Raising children: Training is a bad thing?

[DallasSteve2]

If you have not been keeping score, I am married to my second Colombiana, and she has two children from a prior relationship.  While many men who are looking for a Latin bride will want one without children, if you stay together very long you will probably end up with children in the home.

Tonight my wife and I had a major disagreement about raising children and it made me wonder if people in Latin America raise their children very differently there than here in the US.  In fact, my wife got angry and began to ridicule the US and what she percieves as our way of raising children.  I particularly invite coments from any Colombians who have read this far.

She has an 11 year old daughter and 5 year old son (about to turn 6).  I also have a 5 year old son born the same month.  I have no gripe about the daughter, except that maybe she is a little cold towards me.  The son, however, in my opinion is not well behaved and has caused me many unpleasant moments.

He is very emotional.  When he is happy he is very happy and when he is unhappy he is very unhappy.  If he doesn't get what he wants he yells and cries.  To me that is behaviour of a 2 year old.  My son has outgrown that stage.  He also interrupts a lot.  His mother never corrects him for that.

One extreme example of his behaviour:  The other day we were getting ready for school and as usual he was whining.  He was sleepy and didn't want to go.  Time was short.  His mother told him to go.  He wouldn't.  She tried to pick him up and drag him.  He did his best "police brutality" rag doll slump and she gave up.  Finally I played "bad cop" and raised my voice.

I told my wife last night that I want us to train him to behave differently.  She got angry and said "You train animals, you educate children."  I disagree.  I believe you do both.  In fact the Bible says in Proverbs 22:6, "Train up a child in the way he should go and when he is old he will not depart from it."  

I wasn't sure if we were just miscommunicating.  My Spanish is pretty good, but maybe "entrenar" has a different connotation to native speakers.  If one wants to correct me I will listen.  But I don't think it's just parsing a word because then she said "When you give them an order you expect them to obey!"  My reaction was "Yeah!  Duh!"

She said that the US is raising cold robots for children.  I believe in giving them love and affection, but I also believe in firm discipline.  

This is a serious problem in our marriage.  Raising stepchildren is one of the biggest problems in second marriages.  I invite you all to comment.  Maybe I will listen.  I will probably do what I believe is right and damn the marital torpedos.  I can't spend another 13 years with this child behaving like he wants.

Steve

[DavidMN]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

Maybe what we really need is for the 'Little Rascals' to still be on television. Do you remember the scenes where the children were threatened with reform school? A dream sequence would appear - young children in balls and chains using heavy sledgehammers to crush boulders into gravel all day. My Mom used to tell me that's where I was headed if I didn't shape up!

[Red Clay]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

.......to me. Mi esposita  (from Peru) is always talking about how strict things were for her when she was growing up, and how well behaved, respectful, and disciplined Peruvian kids are compared to American kids. She thinks gringo kids need more "training", not less.

[surfscum]

... in response to Re: Raising children: Training is a bad ..., posted by Red Clay on Mar 7, 2003

Glad to hear there's at least one other guy with a Peruana. Drop me line, I'd like to hear your story. My posts should tell you mine, but I'm still in the process. Going back in April to spend a week or 2 with mi novia.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Que onda, chochero?, posted by surfscum on Mar 8, 2003

Actually there are several guys here who found their lady in Peru. Yours from Lima or somewhere else?

[surfscum]

... in response to Re: Que onda, chochero?, posted by Red Clay on Mar 8, 2003

From Lima, S. Martin de Porres. I wrote her along with about 25 others right before I went there last June. How long have you been married? BTW, do you know if Lima has DCF? How was the visa process for you two?

[Evan]

... in response to Re: Re: Que onda, chochero?, posted by surfscum on Mar 8, 2003

My wife is from Lima too. She`s been here for a little over a month now and everything is going real good. I do believe there is some sort of DCF for Lima. A guy named Golden that posts here from time to time went this route. Do a search and maybe you`ll find his posts. I went the K-1 route myself, it went good but took forever like most do since 9/11. Good luck with your gal.
Later,
Evan

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Re: Que onda, chochero?, posted by surfscum on Mar 8, 2003

We have been married two years this coming March 31st. I remember my wife saying she had never heard of DCF in Peru, so i'm not sure it's available. We actually married while she was here on a tourist visa, which she already had before we ever met. We found each other on a website called kiss.com.

