Brazil Trip Report, Epilogue

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: So where do you go from here..., posted by Yalg on Mar 11, 2003

I hear what you are saying.The women can be so motivated to find a husband or come here they can seem to be interested in you,but its not natural attraction.And it can be hard to tell the difference.And you may think they will be so happy with what you can offer them that of course they will love you,they seem so motivated to be your wife.
If you meet the woman on your own,there is less likely this artificial response.A real response to you may be the thing that starts your relationship.Very very good point and warning.I understand how you may want to go the more difficult route of meeting to assure yourself there is real attraction.You just may avoid the biggest mistake guys make.
Its not impossible to determine real feelings in the agency encounter but unless you slow down and take lots of time it can be very difficult and a guy may just go for it because he likes what he sees and feels.If your not carefull you can project your feelings on to them.
Why do I know this so well?Thats a story not to be told right now,its still playing out.

Pete

[Ralph]

... in response to Very good points, posted by Pete E on Mar 11, 2003

In the agencies there is this emphasis on "interviews", what questions to ask etc. It is not unusual to hear a guy asking, "if we were to get married. .  . . .  ." this is within knowing the woman for oh. . .  . . .10 minutes. That is not a very natural occurence. I have never discussed marriage with a woman
in 10 minutes, 10 days, 10 weeks,. . . . .maybe 10 months.

Of course, doing things naturally, can take longer, and is certainly not for everyone, just as Cali and the agencies are not for everyone. The best method is the one that works for YOU.

[Ralph]

... in response to Very good points, posted by Pete E on Mar 11, 2003

In the agencies there is this emphasis on "interviews", what questions to ask etc. It is not unusual to hear a guy asking, "if we were to get married. .  . . .  ." this is within knowing the woman for oh. . .  . . .10 minutes. That is not a very natural occurence. I have never discussed marriage with a woman
in 10 minutes, 10 days, 10 weeks,. . . . .maybe 10 months.

Of course, doing things naturally, can take longer, and is certainly not for everyone, just as Cali and the agencies are not for everyone. The best method is the one that works for YOU.

[wizard]

... in response to Yes, posted by Ralph on Mar 11, 2003

Ralph said:

"The best method is the one that works for YOU"

No truer words have ever been spoken... Everyone's timetable, personal needs, time, money, desire, etc. are all different... We are all products of our own life experience, having our own agenda and perspective on what is right/wrong for us...

Of course being afforded the time & money to pursue a relationship in the "natural" way is better, but most of us can afford neither... Most of us, I would hazard a guess, are still tied financially to our home countries... So we have to make the best of our resources and travel to LA when we can... Being a very pragmatic society, we analyze the most expedient means to achieve a goal... Thus in good times, the agencies prosper...

As far as when is the right time to make a committment, again that's a matter of personal responsibility... Both to yourself and your future partner... No one questions couples in the US that have known each other for 6 months and get married... My best friend met his wife and married her in less than 2 months... They been together for over five years, raising a son and are doing just fine... There are no measuring stick for success or failure...

Sometimes I feel the members of this forum tend to over-analyze relationships... Granted, the purpose of this forum is to discuss the idiosyncrasies of meeting latin women... But we all bring our own experiences to the table and then we tend to deconstruct everyone else's experience... I guess it's just human nature...

There are NO guarantees in life or love...

The one common denominator is that we all KNOW that our options are much better abroad than at home...

my 2 cents

wizard

[Ralph]

... in response to So where do you go from here?, posted by Pete E on Mar 10, 2003

I agree that for the average guy, Colombia is the best place. My question is who strives to be average? Maybe we can take it a step further and the agencies can fly women to us;-) That would be great! We wouldn't even have to leave our living rooms;-)

I think you miss one of the main points from the posts. I remember you posting how bored you were on a trip to Colombia. That is a fact, if not looking for a wife or visiting agencies, Cali is a pretty boring place. Geoffrey, has stated he likes northern Brazil and will return there whether or not he is looking for a wife.

To me, that is the way to go. Travel, enjoy life, meet new people, learn about new cultures etc.

If you speak no spanish, can't dance a lick, are afraid to venture out and explore, don't have the confidence to ask Latinas you meet in normal circumstances out on dates, stick to the agencies.If you enjoy, exploring, visiting new towns and cities, talking to new friends etc etc etc, pick a place you always wanted to visit and just go.

