Raising children: Training is a bad thing?

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: Raising children: Training is a bad ..., posted by rob4050 on Mar 7, 2003

About investing time. That is very true. My novia's son had not seen his dad in 3 years, as the dad currently lives in the US. Dad sends down money to pay for school and stuff every month, but calls maybe once or twice a month. When dad came to visit before the holidays, he was in the country 3 days before sending his cousin to pick up his son! I have no children of my own, but can not understand how after not seeing your son for 3 years, you can wait another 3 days. My first stop from the airport would be to see my kid.

The result, when the kid is on the phone with his Dad, all he ever talks about is what dad has to buy him. He wants more games for his gameboy, all kinds of toys etc etc etc. The father is supporting the kid somewhat financially but nothing else really.

The kid, rarely ever asks me to buy him anything, and when he wants a package of Spiderman stickers that cost 3 pesos, he is embarassed to ask, and happy as all get out when I buy them for him. So he is not a very selfish, materialistic kid. His father is just conditioning him to expect material things and little else.

I was unfortunately back in the states on his birthday. He asked his mom 100 times if I was going to call to wish him a happy birthday. Didn't ask once if his dad would call. That is sad.

Time and attention are worth way more than expensive presents and money.

[Ralph]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

I am in a similar situation with my novia's son who just turned seven. He was the biggest brat, always whined, never listened to his mom etc etc etc. In fact the kid's grandmother on the father's side told my novia she would never be able to find a man that would put up with him.

Within a week of me living here, everyone noticed an 80% improvement! The first time I ever took him out with us, he refused to put on his seatbelt. Whined etc etc etc, and the mom let him get away with it. The next time we were going out, I explained that we were going to the circus, but if he took the seatbelt off, I'd make a U turn and take him home. The belt stayed on, and after the circus he couldn't put it on, but spent the ENTIRE ride trying!

I took him to the beach with us once and made him promise to behave. The first several hours he was an angel.I bought him a n inflatable dolphin to play with. Then I ordered lunch and I went to go call him. He just laughed and continued swimming. I told him lunch was ready. He still laughed. I sent his Mom to call him, she spent 45 minutes chasing him in the water, and he just laughed at her. I gave up on lunch and headed inside to the bar. When she finally got him to come, she had him change and we left. As we got outside, I threw his dolphin in the garbage and drove home in silence. His Mom told me that night he asked why I did that and when she explained, he said I was a bad man. The next time I needed to drive him someplace, I didn't talk to him. He was very concerned. He asked his mom why I was mad at him. She explained that it was because he didn't listen to me. I corrected her, and explained it was more because he didn;t listen to his mom. Also he promised to behave and then broke that promise, making a fool out of his Mom. I asked him who the most important person in the world was. He said his Mommy. I asked him why he wanted to make her look foolish and make her sad. He just shrugged. I told him that his behavior was VERY bad and I would not go out with him unless he promised to never act that way again.

OK, so my first week of me actually living here, my novia and her son had already been in the apartment 3 weeks. The kid was NEVER allowed outside to play! One night he asked me if he could go outside. I said, sure, if you come immediately when I or his Mom called. He promised, gave me a hug and went out to play. At one point, I couldn't see where he was and called him, he came running up the stairs. I told, him I just needed to make sure he was OK, and he could continue playing. He skipped back down the stairs.

Later, when dinner was ready his Mom called and he came right up. She was AMAZED! Unfortunately, later on they argued over his not eating all his dinner and he ran out the door! She went down after him and he repeated the beach behavior, of laughing and disobeying her. She spent 20 minutes literally chasing him with no luck.

She came up the stairs and asked me "what's next". I told her to go get his pillow, and sneal up behind him. Then hand him the pillow, and say if he wants to stay in the street he can sleep there. She did this and the look on his face was priceless. She returned upstairs and he just stared at the pillow for a few seconds, but then ran up the stairs. Of course I had already locked the door! He kept knocking. Finally I opened the door and said, if you want to stay in the street when your mom calls you can live there. I left him out in the hall way for maybe an hour. When I went out there, he was curled up on the stairs, with the pillow.

