Do Colombian women ever marry up?

[bogota vet]

[This message has been edited by bogota vet]

Colombia is such a class society.

I've noticed the when it really gets down to marrying , it appears the Colombian man stays within his social circle.
ie- he will have a hot babe for a mistress, but dare not marry her and present her to his family (mother, etc..)

Born into a lower social circle, I wonder how many times Colombian women actually enter into another circle.

And even more extreme in Colombia, a women would never marry down.

[Dean]

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

I've been married to Paty for about 2 years now.....

I marvel every day about her determination and bravery in coming here.

I am thankful everyday that she decided to marry me.

I have watched how hard she has worked trying to absorb a new language, a new society and a new way of life....

This has not been easy and has required and still requires much patience and understanding on both our parts.

I am very thankful that I did not consider class strata when I asked Paty to marry me.

I personally find it much easier to respect a person based on their efforts, ideals and aspirations rather than their birth / family status.

Perhaps we should all be thankful and humble that we have options in finding a loving, attractive wife rather than creating a new set of class / social barriers to replace the ones that we are escaping from here in the US.

[andre smith]

... in response to My thoughts, posted by Dean on Mar 1, 2003

MAN, I totally agree with you........RIGHT ON ........

[Pete E]

... in response to My thoughts, posted by Dean on Mar 1, 2003

Dean,
Paty is the kind of lady guys here could hope to get.It would be a real shame to miss a woman like that out of some stupid class discrimination.Some guys in her home country probably did just that.I don't know about there but here such a good woman is hard to find.
You not only pointed out the stupidity of class distinctions but made a great case for choosing a latina for a wife.
Congratualations.You did extemely well and you are wise  enough to know it.

Pete

[jumgimbo]

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

I know nothing about Colombian social classes and I really could care less about rigid societal stratification, but it does concern me that any woman I meet might be acutely aware of this in her country.  In the U.S., for instance, I don't see this level of class consciousness except among the upper crust, primarily old money families back east and the nouveau riche who want to be like them.  I do know that I could never date or have a relationship with a woman who is unsophisticated and uneducated or with a limited world view, mainly because I elevated myself from the white trash swamp through education and would have little in common with someone for whom a night out at Denny's is haute cuisine.

That said, I am uncomfortable trying to secure a relationship with a woman who might be a maid or a factory worker.  This is not elitism or snobbery talking, it is simple practicality, from my viewpoint.  It's going to be hard enough trying to communicate with someone due to language barriers, not to mention growing up in different countries and cultures, so adding in the mix the divergent levels of education may make a difficult situation impossible.  

I'll give you an example or two:  I have tried to date welfare mothers, barflies, or other women with no aspirations or abilities to achieve more than what they have been handed by bad luck and bad choices.  I can't hold a conversation with these women even if they're native English speakers.  Maybe the maid or factory worker will want to aspire to more than just accepting her lot in life, will want to learn and develop intellectually, so it is possible these kinds of relationships may work over time.  I'm just skittish stepping into one right from the beginning knowing how hard it is, and how quickly tiresome it becomes, to maintain one right here in California.  I mean, physical attraction only goes a short distance; over time, the partners need common interests, common goals, at least enough in common to have conversations that consist of more than "Oont, grunt, pass the mashed potatoes...ook.."

I have heard from several women in Barranquilla recently and most of them are of uncertain background.  I personally don't care where they come from as long as they're sincere, sweet and loving, keeping in mind what I pointed out above.  The number one gal so far is attractive, early 30s, was educated as an attorney, has two businesses, and speaks pretty good English.   Are these the reasons I'm attracted to her?  No.  She is nice, she is attentive (so far), she has good personal qualities and is easy to talk to.  But I'll bet some might say, based on this thread, that she comes from a higher social caste in Colombia than other women, merely because of her education and economic situation.  This may or may not be true, I just know I like the person and not the package.

Two weekends ago I went out with a woman who didn't even know what a caper was; she asked me what chicken piccata was and I was trying to explain it to her.  Very frustrating and definitely no second date.  I once took a young woman to a French restaurant and she said, verbatim:  "Is there anything on this menu I might like?  I'm a meat and potatoes kind of gal."  So she ended up having Steak Diane and pomme frites.  We never had another date after that, and she was very attractive.   All I'm trying to point out is we each must be satisfied with the person we end up marrying or we may end up doing it again and again until we get it right.  Better to know what you want and to seek it out rather than just fall for a pretty face and find out there is a dowdy airhead behind the mask.

JG

[JunFan]

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by jumgimbo on Feb 28, 2003

bravo!

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by jumgimbo on Feb 28, 2003

.. yes, class counts for some of us, but it isn't the only parameter in the equation. For others, a beautiful airhead wife totally lacking in social skills may be just the ticket.

Jeff S.

[bogota vet]

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

Because the class is so strong in Colombia the girls have only the pool of men in their class.
A Colombia female wouldn't dare marry down.

The young well to do Colombian guys have it made, they have little competition.

[elcolombiano]

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 28, 2003

Yes. Any Colombian man with a good job has his pick of women.

