made out to be.

THe other point I wanted to mention was that my wife regularly talks about the two of us moving back to Bogota in the future, maybe as early as a year from now.  I am open to this for many reasons, though of course I have some concerns as well.  My point being that while my wife seems to like the US, she wants to go home where her family and friends are and while she wanted a gringo who would be faithful to her, she didn't necessarily want the gringo's country.

[wizard]

... in response to Re: Re: Colombia will always be a haven ..., posted by lswote on Mar 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by wizard]

Hey Bruce...

Good to see that your still posting since you now fall into the "married" column!!! I hope things are going well with Mrs. Z's adjustment to the US... At least you live in an area of the US where her Ingles skills are not a problem...

I talked with Francy at length about the image that the average Colombiano has regarding Pablo Escobar... She said that many Colombians viewed Pablo as a saint, even though they knew he was a narco trafficer... He helped the lower class Colombians with money, built homes, funded schools and was viewed as a "people" type of guy... Now, he may have been using this as a ploy to gain popular support for his political agenda, which was to NOT be extadited to the US... But the point is that he did more for the lower class Colombiano than the government ever did... She knew of his terroristic activities, but still felt he did these things because he was being persecuted by the government... Kinda like Robin Hood... Steal from the rich and give to the poor...

Francy and I have also had similar conversations about living in Colombia... Early on, I told her that I enjoyed Bogota very much and would consider living there, at least part of the time... She was ecstatic... She really has no desire to leave Colombia and would jump at the chance to stay, but she had NO interest in a latino for a life partner... We will maintain a residence in Bogota and spend part of the year there and the rest of the year in the US... In a few years, we will move to Colombia for good... Francy has traveled all over Colombia and we both think that we would like to settle somewhere on the coast, probably Cartagena... We will spend a week there next month...

Things have gotten so crazy in the US over the last 2 decades, I have thought about going "expat" many times... Being able to escape the lunacy of the US is very appealing to me... Not to mention that fact that the USD goes much, much further in LA toward living a good life, as compared to the US...

Buen suerte...

Mark

[Yalg]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Colombia will always be a ha..., posted by wizard on Mar 30, 2003

He didnt help out the whole country, only around the Medellin area, so he really did nothing to help out most colombians.  Give the poor a few pesos does not give you carte blanche to murder whoever and whenever you want.    Its easy for me to understand why the average Colombian doesnt think he was so bad.  When you live in the murder and kidnapping capital of the world you get used to these things.

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: Colombia will always be a haven for ..., posted by wizard on Mar 29, 2003

Most of what you say is true. I do believe that the violence and terrorism plays a BIG part in many Colombianas desires to get out.

Brazilian men, Peruvian men, Venezuelan men, Dominican men etc all give colombianos a run for their money, heck Dominican men probably make them look like choirboys;-)

The truth is most Brazilian women are not looking to get out of Brazil, same with venezuela etc. If a Brazilian woman can meet a nice gringo that will move to brazil she would be happier than a pig in slop. If the violence continues the way it has in Colombia,, or returns to the levels of "la violencia", they will all want out.

So, will we ever see the same amount of agencies in brazil or DR etc? I doubt it.

[wizard]

... in response to Chicken or Egg?, posted by Ralph on Mar 30, 2003

[This message has been edited by wizard]

I think it comes down to motivation... Most of the women I have met from LA would prefer to stay in their home country, but their future is very bleak if they do... Their only real option is to marry outside their country, as most do not have the skills/money to escape their situation... Will they abandon their home country for a better life, yes... Do they like it, NO... I have only met two Colombianas that said they really WANT to leave Colombia... These were professional types that wanted to further their careers by coming to the "promised land"... Not what I would call marriage material...

Remember that alot of the violent crimes in Colombia happen outside of the larger cities, where there is little or no police presence... The economic strain is so great on the huddled masses that they resort to crime to support themselves... Not to mention the lack of education, psycological intimidation and that the historic thing to do is to turn to violence in order to survive... Sad but true... IMHO, the larger cities in Colombia are at least as safe as comparable cities in north america, if not safer...

Which came first, the chicken or the egg??? Well, the apple of course... lol...

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Colombia will always be a haven for ..., posted by wizard on Mar 29, 2003

You are right on. Almost all of the Latinas that wrote me when I was looking would volunteer that as the reason they were looking elsewhere (macho culture) I didn't even have to ask.

[Yalg]

... in response to Re: Re: Colombia will always be a haven ..., posted by Red Clay on Mar 29, 2003

Well then, tell me why there were virtually NO women from Argentina looking for foreign husbands, and no agencies until the USA banned their unrestricted travel rights to this country?  Food for thought....

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Colombia will always be a ha..., posted by Yalg on Mar 30, 2003

Sorry to disappoint, but I received several letters from ladies in Argentina while my ad was running back in 99, while their economy was still OK. Most every lady that wrote was well educated and doing much better than average for their respective countries career-wise. My wife had a tourist visa and had visited the USA before we ever met, she sure didn't need me to get here.

Heck, most of the Mexicanas/Latinas that are already here tell me the same thing.

[Yalg]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Colombia will always be ..., posted by Red Clay on Mar 30, 2003

That may be, but if you looked on the internet prior to the travel ban you almost never saw any mention of Argentina. There were no agencies and hardly any women on the various websites.  Now, they are coming out of the woodwork.  Having a tourist visa does not get you a green card.