Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a

[Brazilophile]

On Sunday I went to explore the bay side of Salvador.  I was feeling adventurous.  I went to the lower city to get the buses that go along Ave. Suburbana (Afranio Peixoto) which is the main road around the northwest side of All Saints Bay.  I got on the first bus that was headed toward a neighborhood called Periperi and took it to the end of the line.  That terminus was at a beach area called Sao Tome de Paripe located about 15-18 miles northwest of downtown Salvador.  My distance estimate may be off because the road does a good deal of winding.  

How I learned the name of this town was an adventure in itself.  It had started to rain during the bus ride and when we de-boarded several riders sought shelter in one of the several snacks shops.  Beside me was a plain looking but voluptuous young woman and I put another listers advice about approaching women cold off the street into action.  I opened my map, explained that I was a tourist, and asked if she could show me where we were.  Well, she looked very put upon, pointed to the downtown, and said "You're in Salvador."  and then turned her back on me.  Her answer reminded me of the joke about the profession whose members give answers that are perfectly correct but absolutely useless.   A female vendor, also close to me, was able to tell me the name of the neighborhood but unable to show me on my map.  I asked a man sitting behind me but he was a tourist himself, from Rio de Janeiro, and couldn't help me.  The waiter motioned for me to come to him.  He showed me where this beach was on my map.  A patron who had become interested in my questions added that a port was off to the left and the ferry to Ilha do Mare was at the far end of the beach on the right.  This patron, the waiter, and I chatted until the rain let up.  The waiter paid me a big compliment by asking if I was from RJ.  He though I spoke Portuguese well enough to be from Brazil.  But when I related his remark to an Latin Euro lady, she replied that I did sound like a carioco.

[bogota vet]

... in response to Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by Brazilophile on Mar 3, 2003

Many people tout Brazil, but if it was so great to find a wife, why aren't there any agencies, and so few gringos coming back with wives?

[Texman]

... in response to Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by bogota vet on Mar 3, 2003

O.K.  I feel like a need to weigh in on the subject since I am marrying a beautiful Brazilian women this upcoming Friday (fly out of Dallas for Sao Paulo tomorrow night!!).  When I started this process, I mainly used LatinEuro and wrote to several girls in Colombia, Peru, Latin America, and Brazil.  I choose buying addresses over agencies mainly out of personal preference and financial reasons (didn't feel like dropping 500+ on a membership).  I ended up talking to several women from many of the countries, but only a few in what could be deemed a "serious" manor.  One was from Colombia, one from Peru, and 2 from Brazil.  Now I must admit, I was somewhat partial to Brazil, since I lived there three years as a child.  However initially, my contact with the Colombian women was probably the strongest.  Here are my impressions of the differences in the three countries:  Colombian women - very beautiful and very nice.  Good at telling you what you want to hear.  I always got a sense of urgency from them in wanting to leave the country.  Had some doubts about their sincerity.  How much was real love and how much was "I want to love him".  I felt that the situation and instability in the country was somewhat of a driving force in the relationship.  Many of them wanted to move very fast.  They saw America as the "promised land".  Peruvian women - very similar to Colombian women, but hard for me to say because I really only talked to two and only to one very seriously. The one finally came down to begging me to marrying her when I started to express my doubts in the viability of the relationship.  Turns out she has some relatives in the USA and if I would marry her, she could move here and be happy and I would never have to see her again.  Very bad......  Brazilian women - once again, very beautiful and very nice.  The country is a lot more stable, both economy wise and in governmental control, then many of the other countries in LA.  The women seemed quite a bit more sincere in their desire to find a good match rather then the quickest match.  Both women I talked to told me they had received letters from over 100 guys.  As one of the other guys pointed out, many of the inquiries were from Europeans, not many Americans.  I feel that part of this is that, up until the last year or so, traveling to Brazil was very expensive! (round trip ticket now costs around $700 from Dallas, use to run over $1500).  Plus you need to apply for and purchase a visa to go to the country (was $65, now is $100).  Colombia was much cheaper to fly too, stay in, and there were no hassles about visas.  In my visits to Brazil, I found absolutely no animosity towards the USA.  On the contrary, they are quite fascinated by the US and our culture.  I can't tell you how many retail stores I saw that used quite funny English names because they sounded exotic (Anyone want to eat at Happy Beef?)  Once people found out I was a North American (both men and women), they had a million and one questions.  I had to shoo away a few girls at the beach every time my fiancée went to the restroom.  Another comment I saw was that there wasn't a big selection of beautiful women to choose from in Brazil.....  my only response is, have you ever been to Brazil??  My neck muscles got quite a workout at the beach and the various malls I went too.  The women are very feminine, romantic, and loving.  Everything I was looking for.  The parts of Brazil I visited had a definite "European" feel (Sao Paulo and surrounding areas).  Many coffee shops, outdoor bars and restaurants, cheek kissing, and Ciao's.  Currently, there are over 2000 Brazilian women on the LatinEuro site, with roughly 12 new ones added a week.  I have a friend at work who is currently communicating with a women he found on LatinEuro, his experiences have been very similar to mine.  I also have 2 other friends that have sent off for addresses.  All in all, I would categorize myself as one of the ones touting the Women of Brazil.

