Raising children: Training is a bad thing?

[Ralph]

... in response to Muchas gracias, posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 7, 2003

You can not do much on your own. the Mother needs to support you and also be consistent. My buddy had that problem with his wife and step daughter. The mother was very lenient on her daughter. The girl was a brat. She had to stay down here for almost a year, after my buddy brought his wife to the states. During this time she stayed at a family friends home and I also visited as much as possible. She turned into the sweetest little girl. There are still problems now that they are all stateside.

In my case my novia realized VERY quickly that her son's behavior improved greatly in a short period of time. She has made the necessary adjustments etc. It has gotten to the point where he knows when he has done something wrong and knows he needs to be punished a bit. I travel fairly often and if she did not act consistently, every time I leave, I would return to find a little brat again. Fortunately, she is doing well in remaining consistent.

In fact the other day, I "punished" her. Her son needed his pencil sharpened to do his homework and she had friends over.
She told him to wait as she was busy. That does not work. We can't make him think that homework and school is very important and then put chatting with friends ahead of it.

So. . . .after I explained that to her and she sharpened his pencil. I helped him with his schoolwork. he tried hard and did it well, so we went for one of our walks to the mini mart, for chips and soda. His Mom told me to bring her back some cookies. When we got to the mini mart, the son got the cookies she wanted and I put them back. I explained that Mom was getting "punished" for not taking his homework seriously. He smiled. Now, he knows that homework needs to be priority 1 and not just when it is convenient for us. Someday, when I screw up, I'll need to get "punished" as well.

[JunFanDallas]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

Steve,
Couple of questions:

How long was your 'courtship' with the second woman, and how many trips & and how much time did you spend with her BEFORE you were engaged?

So, did you not pick up on any of the children's behavior during your 'courtship' of this woman while you were in Colombia?

Of the time you spent with her in Colombia, what percentage did you spend only with her, and what percentage did you spend  with the entire 'family' unit observing how they interact with one another and with you?

Good luck,
Mike

http://www.sparhard.com/colombia.htm

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Just for the record...., posted by JunFanDallas on Mar 7, 2003

Mike

You don't have to connect the dots for me.  I see that a lot of this is a result of the circumstances of the courtship.  And the possibility that Latinas may have different ideas about how to raise their children may well be another reason that men should think twice about marrying a woman from another country.  That is part of the reason I posted the issue here.

We met in April, 2002.  I saw her again in June, 2002 and July, 2002.  She arrived here September 8, 2002.  Total time together about 15 days.  Total time with children about 8 days, but most of the time not with the children.  We had about 2 or 3 "family outings".  I did see the behavior problems of her son the very first day I met him and I told her of my concerns in April, 2002.  

There were many times that I considered breaking off the relationship with her for this very reason.  But she kept pushing and I kept sliding.  I don't know how much of this I have posted here before, but she was after me like a hound.  She wanted me to call every day, talk longer on the phone, come back soon, spend more time with her, marry her fast.  That's hard to walk away from.

As Steve Martin used to say "I blame myself".

Steve

[Aaron]

... in response to Re: Just for the record...., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 7, 2003

Well,

I'm not going to attack you, but there are red flags all over this scenario.

From what you are saying about the incident with your wife's son, I totally agree with you. There's no excuse for that behavior.

However, don't jump to conclusions that this is how most Latinos (specifically speaking Colombianos) raise their children. From my experience with Colombian families and friends, they tend to value the same concepts about discipline and respecting authority as most good American families do. One thing that I like about Latin families is the concept of having close ties, and supporting family members. I think American families don't place as much emphasis on that. Instead we stress independence, which isn't bad, but in most cases results in selfishness and isolation. I don't like that.

Well, other things about your scenario is that you really jumped into things quickly, and you didn't seem like you were totally aware of her baggage. Also, it seems like she was pressuring you into getting married quickly.

Aaron

[Hiker]

... in response to Re: Just for the record...., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 7, 2003

An issue like this is not about blame or what is smart or dumb, or whatever.  If we all could base our decisions on hindsight everything would be perfect.  

