Two Americans to be released...

[Cali vet]

Two Americans and a Canadian who were taken into custody (kidnapped) "for their own protection" by the AUC during skirmishes near the Panama border last week.

[Pete E]

... in response to Two Americans to be released..., posted by Cali vet on Jan 22, 2003

Is AUC protecting their money also?
Actually,even for all its reported human right abuses I have more faith in AUC that this story is true.FARC would have just got all the money they could for them.
I thought AUC got disbanded now that Uribe is president,counting on him to handle the rebels.Story not true?Maybe they still operate in areas the think the government is not doing anything in.
I admit a bias towards AUC's possition,not their tactics.For many years the government has done al;most nothing about the rebels.I can understand creating an organization(Kind of Vigilante) to oppose the rebels.
A Colombian I know in Cali thinks Carlos Castana is a hero.I last talked to him before Uribe got elected.
Same Colombian,related to a mutual friend of ours,thinks you are begging to get kidnapped with your hiking trips.Similar to these guys perhaps?

Pete

[Cali vet]

... in response to AUC, aside on hiking around, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

I wonder if your Colombian friend has done much traveling around himself. I find that 99% of Colombians I meet have seen less of their own country than I have. There's also an awfull lot of rumor and just downright misinformation that gets passed around. Today a taxista asked how 'bout that earthquake in Chile that killed twenty-five people?

[Celt]

... in response to AUC, aside on hiking around, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

Nearly everyone I spoke with in Cali and Bogota, including
a random sample of 25 taxi drivers, think CastaNo is a hero.
CastaNo himself has written that he took his tactics
directly from the FARC, and uses these same tactics against
them. In the media, it is para-military massacres, and FARC
military operations. The bias is blatant. The FARC "taxes"
growers, the AUC is "involved in narco-terrorism". Actually,
the reserve is closer to the truth.

You may also notice no mention of the quality of life,
economic activity, etc. in those areas re-taken by the AUC.

Please do not flame me as their defenders. It is just that
the quality of media coverage is dangerously pathetic for
a nation at war against terrorism.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: AUC, aside on hiking around, posted by Celt on Jan 22, 2003

An attorney I know from Popiyan says when AUC kills some rebels the media says "farmers"were killed.He said yeah ,they might have been farmers part time but they were rebels,AUC knows who the rebels are.He said there is a tremendous bias in the media against AUC.I think that may be particularly true in the international media.You arguably have 2 sets of terrorists,one happens to get government help so they get judged by a different standard.
Stories,perhaps true about chain saw massacures by AUC do give them real bad press.Kind of reminds me of Vietnam.Villages would aid the Viet Cong and then sometimes you would get a Mai Lai type massacure,even by US troups.It did happen,although I don'think the US troops were terrorists in general.Bad things happen in war.May not be an accurate comparison at all,just reminded me of it.
I was against the vietnam war but would shoot Saddam Hussein or the FARC in a heartbeat.

Pete

[Michael B]

... in response to Thats what I heard about AUC, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

Back in March or April a co-worker strongly into the "peace movement" told me her organization was having a speaker from Colombia and I was welcome to attend, since she knew I was involved with a Colombian woman etc. etc. (I'll give this one credit for "money where her mouth is", a few years ago she had sheltered a Nicarguan couple in her own home and with her own money for almost a year until their asylam visa finally got approved, and when my former GF's cousin was killed by ELN, she offered to have her church group [which BTW is a seperate entity from the "peace group"] sponsor his widow and child for an asylam visa too, and let them live in her house until they could get on their feet, but they perfered to return to Venezuela, where she was orginaly from and had family).

Anyway, after that preface... I went, didn't take long at all to realize that I knew a H. of a lot more about Colombia than they did (and I hadn't even made my trip yet). The speakers were an early 20's married couple (and the boy's mother, who had fronted the money for their trip) with "I'm gonna save the world" stars in their eyes and the word "nieve" tattoed on their foreheads...after a while I seriously wondered how they had found the building we were meeting in, let alone all the way to S. America and back. Anyway, all they talked about was AUC this and AUC that and how horrible AUC was...they never even MENTIONED ELN or FARC until I spoke up and said "Look, I ain't claiming they are exactaly the boyscouts, but the AUC exists primarly because SOMEBODY has to fight FARC and ELN and the government obvisouly isn't handling it very well."....their response was "Oh yeah, well there are other 'armed actors' in Colombia, and of course we are against all of them, but the AUC is by far the worst".....whatever....they were full of "our guide said blah blah blah" and "our intrepreter said yada yada yada"   It almost sounded like they had a public relations agency contract from the FARC that read "keep us out of it as much as possible, but be sure everybody knows all about those bad human rights abusing murderers over in AUC".