[ConfederateDave]

... in response to Re: Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by Texman on Mar 4, 2003

Texman,

Congrats of the Marriage.  I too think that I have found the one in Brazil.  Would you mind emailing me when you get back, I have some questions I would like to ask you.  Olemis1@hotmail.com.

Thanks

David

[Onephd]

... in response to Re: Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by Texman on Mar 4, 2003


I don't think you're touting Brazil at all. I think you are telling us your story with honesty and good justification. Most importantly its your opinion and I for one can respect that.

I would love to hear stories from your friends about their experiences as well.  I think we need to hear about more success stories from Brazil.  

The only 'negative' thing I will say is Latineuro does have 2000 women, but the problem is they seldom remove or replace the older ones. Some of those women are married and long gone.  I have a friend that I met in Brazil who is attempting to know end to get them to remove his soon to be wife.  Hopefully you will have better luck getting your wife's photo removed.

For the record I was in Sao Paulo and honestly I didn't see incredible looking women there(Although I have heard that Bahia and other coastal cities have more beautiful women however). Regardless that wasn't the most important thing for me since to me the true beauty of Latin women is their sprit and belief in true love[beautiful women are everywhere in every country IMHO].  

Best of luck!!

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by bogota vet on Mar 3, 2003

There are agencies.  But they are not owned and operated by Americans for Americans.  Many are owned by Europeans and most cater to Europeans, Germans in particular.  Many Brazilians do marry Europeans and go to Europe to live.  Many Europeans marry Brazilians and stay in Brazil to live.  

The better question is why aren't Americans and Brazilians clicking in terms of romantic encounters.  Part of the answer is politics.  Most Brazilians perceive the US as being hostile to Brazil.  There are high tarrifs on Brazilian agricultural products such as orange juice and the US has high visa fees for Brazilians to enter the US.  In contrast, Brazilians do not need a visa to enter any EU country.  

Something else that I discovered is that the women there are not really interested in long distance relationships (letter and phone calls).  If you are not face to face with them they do not take your intentions seriously.  As Colombia is easier to travel to than Brazil, many American men take the 5 hour flight to Cali (from Miami) than the 11 hour flight to Sao Paulo.

[Onephd]

... in response to Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by bogota vet on Mar 3, 2003


Good Question.  Can't compare Brazil to Colombia as I have not visited Colombia, but as far as I can tell, Brazil just doesn't have the quantity of women that men claim Colombia does.   Their are good women in Brazil, but they run few and far in between IMHO.  Not nearly enough for me to solely focus on them. (however, my opinion is based on one 10 days visit to Sao Paulo, perhaps other cities offer better).  I have met some Brazilians living in the US for school and for the most part, they don't like it here for different reasons.  Those who had money in Brazil live high on the hog in Brazil and their life here is far from what they are used to in Brazil.  Those without money are basically 3rd world and they don't seem to have a burning desire to leave Brazil to better their condition.  Brazil does not appear to have a middle class.  I could be wrong, and I would love to hear some reports that state otherwise.  Also Brazilians don't have dreams of visiting or living in America.  