[Golden]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Que onda, chochero?, posted by Red Clay on Mar 8, 2003

You can do a DCF in Peru, its how me and Pily got married. Its very fast.

[Red Clay]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Que onda, chochero?, posted by Golden on Mar 9, 2003

OOPS, sorry for the bad info, Carmen's fault of course.

[jumgimbo]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

Now, I don't have kids but this thread has caught my attention.  I think your stories are all very interesting and your approaches to parenting are unique, to say the least, but all this does for me is simply reinforce my determination NOT to have a relationship with a woman who already has children.  

I had several step-parent relationships throughout my childhood (long story) and as much as I disliked them back then, I give them a lot of credit for having the guts to hook up with someone pre-packaged with a family.  I can't imagine how difficult it is to do this in the U.S., let alone with a foreign woman, so I extend my admiration and respect to those of you who take on this challenge.  Kudos, as well, to those who not only assume the challenge but excel at it and end up remaining in a happy, healthy relationship.

On the other hand, at 40 I'm not exactly anxious to form my own family; as a divorce attorney I know all about the problems associated with post-relationship custody struggles and the vengeful acrimony that often accompanies them.  I guess one way to look at this is, if you don't adopt your stepchildren you will have no child support obligation if the marriage ends in divorce.  Gotta find the pluses wherever you can....

JG

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Re: Raising children: Training is a bad ..., posted by jumgimbo on Mar 7, 2003

JG

Adoption will never occur in my case.  Those are not famous last words, those words are fact and Milena knows it.

As far as step-children, you are right that they bring more difficulties.  However, in posting the story I am saying that even if you have children of your own with a Latina her culture may have a different idea of how to discipline those children.  But it would probably be easier to deal with that issue starting from 0 rather than with a pre-spoiled brat.

Steve

[Hiker]

... in response to Re: Re: Raising children: Training is a ..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 7, 2003

A stepchild can be a great thing.  When I married my ex she had a son of 5 years old.  He was extremely spoiled.  He made my life a living hell for the first 4 years.  I would daydream a lot about just forgeting the whole thing and hitting the road.  

To make a long story short... The day I left his mother and filed for divorce he moved out and into her parents home.  The same day he turned 18 (3 years after I left her) he legally changed his last name to my last name.  When he married I was his best man, and although his birth father and mother are still very much alive, he listed me as his only surviving parent.  

I hear from my blood son only when he needs money.  My step-son calls me a couple times a week.  He is the only thing of value I have from my past life.

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Raising children: Training is a bad thin..., posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 6, 2003

To all:

Wow!  It hasn't been 12 hours and I have plenty of thoughtful advice.  Although things have been a little slow here lately, this board still has some good posters around.

The Dr. Phil post surprised me.  I've not watched his show, but the few moments I've seen him he seems like a no-nonsense, self-responsibility kind of guy.  That seems like discipline to me.  Maybe I'm just not understanding the message.  We may not be that far apart.

If anything, the other posts reinforce my first opinion that I have been too "hands off" in a figurative sense.  I think his mother will never take the initiative to change his behavior and if I don't do something soon it will probably only get worse and harder to change in the future.

Thanks to all who have or will post about this.

Steve

PS to Pete:

Don't worry, there won't be any "butt-kicking".  Neither my wife nor I use "corporal punishment".  I used to with my first 2 children 20 years ago.  Nothing abusive, just a little wack on the bottom with a ruler.  But I never have used that approach with my 5 year old, and he obeys me.  I'm sure that if his mother agrees to a plan we can find other ways to modify her son's behavior.

[rob4050]

... in response to Muchas gracias, posted by DallasSteve2 on Mar 7, 2003

Hey Steve,

Well there is a lot of discussion about this. One thing more I'd like to offer. Since all kids are different and that cultures are different (I am no expert at all on Latin American culture), but...raising kids in any venue can be challenging.

I simply offer my encouragement and advice to not give up too soon. I think you have the strength to pull through this, so channel your energies accordingly. Beating yourself up simply hurts too much!

Best of luck!
Rob