[Yalg]

... in response to Re: Just for the record...., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 7, 2003

Believe me, some guys only spend a long weekend in Cali and come back engaged.  Beyond insane....I dont know how to describe this type of behavior other than sheer desperation.  It has to be.  Some guys are so lonely (and horny) they will meet and decide to marry a girl at the first party or meeting they have on the very first night. I have witnessed it and all I can say is that it always strikes me as the most bizarre and circus like atmosphere when this occurs.  I believe it takes 6 months to one year of living together to know whether you are truly in love, and even thats not enough to be successful.  So much other crap to deal with and get over...Why do we continue to do this?  I ask that myself every day.

[wizard]

... in response to Your not alone...., posted by Yalg on Mar 7, 2003

Everyone is motivated by different factors in continuing this pursuit... You know why you continue... It's to find someone who possesses the same values as you and is genuinely seeking a life-partner... The options are much better in LA than in the USA... This is the lure that draws us into the crazy search... Not to mention the fact that the market is much, much better in LA than at home... Beautiful ladies, sweet personalities and a genuine interest in meeting you...

Like you, I used to ask myself daily just what I expected to come from this pursuit... I almost gave up the search after one uneventful trip to LA... After many trips, many dates and many, many women, I finally found the one... When you finally meet that one girl, you will know... As you have duly noted, you shouldn't let your emotions outweigh your better judgement though, ie: red flags, hidden agendas and sharks in the water...

Again, like you, I have been witness to the "one trip wonders"... The guys that propose in the first trip, simply because they found someone who said yes... Scary, but true... I wish these guys good luck, as IMHO they have a hard row to hoe... On a recent trip, I witnessed an extremely overweight gringo propose to a very attractive and young colombiana on his first trip... She said yes to my disbelief... All you can do is stand back, wonder at their individual motivations and wish them well... I spoke with my novia last night and she told me that she ran into a girl who is a member of the agency where we met... The girl told my novia that she got married to a norte americano... The girl is 20yo and her esposo is 62yo... I'm afraid this one is doomed from the very start...

On the other side of the coin, I know guys who have been at this pursuit for years... They travel to LA many times per year and just can't seem to find what they are looking for, or they just enjoy "the hunt"... As you know, there is a vast difference in the reception we receive in LA as apposed to being shunned here at home by the fairer sex... Not to mention the "psycho" behaviour that many women here in the US seem to demonstrate... Just my experience... Unless one is careful, this pursuit can become addictive...

Once you meet someone and fall in love, it is very tempting to take that "leap of faith" very quickly... Everyone's time table is different, just as we are all individuals... All you can do is to be true to yourself and what you want from life... Take whatever time necessary to be sure that you both share the same values, goals, interests and outlook on life... Everyone's perception of reality is different, based upon their own life experience and perspective...

There are no guarantees in life...

Good luck in your pursuit...

wizard

[Yalg]

... in response to Motivation..., posted by wizard on Mar 8, 2003

I think more than just enjoying the hunt, many guys become addicted to the search.  They cant stop, yet they cant settle on anyone either.  Or they lose the girl they really wanted.  Some know that whoever they choose odds are it wont be the right one. If you want it all in the short term its nothing but a crap shoot for the most part. I think its obvious that any girl who will say yes after two or three days is not sincere in looking for the correct person. She has other priorities.  Same for the guy who is in a hurry....i think its mostly hormones taking over more than any desire for love or happiness.  It may not be that way while he is in the states before going, but once he hits the party and the babes come out most thought processes change quickly.

[Ralph]

... in response to Re: Motivation..., posted by Yalg on Mar 8, 2003

If a woman agrees to marry you after a week, unless there was an extreme case of thunder bolt, she is more likely happy to be marrying a "gringo", much more so than happy to be marrying you.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Your not alone...., posted by Yalg on Mar 7, 2003

...rushing things is an excellent one. It is nuts to spend a short vacation in an exotic country and "fall in-love" with a dark skinned beauty after holding hands for a few short days while you're both on vacation. As Mike (JunFan) said, it's far too easy to project your own fantasies on the situation, and not address the reality of spending the rest of your live with this women. In my own case, I spent a total of 13 weeks in four trips over nearly three years with my foreign sweetie before we got married, and even then, it was a tough adjustment.