As far as an agency in Brazil. I don't think many Brazilian women could understand the concept and accept a man meeting 10 different women in a day.  Also from my understanding, many Brazilian women are not interested in any intangible quality that a man can bring such as honesty, stability or integrity or faithfulness.  Many (not all) women of Brazil are as much(if not more)concerned about looks as some of the men that visit Colombia looking for 19 year old hard bodies.  

Anyway, threes more to this than can be put in a post.  

Again, I think its a good question.  Perhaps one day we will know the answer to it.  For now, I'm looking forward to visiting Colombia or somewhere else.  To each his own. Some men will love Brazil and some will not.  Some men will love Colombia and some will not.

[Bueller]

... in response to Re: Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by Onephd on Mar 4, 2003

[This message has been edited by Bueller]

"Their are good women in Brazil, but they run few and far in between IMHO."

 There are good women in Brazil, scads of them. With such a large population, there is every type of person.

 "Brazil does not appear to have a middle class. I could be wrong, and I would love to hear some reports that state otherwise."

 There is quite a bit of inequality here, due largely to political corruption and an underdeveloped market economy. Minimum salary is R$200 per month (US$56 at today's rate), which many people attempt to raise a family on. Others make R$800-1200 per family and manage. Really, about US$500 and above gets a household by reasonably well, but inflation is starting to squeeze people. The past couple of months it hasn't been unusual for me to buy something at the supermarket that has had the price sticker torn off and replaced twice.

"Also Brazilians don't have dreams of visiting or living in America."

 No one you talked to, maybe, but it seems every other Brazilian I meet has a relative living in Florida, New York, Boston, or Atlanta, and plenty of them would at least like to visit, if it weren't so darned expensive for them right now. There is a lot of anti-U.S. disinformation in the Brazilian media currently; if the Brazilian media were my only source of news, I would dislike and distrust my country and my president. One of the most ridiculous excesses of disinformation being spread around, but certainly not the only one, is this hoax that the U.S. has taken over the Amazon jungle because the Brazilians couldn't be trusted with such an important piece of land: http://www.quatrocantos.com/lendas/54_amazonia_finraf.htm . For those of you who don't read Portuguese and don't want to run that whole urban legends page through a translation program, just click on the photo of the "textbook page", supposedly in wide use in U.S. middle schools. Any native speaker of English can see it was not written  by a native speaker, but nonetheless this hoax was picked up by a major São Paolo newspaper and reported as news. Many people here now know it's BS, but there are plenty of people who still think it's true. And who wouldn't get angry about the content of this "textbook page"? The government has an interest in fomenting resentment of the U.S. in order to take attention away from its own fecklessness, corruption, and incompetence, of course.

"As far as an agency in Brazil. I don't think many Brazilian women could understand the concept and accept a man meeting 10 different women in a day."

 They also tend to suspect agencies as being fronts for prostitution.

 "Also from my understanding, many Brazilian women are not interested in any intangible quality that a man can bring such as honesty, stability or integrity or faithfulness."

 I had a conversation with my (reputable, of course ;-) )massage therapist last week. She is divorced with two grown children, and a Gaúcha (from Rio Grande do Sul, the furthest south state, whose capital, Porto Alegre, is renowned for having pretty women, and quite an imbalance of them over men). Here is how I recapped the conversation in my journal right afterward, so as not to have to restate it:

  Women here are reluctant to get involved in a relationship because they don't want to get hurt. There are more women than men, and men take full advantage of that. After a few years of marriage men get bored, and a garota do programa (whore) is perfect because she doesn't charge anything beyond money. Men are pretty casual and shameless about having a girlfriend or three. So even women with important positions may get married for appearances, then tolerate and even engage in adultery. It is rare to find a long-married couple where the man has never cheated on his wife, but the women put up with it because they often have a comfortable lifestyle within the marriage, which they would lose if they got divorced. IOW, for all its immaturity and lack of professionalism, LatinEuro is right: the men in Brazil are no good-- in general, of course.

 So going back to the statement, "Many Brazilian women are not interested in any intangible quality that a man can bring such as honesty, stability or integrity or faithfulness," it would be a lot more accurate to say that there is a certain jadedness that tells them they can't find these qualities in a man-- but of course they would love to. Sure, there are probably dysfunctional types just like in the U.S.; go to www.amazon.com and see the book "Nice Guys Don't Get Laid", by Marcus P. Meleton. One of his final remarks is something like, "Of course, one option for nice guys is to date Asian women. For some strange reason, stability, reliability and gentlemanliness are not considered to be drawbacks in their culture [sic]."