Unfortunitly, either because the squeaky wheel gets the grease, or because they themselves (the press, that is) have their own agenda, these two and their ilk are the ones the USA press seems to listen to 99% of the time.

[Pete E]

... in response to "Peacenicks" and AUC (kind of ..., posted by Michael B on Jan 22, 2003

One of the reasons we have heard so many bad things about AUC as opposed to FARC and ELN is it comes up in the debate for funding to help Colombia.
I think it is true that there is considerable support for the AUC within the Colombian Military because they are seen as doing what many leaders in th Colombian military think should be done if the government would actually face the situation.So I believe it is true that material support has found its way from the Colombian Military to AUC,as well as the Colombian military not wanting to interfere with AUC.
So,when funding requests hit the US congress leftists in particular say we can't give them money,some of it will go to these terrible AUC people.And congress has passed conditions on funding that this not be done and that Colombia try to stop it,which has never been wholeheartedly done.Even Uribe,the current president has been accused of being an AUC supporter and it is probably true.FARC killed his father and he has vowed to get rid of them.Now that he is president hopefully he will be able to get Colombia commited to this fight and there will be no need for AUC.
I know AUC are not boy scouts and would disagree with some of what they have done.
Of course in this country we have a very vocal liberal establishment and press that has had great power in the past.That is changing.A dose of reality(9/11 style) can make some of their possitions look pretty rediculous.
Cheryl Crow inserts in  an acceptance speach for being honored for her music that war is never the answer.The fact that she didn't have to make that speech in German to a lilly white only audience refutes her argument.England almost fell to the Natzis while we didn't want to get involved before we were drug into  WW2.It was a very shamefull period of american history to that point.Fortunately for the Cheryl Crows of the world(and the rest of us) we were awakened to what needed to be done in time.I think we got another wake up call 9/11.Wake the sleeping giant at your perril.
I forget who said it: " all that is needed for the forces of evil to prevail in the world is enough good men to do nothing."
OK,off the soap box.Lets talk about women.

Pete

[Celt]

... in response to One of the reasons for AUC opposition, posted by Pete E on Jan 23, 2003

Many people have said that quote, but Martin Luther King
comes to mind as one of them.

[Celt]

... in response to Thats what I heard about AUC, posted by Pete E on Jan 22, 2003

The classic case was the "massacre" in the night club a
few years ago. It was a FARC gathering IN a nightclub.
CastaNo has written that he feels sorry for the dupes
that he orders killed. The real power of the FARC is
urban, but its lackies are up in the mountain villages.
But, hey, they chose the occupation of FARC lacky.

[Celt]

... in response to Two Americans to be released..., posted by Cali vet on Jan 22, 2003

How do we know it wasn't for their own protection? Were they
killed, assuming the general tilt of media coverage,
the blame would fall on the AUC for a "murder", and not on the
FARC for a "police action" or "unexplained killing".
It sounds to me that CastaNo was protecting the AUC,
and teaching a macho fool a good lesson.

Has anyone ever heard of the FARC offering to
hand someone over to the Catholic Church?

[markxport]

... in response to Two Americans to be released..., posted by Cali vet on Jan 22, 2003

Hello Cali Vet,

I'm real curious as to find out why these men were near the Colombian/Panamaian border area?  Have a old college roommate (mother is Colombian) thats a marine and has spent plenty of time in Panama and Colombia, and based on our conversations, this area is definitely not on any tourist map.....

Take care,

Mark

[Brazilophile]

... in response to Re: Two Americans to be released..., posted by markxport on Jan 22, 2003

They weren't all men.  They were 2 men and 1 woman.  One of the men was a Canadian by the name of Robert Pelton known for his best selling book "The World's Most Dangerous Places."  They may have been doing research for an updated edition.

[Pescador]

... in response to Re: Two Americans to be released..., posted by markxport on Jan 22, 2003

I read they were jounalists, one of them is famous for his most dangerous places guide book. Well he found another chapter for his book in the Darien Gap. Want to be a statistic go visit the Darien Gap.