I know the argument, that agencies shorten the time frame etc. If that is the case why are there guys that have been going to several different agencies for years? Wouldn't being an agency "vet" be an oxymoron?

[Pete E]

... in response to Strive to be "average"?, posted by Ralph on Mar 11, 2003

Its important for a guy to choose a plan of action that he can persevere at untill he is successfull.Our Brazil poster,for all his courage to go it alone to a place with nothing set up to accomodate his search other than a web site to mail women who seem only marginally interested in meeting a foriegn guy,had little success.They question comes up how long will it take to find a woman by this process and will he hang in there long enough to be successfull?For our poster the answer may be yes,but I think he is the exception.I'm not saying don't do it.If a guy has the right determination and enjoys the process he will certainly be ultimately successfull.
On the other extreme we have guys lurking here who have never taken their first trip.For them I would recommend choices with higher likelyhoods of success.
Let me give you an example.A guy I know went to Cali 2 years ago,but instead of going to agencies he hooked up with one girl he had been mailing and talking too.She was not the one for him,and  he basically wasted his whole trip being encumbered by her.He was very discouraged and may not go back,even though he is not doing well on the american dating scene,and he is a fairly good looking young guy.Money is an issue,he didn't have enough success to really motivate him to return.He may never go back.So even though he went to the right place the wrong choices left him with less than the success to motivate him to continue.
I guess I worry guys will give up or never go without really discovering the possibilities if they make the right choices.
Someone mentioned maybe he should just go to church socials.
Not likely to net him what he is looking for.Someone else mentioned being a "vet" in the agency priocess is an oxemoron.I think there is some truth in that.Its not that difficult.If you spend enough time looking and not finding to become a "vet" there appears to be someting wrong with the matrix of what you are looking for vs what you have to offer.Or ,more likely,the hunt has become more interesting than the desire to commit.
I certainly am not trying discourage guys who are willing to take alot of time going to the more obscure low probability places,I just hope they do not get discouraged.
Another issue and a reason to go to places like Brazil.Most Colombianas do want to come here.They also almost always want children.This may be fine for a young guy who wants the same thing.But perhaps a guy,possibly older,doesn't really want to bring a girl here and start a family.Maybe he seeks a woman who doesn't want kids,or any more kids.Maybe he is open to living in Latin America.Brazil might be a good choice.The women seem to be less interested in families and also leaving their country.Particullarly if the guy has the means to live in Brazil,maybe moving there first to take the 6 months or year it may take to find some one,it could be a good choice.And its a much safer place,in general,to live.
About the "average guy".I'm not talikng about striving to be the average guy so much as recognizing if you are one.You can speak little spanish(if you wait to learn it you may never go)and not be the kind of guy who will just go to a strange place on his own with no help.But if you are just willing to get on the plane there is a whole different world available to you.And its a whole lot better than the church social or what ever else you might have been doing.You can go to a place like Cali where you can meet as many women as you have time to,several a day if you want.You can go to an agency where they set it all up for you and even translate for you.You will have more choices than you ever thought possible.Now comes the difficult part,making good choices.Its hard to keep your head in the candy store.Women better looking than you ever had access to before will make your judgement susceptable to error.And error is very possible.Success is also very possible,in fact I think rather assured unless you screw up,which is the biggest risk.
So great adventurers and travel buffs go for it.If you want to travel for months or years and are not discouraged looking for the woman you seek,good for you.It is definetly more adventureous.
For guys who still haven't bought the first plane ticket,you might want to start where possitive outcomes are easier to come by.A place where you are so motivated by the possibilities that you will be inclined to continue untill you succeed.
Whatever your choice,get started and don't give up untill you succeed.

Pete

[Ralph]

... in response to My point is, posted by Pete E on Mar 11, 2003

This board is almost 100% Cali/Agencies. Even though many people found the Brazil posts interesting and informative, there always needs to be the "Colombia is better", "agencies are the best" posts. Not everyone is on a time table.