 "Many (not all) women of Brazil are as much(if not more)concerned about looks as some of the men that visit Colombia looking for 19 year old hard bodies."

 I don't know about this one, either. I see couples all over town where the man is just average looking and the woman is rather pretty. Maybe where you went it's different; Brazil is vast and varied, just like the U.S.

[Onephd]

... in response to Let's address some fallacies about Brazi..., posted by Bueller on Mar 5, 2003

First let me say great post! I would like to readdress several things for clarity.

"There are good women in Brazil, scads of them. With such a large population, there is every type of person."

I agree to a certain degree but the point I'm after is how easy or difficult it is to find those interested in an inter-cultural relationship and subsequent marriage.    

"There is quite a bit of inequality here, due largely to political corruption and an underdeveloped market economy. Minimum salary is R$200 per month (US$56 at today's rate), which many people attempt to raise a family on. Others make R$800-1200 per family and manage. Really, about US$500 and above gets a household by reasonably well, but inflation is starting to squeeze people. The past couple of months it hasn't been unusual for me to buy something at the supermarket that has had the price tag torn off and replaced twice."

That's about it...  As my Portuguese and Brazilian friends state, "Brazil is both 1st and 3rd world.  The Brazilians I know here in school often speak of the horrible school system they have back home.  I think this leads to a lot of problems.  I also think that hinders the process of finding a wife there, but that's another post.  :-)

"Many (not all) women of Brazil are as much(if not more)concerned about looks as some of the men that visit Colombia looking for 19 year old hard bodies." (my post)

"I don't know about this one, either. I see couples all over town where the man is just average looking and the woman is rather pretty. Maybe where you went it's different; Brazil is vast and varied, just like the U.S."(your post)

Basically I'm not talking about the Brazilian couples. That much is true regarding them. I did see average men with women that were slightly above average. Actually I'm referring to the women that seek men abroad.  I have pretty reliable information that lots of Brazilian women are seeking blonde hair and blue eyes.  Thus they too are looking for what is exotic to them.  I'm not saying anything is wrong with this as we all have our preferences, but I think it should be made clear that many/some Brazilians appear to be more materialistic and physical than what I "hear" about other Latin women.  When I visit other Latin countries, I'll be better able to speak about this.

For example, I was attending a 4th of July picnic last year with the Brazilian club at my university in Michigan.  I was talking to a married Brazilian lady about my upcoming trip and my lady internet friend I was going to meet.  The very first question she asked me was about the color of her skin.  I told her that the woman was a morena clara.  This part is hard for me to explain as you needed to be there, but she just had a look on her face indicating how important she seemed to think her question was.  She appeared to be very satisfied (indicated by  her thumbs up) that the woman was a morena.  Maybe because she was a morena she thought this was good.  I'm not sure.  At the time I didn't give it much thought.  After visiting Brazil and having a Brazilian girlfriend, things became more clear.  1 year later, after meeting more Brazilian women and discussing the issue of race moreso, I can see that race, which is no more than skin color in Brazil is an important factor for many women.  I've read post on other boards that seem to also state similar perspectives. This is what I mean by Brazilian women not being overly concerned with intangible qualities.  Again this seems to contradict the typical story I "hear about" Latin women in general.  Basically I think the race issue in Brazil is difficult for many to understand.  I'll admit I still don't get it all the time.  I do correspond with women that don't give a damn about skin color or physical attributes, but to be honest that is the exception more than the rule from my experience.  To me its not about race however, its more about their preferences for certain physical qualities(for whatever reason, sometimes it's purely physical taste and sometimes its perceived social/economic status).  

To me this is just as bad as the men that go to Brazil or Colombia looking for a 19 tan hard body while ignoring the education and personality.  I guess both men and women that search for someone abroad believe they have to "raise the bar" for some reason.
   

Anyway, as I said Great post.  I would love to hear more about your views and perspectives on Brazil and why we don't see more marriages and such.  This was the original post and we got slightly off topic.  Its nice to hear about Brazil for a change on this board.