However, I disagree with it taking a long, long time to "know whether you are truly in love," though. I believe love is something you do day after day, not something you discover, find or fall into. Once you both do it day in and day out for year after year, you're in love. The divorce statistics for couples who lived together before marriage are higher than those for those who didn't. The "let's see if we can make it before we fully commit" attitude is why shack-ups often don't do well in the long run. There's a hold back of committment that keeps the relationship from going to that next level. Real love means real committment without nagging suspicions or one eye looking out for failure.

Just my NSHO

- Jeff S.

[JunFanDallas]

... in response to Re: Just for the record...., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 7, 2003

...belittle you.  

But these are the things that people need to see.  There were enough red-flags to outfit the Chinese Army, and you just blew through them!

You were hurt and on the rebound, and just couldn't wait to get back in the fray.

See, we gringos tend to believe in the fantasy, otherwise we wouldn't consider marrying someone after spending time with them for only 15 days.  Steve, I've talked to you, and you're a smart enough guy...I'm pretty sure you would NEVER consider marrying an AW w/ 2 kids after knowing her for only 15 days, now would you?  So why on Earth would we relax those standards for a foreign woman, knowing the odds are more against us given the cultural & acclimation issues, among others?  I it's all about wanting to believe in the fantasy.

In a long distance relationship, it's easy to project qualities onto the woman/relationship that you WANT her/it to have.  I know, I've done it...I only spent about 8 days (2 trips) with my ex before I got engaged....insane! Insane I tell ya!

[Ralph]

... in response to I'm not trying to...., posted by JunFanDallas on Mar 7, 2003

I had probably spent about 100 days with my ex before she came to the states. Then another 4 months together before getting Married. It still did not work out. I am now living with my novia and her son. Pretty much 24-7 since september. I had spent well over 100 days with her prior as well. The difference is those were "vacation" days. everybody is on their best behavior on vacation. You're both so glad to see each other because of the time apart etc. This living together thing has got huge advantages, though not possible for many guys.

[rob4050]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

Steve, you raise a real issue here about child-rearing and one that will get you responses that will diverge wildly. I have three grown children from my marriage and they've all turned out fine, but not without some "interesting" and very frustrating episodes. One set of rules does not fit all, but there are some common threads you might consider. Steve, I am not an expert at all, so please don't take any of this the wrong way. Some of this I learned from my weaknesses and failure to handle things right in the past. The other part of these I learned from growing up overseas in Japanese culture...now there is a culture of suppressed emotion!

My advice, and fuel for the flamers perhaps, is this:

Kids need boundaries, but you need to expand them as they get older and show more maturity. However, there are some absolutes, like "stop" and "come here" that are for a young child's safety and are non-negotiable.

Spend quality time with them alone. You know, kite flying, playing catch, horseshoes, bikes, etc. Stuff where you can talk and be together. If you build that relationship, he may well start respecting you for your investment in him. Gifts of time are the most precious, material things simply don't feed the bulldog.

They need to learn that there are consequences, good and bad for their actions. If they do well, praise is very good. If they do something wrong, especially willfully, swift discipline is in order, just don't do it when you are angry. (This is hard, but a person really can't do a good job of discipline when angry because the child will focus on the anger, and not that he/she is started the string of events that led to the discipline.)

Positive affirmation, love, and patience overcomes almost everything, even though it is hard to do sometimes. Learn to tolerate "happy noise" from kids.

Teach them the value of respect for others and authority. Without that, they will grow up to have a very difficult time in society and in their relationships because without respect for others, selfishness is the usual manifestation. Bad for love, career, and internal peace.

Talk to your wife about how much you love her and her kids. (I know you already do this, but say it often.)

Again Steve, I hope this is not offensive in any way. I wish you the very best of luck and lot's of patience.

Rob

[Ronnie P]

... in response to Re: Raising children: Training is a bad ..., posted by rob4050 on Mar 7, 2003

Excellent post Rob 4050. As a guidance counselor in a public school I work with hundreds of children every year. Bottom line is the ones that are spoiled and get there way are the ones that are struggling in school. Training is important. Rob's post is excellent and I could not have said it better.

[rob4050]

... in response to Re: Re: Raising children: Training is a ..., posted by Ronnie P on Mar 7, 2003

Well thanks! Too bad I didn't have all of that information when they were born!

Rob