Can anybody here argue that being in a "rush" or "time table for success", can cause one to rush into things too quickly? Would not most of us prefer traveling? Spending a great deal of time in LA? etc etc etc. If Brazilophile, has no problem taking his time, exploring new cities and considered his trip successful, why dispute it? His goals and time frame might be different than most peoples.

Your buddy that went to Cali and was dissapointed etc. Unfortunately, there is not much to Cali besides agancies. Who here would pick Cali as a vacation spot? Nobody. Brazilophile on the other hand enjoyed himself, and posted that he likes northern brazil and wants to return, whether looking for a wife or not.

I remember one of my first trips to the DR. I spent my entire trip with one woman. Nothing ever came of it. Did I get depressed? Did I feel "unsucessful"? No! I had a GREAT time. I have great memories from that trip that I will never forget! That is because there was MUCH more to my trip than just that woman, as I believe most of Brazilophiles trip had more to do with Brazil than any one woman.

For point and click, ease of use, Cali wins. For great vacations, life experiences, culture, scenery, etc etc etc. . . . . . .Cali loses . . . . . big time.

I also think ones long term sucess would be better if one were able to take it slow. Heck, actually living in LA would certainly increase one's odds dramatically for LONG term.

[bogota vet]

... in response to And my point is. . . . . ., posted by Ralph on Mar 11, 2003

I would have to admit I would never to Bogota or Cali, if it were not for the women and agencies, I can think of far better vacation destinations.

Cali is literally boring as can  be after you have gone to the shopping malls, same in Bogota.

But I go, becasue I know some great women in a short amount of time.

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: And my point is. . . . . ., posted by bogota vet on Mar 11, 2003

That is great. That is a good reason to go. I just find it funny when people forget there are other reasons to visit a place, other than meeting women or going to agencies etc.

I was in brazil last summer and enjoyed both sao Paulo and Rio. I was looking forward to seeing the northern part but my meeting got cancelled. I was there soley on business and still enjoyed myself. I could definitely see myself returning for pleasure. I was already involved with my Dominican novia so meeting women never played a part.

It also helps that i love Churrascarias! If I moved to Brazil, I'd weigh 500 lbs!

[lswote]

... in response to My point is, posted by Pete E on Mar 11, 2003

I also admire Brazilophile for his courage, but for the majority of us, we either lack time, money or internal disposition to make such a trip.

I personally think there is nothing "average" about any guy who is willing to travel to another country in search of a mate.  But if you are to group all these extraordinary guys together, then the "average" extraordinary guy, is probably limited by time, money or internal disposition and the agency route offers the best chance of success for the "average" guy to find a mate under those limiting circumstances.  There is no guarantee using any approach but your odds are the highest using agencies.  And it certainly is the best way by far to get your feet wet and get out of that chair and onto an airplane.

[A1A]

... in response to Strive to be "average"?, posted by Ralph on Mar 11, 2003

Is much easier when you know the language of the country.  Brazilophile knows portugese, and has no travel limitations, Cali Vet knows spanish and is all over Colombia.  Mexico is easier to get around in with little spanish, but still no reason not to learn the language.  Take a spanish class, pick a country and go, a little spanish goes a long way talking with the women, whether you are in an agency in Colombia, or a mall in Mexico.
A1A

[Jeff S]

... in response to Strive to be "average"?, posted by Ralph on Mar 11, 2003

"For the guy who is somewhat shy about going, doesn't speak the native language and has a limited amount of time to spend looking" my advice is to stick to neighborhood church socials. Setting arbitrary time or finance schedules, or avoiding foreign languages and cultures in this endeavor is a recipe for disaster, in my opinion.

- Jeff S.

[Brazilophile]

... in response to So where do you go from here?, posted by Pete E on Mar 10, 2003

Pete,

I can't answer all your questions at this time but you did hit on a point that one lady I met also mentioned, courage to travel.  The woman who wanted to study outside Brazil asked me about how my search was going and about the women I met on the trips I had made.  Her sister, the LE lady I wrote to, commented that she thought I showed a lot of determination, perseverance, and seriousness in my search.  She said few Brazilian men showed similar focus.  I thanked for the compliment but explained that all the foreign men who travel here have those traits so she is seeing a select group, and if she were to travel to the US she would see the same type of men she sees in Brazil.  

Conclusion?  MAKE THE TRIP!!!