I asked him if he wanted to spend the night there, or in his bed. he sheepishly said in his bed. I told him to march inside, apoplogize to his Mom and go right to bed. He did so. The next week he wanted to go out every night and of course I said no. I also explained to him why. I told him that his mom was the queen of the house and I was the king, and if he doesn't listen he is disrespecting us.

After a week, we let him go out again and have NEVER had the same problem come up.

[Ralph]

... in response to similar situation - Part 1, posted by Ralph on Mar 7, 2003

Ok, so now I seem like a tyrant with kids. When he first started behaving much better, listening to Mom, saying please, thank you and excuse me, knocking before entering, everyone was AMAZED. When friends and family asked how he changed so fast, she told them that he was afraid of me. I told her it was not fear but respect. I was very hard on him when he was bad, but treated him great when he behaved.

Ok, so one day we go food shopping and he starts whining that he wants Tic Tacs. Cinammon Tic Tacs which he actually hates. He was such a brat, and she came very close to buying them just to shut him up. I explained that that would be rewarding bad behavior and would just bring more bad behavior. I let him whine the whole time, and then explained that he would NEVER get anything by whining again. I also told him he was not allowed out the next night. He understood. Every time I punsihed him, I would explain why.

So, a few weeks later we go to a different Circus. Whenever the lights go out, he would come over to me and hug me for comfort. I looked at her and said, tell me again how he is afraid of me!
Whenever we cross the street, he looks to hold my hand, I ask her, is he afraid of me? She now realizes that like most kids his age he was looking for an authority figure and she wasn't providing it.

When he behaves, we have a great time. I take him to the beach most weekends, we have gone to several baseball games, the movies etc. What he really enjoys is just he and I playing Catch, or basketball outside. His big treat, is now after we get done playing etc. he and I will walk a few blocks to the mini mart in the Texaco station. We'll buy him a bag of chips and a Pinapple Fanta. I get a bottle of soda for me and we walk back home. this is when we "bond".

One night he introduced me to two friends along tha way. He then told me has a "pana". I never heard the word before so he had to explain it meant, best friend. I said that was good. He asked me if I wanted to know his name? I said sure. He pointed at me and said "tu".

His mother can't believe how far he has come. the only recent problems has been getting him to take homework seriously. he would just go through the motions and guess answers, hoping Mom would "help" him do the homework. I have taken a more active role, including giving him other homework to do. the school was having him try to add double digit numbers, when he wasn't sure how to add single digit. Heck there were times he would know the answer was 9 but would write a 7, as he hadn't fully learned that yet.

I sometimes yell, sometimes get in his face, to make sure he knows it is serious. I tell him, if he doesn't do his homework well, I will give him homework to last the whole day. In fact we have spent days where every time he finished on page, I gave him another. It is great watching when he starts to actually understand and get the answers right. he high 5s me etc etc etc.

At one point, I was talking very strongly, bordering on yelling about the homework. My novia was watching. She even noticed that he would be holding back a little smile while I was "yelling". Not a disrespectful smile but one that sort of said " man, to yell like that, I must be pretty darn important to this guy".

As I'm writing this, he just knocked on the door, waited till I told him he could enter and told me he ate the entire Wendy's meal I brought home for him last night. he was very proud. I told him he had to go to school now. He smiled and said mas tarde papi as he waved and closed the door.