[Bueller]

... in response to Great Post Bueller, posted by Onephd on Mar 5, 2003

"I would love to hear more about your views and perspectives on Brazil and why we don't see more marriages and such."

 I think Ralph covered it below. The agency activity is mostly in Colombia, and this board is agency-centered-- not a thing in the world wrong with that, of course. Just because other countries don't get talked about as much here, though, doesn't mean there isn't any dating and marriage going on. I respect other guys' choices of going to Colombia or wherever; Brazil isn't the only country in LA. It would be nice of certain people to remember that Colombia isn't either.

[bogota vet]

... in response to Re: Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by Onephd on Mar 4, 2003

The crux if the issue maybe how easy is it to meet a woman while on vacation and get her into a marriage relationship in Brazil?  as compared to Colombia?

Is Brazil only applicable to men with large amounts of time?  As unromantic as it be, logistics have to be considered.

[Yalg]

... in response to Re: Re: Brazil Trip Report, Part 4a, posted by Onephd on Mar 4, 2003

You said "Brazil does not have the quantity of women that Colombia does."  Colombian population around 32 million or so, Brazil 150 million or so.  I could be off, but its an enormous difference.  If you are implying that Brazilian women are not as good looking in general as Colombianas then I would say you are blind, or you were drunk during your entire stay there.  I personally have never met anyone who has actually gone to Brazil and who  not immediately make plans to go back.  If you think Colombian women are hot and sexy, then expect it even more so in Brazil.  If you think that Colombian women are better wives than Brazilians then I would say you are ignorant and blatantly one-sided.  There is no basis for this statement and no way to back it up.  The fact is, Americans just dont go to Brazil to look for wives because the infrastructure to find one in Colombia is so well established and much closer and cheaper to get to.  Plus, you dont need a visa to go to Colombia.  Europeans have discovered Brazil and almost exclusively look for wives there.  I totally disagree with your statement that Brazilians feel in conflict with Americans because of tariffs or whatever else you claimed. The average Brazilian woman doesnt know, or doesnt give a sh#t.  Truth be known, if you go to brazil as an American and present yourself well and are at least decent looking you are instant celebrity if you stay out of Rio or Sao Paolo. Even there though, you will have your pick of so many women that your head will spin off.  There are cities that are serviced by air from Rio and Sao Paolo that are gold mines.  Belo Horizonte, Manaus, Recife, Salvador, etc. etc. etc. where you would be so sought after you probably go in debt to travel back there ASAP.  I dont know what happened to you in Sao Paolo, but it certainly is not typical to hear someone say that the women are not so hot there, its laughable at best and insane at worst.  The street hookers are better looking than the average agency girl in Cali. Most of us know that the best looking women in Cali do not join agencies, or anywhere for that matter, they dont need to.

In conclusion, Brazil is paradise for the single man and that includes finding a wife or whatever else tickles your fancy.  Its just that Colombia is alot more convenient.

[colman]

... in response to I get to differ...., posted by Yalg on Mar 4, 2003

.

[Yalg]

... in response to correction--Colombian pop.=42.4 Brazil 1..., posted by colman on Mar 4, 2003

Oh, excuse me.....I wasnt perfect with the figures but it really doenst matter does it?  It still works out the same basically.  I guess Im not an almanac such as yourself, but only you would really care to give such exacting figures only to dis-credit someone making a general statement.  If you read the PHD's post, it was obvious he didnt have such a good time in Sao Paolo for ten days, which to me, is quite impossible...IMHO, only a loser could spend ten days in SP and give this type of post....if he would re-read his own words then he would stop making excuses and stop putting the onus on other people to validate his shi%%y stay there.  As for you charbroil, I still think you are way to militant for your own good........

[colman]

... in response to Re: correction--Colombian pop.=42.4 Braz..., posted by Yalg on Mar 5, 2003

using ratios the 32 million pop you stated vs. actual Colombian population of over 42 million--the same equation using the actual U.S. popluation of 274 million your mistake would have made you think U.S. had about 183 million thats almost 100 million people off! But I am glad you now correctec and understand your mistake and your welcome--Colman