[elcolombiano]

... in response to Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by bogota vet on Feb 27, 2003

I have family in Cali. They are strata 6 social class. In Colombia your family name and social class are very important. They told me that no Man from strata 5-6 will date a women below that level and it is even inapropriate to be seen with a woman below your social class level. I dated several woman from lower social stratas. Even the men that are married that have affairs have affairs with women of similar social class. My cousin invited us to various social functions (Club Colombia and VIP Miltary Ceremonies etc.)the lower social strata women were very uncomfortable at these places and it caused me a lot of problems. Since I want to be able to socialize with my cousins family in Cali when I am married with my wife I am stuck dating 5-6 starta women.

I do not understand you guys that date lower social class women that work as maids and such and have little formal education. How much do you have in common with them?

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Do Colombian women ever marry up?, posted by elcolombiano on Feb 28, 2003

Historically I think spanish men married indian women and that got the modern population going.So there was a huge class gap,somewhat worldly european and peasant girl.I don't think too many of the early europeans brought their wives with them.That might have happened later.
But these new mixed blood marriages resulted in people who wanted to be above the indian population,so a class system develops.I THINK ALL CLASS SYSTEMS HAVE AT THEIR ROOT A HUGE INSECURITY TRYING TO SHEILD ITSELF BY PRETENDING TO BE BETTER THAN OTHERS.Fortunately we have little of that in the US.
That said however people do fall in to these classes and are limited by them.Isabelle Allede,Chilean novelist, tells of meeting her husband Willie,a San Francisco lawyer who was an orphan,worked from a small child selling newspapers and put himself through law school,a trully self made man.She admires him for it but said in Chile there would have been no way that was possible.That stinks.And that kind of thinking makes me wonder if maybe FARC doesn't have a grievance or two.Allende talks about her grandfather after the family fell on hard times but he had to hide any sign of poverty to maintain the image of the family to retain their social class.What a bunch of nonsense.A free society where talent and hard work is rewarded will kick their butt any time.
OK,but we do have lower class people,who work lower level jobs.That doesn't mean they are stupid,but it probably does mean they have limited experience and are not sophisticated about much and might not make an interesting mate.But,one step up from that we have middle or lower middle class families who struggle to get by but the kids go to school and can be very intelligent.My wife is one of the most intelligent women I have ever known.She has friends who are doctors and lawyers and dentists(from here) and she holds her own very well.Actually she is the momma and den mother for the Colombianas around here,including the proffesionals.
So lower middle class up it depends on the person,and its possible even lower class women have managed to get educated and worldly.
I think I mentioned before my ex girl friend with the masters in pshycology,the dumbest woman I have ever known.She had a sub 100 I Q for sure.She was told she would never graduate from College but they didn't consider her determination.Also,she picked an easy major.Sorry Aaron,but this chick would have never ever made it through one semester in Engineering.She had another advantage.She was so dumb she didn't know she was dumb,so it didn't hold her back confidence wise.She came from a wealthy family.Not upper class but upper middle.
Where was I going?First the upper class we will not meet.The lower class will probably not be interesting enough for us,but there is a huge area in between where most of these girls come from.
So really its finding a girl that meets your requirements.Given we are not dealing with the top of the top or the bottom of the bottom(probably not),individual difference are more important than class issues.
Off the soap box.I hate class issues.Individual achievement I have great respect for.I remember watching movies as a kid of old england,kings and queens,off with their head.My thought was why don't they just kill them?(the kings).
I can understand the type of feelings a communist rebel with FARC might have.The problem is their solution is no solution(as in Cuba).And they are willing to be a terrorist and kill people to try and get it.

Pete

[Pete E]

... in response to history,class and intelligence , posted by Pete E on Feb 28, 2003

I used to say that William F Buckley was a walking talking argument for a 100% inheiritance tax.But I have actually grown to like the guy,even if he is out of it on some things.And Gore Vidal,relative of Jackie Kennedy who puts down the Kennedy's as morons.He is smart.I will give him that.He is also so far out of it in judgement as to be borderline crazy.Totaly stuck on himself.
Some of you may remember these 2 guys were thrown together as political analists at a presidential convention about 1984.The had a huge pissing contest right on the air and for years wrote letters putting the other down.Egomania.Buckley won im my opinion for coming off as less crazy.
Reminds me of 2 guys I knew who were both pretty off the wall.They both wound up in my office one time back when I had my car business.I told my son this will be interesting to see who out crazies the other.Well one guy won and the other guy was just sort of looking at him shaking his head,like I usually did with him.

Pete

[JunFan]

... in response to American snobs, posted by Pete E on Feb 28, 2003

Talking about stuff like this on a Latin board is merely mental masturbation.

You are truly addicted to this thing....unbelievable.

[Pete E]

... in response to Good Ole "Political Pete", posted by JunFan on Mar 2, 2003

Mike,
I admit I  waste too much time here and I get too political.I guess its just a hobby or something to do."Mental masturbation" could be applied to about every thing but actual activity so maybe some truth in that also. I should spend less effort here and more on issues in my life,there is something important I should be doing right now.
And you are here because?

Pete

[JunFanDallas]

... in response to Re: Good Ole "Political Pete", posted by Pete E on Mar 3, 2003

Well, I posted below, as you have seen.

I guess part of the reason I chime in here from time to time, is....number 1, because I have time given that I am single and 2, I guess I have enjoyed injecting a dose of reality onto this board lest guys like you, who are here to try to seek approval/validation of what they have done, continue to look through rose-colored glasses.

And notice Pete, I'm not on here a fraction of what I used to be, not by a mile  

Serious question...how much time do you think you spend per day/week in front of this board???  Come on Pete, be honest.