[Pete E]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

Steve,
This can be very frustrating.I think you need to have an agreement with the mother about the desired outcome and let her handle it in her way.For instance,with the kid not wanting to move to go to school,let her handle it.If she doesn't and he doesn't get to school let her take the heat for it.They will have a bi lingual teacher who can explain the rules to her.
It might be more difficult with his behavior that only bothers you.I would try to get her to agree on a set of rules or what conduct is neccesary.Part of this discussion might be what you can do or what the penalty is if he doesn't comply.I know thats easier said than done.But you being the authoritarian without her agreement will not work.
If nothing else works maybe you need a bi lingual counsoler to help set up rules.
I know its a big pain in the a-s.I had to restrain myself not to just kick my step son in the butt when he first came here.I told him one time if I did that my father would have
--Showed him the motion of slapping the hell out of him.My wife got very angry.She said her parents never hit her.Well I found out that was not true at all.She hits him and chews his butt something fierce,but I don't. Mostly he is a good kid now and doesn't bother me.We have a good relationship.
But his mother will get all over him.I just sort of stay out of it.He will be 12 this month.A little spoiled but a very good and sensitive kid.
I know,its hard to let go of the old way of handling it.If I talked back to my father he would have knocked me across the room.He never had to,because I knew he would.
There is the old "I " message thing.Instead of trying to correct the kid yourself try to explain to her how it makes you feel when he does whatever.I know it may not translate.
I admit to being very judgemental in this area even before marrying my wife.I would be driving down the street and here is a little 2 year old Latino kid walking in the street,no mother around.Or the behavior in the store,or worse yet the behavior when the kids get to be teenagers.My thought was what is it about being Latino that makes you let your kids run wild?Sometimes I think there are just so many kids they give up on trying to keep track of them.Maybe its the way they were raised.Perhaps in a village where the kids couldn't get in too much trouble.
This could be a deal breaker and you need to explain that to your wife.Very sensitively,they don't like to be told what to do.The counsoler is the last resort.Don't kick him in the butt,as I was tempted to.I would walk away fuming thinking of doing just that.Fortunately I restrained myself.Our rather stupid politically correct laws frown on that.One bruise and you could go to jail.
I remember a story my father told of he and his cousin at about 8 years old going to a place on their ranch in Oregon his uncle had told them not to go because of rattle snakes.When the uncle found them there they walked home with the uncle on his horse kicking them in the butt every few feet.My family was Spanish Basque.Let me tell you there was none of this spoiled kid act at all.

Pete

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

I agree with your wife.  I saw an interview once with Dr. Phil and he believes in raising children without the traditional doggie discipline.  You might succeed in controlling the kid, but turn him into a typical wounded moron adult.  We already have enough of those. Maybe you can find something on Dr. Phil's website that will help you get the skills you need to preserve the peace of your home without damaging a child.  Besides, if you don't do something intelligent, it sounds like you wife may leave you.  Good luck.

[A1A]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

First, I agree with your wife, lose the word "training", I prefered teaching my kids also.  That is about all I agree with her on.  Obviously the child knows what he can get away with, and love has nothing to do with it.  It is about respect.  He has no respect for parental figures since he knows his mom will give up, and he knows his mom does't like you giving "orders".  So what do you do?  When my kids were younger and whining, I told them not to talk to me, I didn't talk with whining kids.  After a while, they would come back, ok.  As far as the "rag doll" slump goes, leave him there, if he is late for school, so be it.  He needs to learn such behavior is not right for his age, and will be disiplined for it.  Now all you need to do is work with your wife, she needs to do more than just love him, help her realize love, disipline and respect all go together.
A1A

[Hiker]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

Every culture has its good and bad points.  You hit on what in my opinion is one of the worst points of the Latin culture.  It is nothing to see a 5 or 6 year old boy in Mexico still drinking from a bottle.  It seems a little more is expected from the girls.  I think the "Latin Temper" can really be attributed to spoiled little boys who never grew up.  Where I live is about 50 percent hispanic and the other 50 percent is white and black.  Go to Walmart and you are promised to see at least 3 or 4 good temper tantrums thrown in the floor and it is always a hispanic baby with the parents trying to kiss his ass to make him happy again.  I see this many times a day around here.   I met a girl in Colombia who I was very interested in.  Her child wanted something in Exito and the mother said no.  That fit should have won some kind of award or trophy.  For the mother it was nothing.  I never called her again.

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: Raising children: Training is a bad ..., posted by Hiker on Mar 7, 2003

Rewarding bad behavior with ass kissing is going to bring nothing but MORE bad behavior. After a while it becomes very hard to break that cycle. I did it rather quickly.