Which cities are the safest?

[corv]

In Colombia which cities can be considered the "safest"? If one wanted to travel for an extended amount of time say 1 or 2 months, what cities are recommened?

[Pete E]

... in response to Which cities are the safest?, posted by corv on Jan 2, 2003

Safest place- San Andreas,small island in the Caribean about 300 miles north of Cartegena.Its so small I bet the cops know exactly who any bad guys are.Its really unlike the rest of Colombia.
Second safest place - Cartegena- although even here you want to stay to the main areas,like the Old city.
After that ,I don't know,but it goes downhill fast.Each city has places that are safer than most of the rest of the city.And each city has places a gringo should never go.The malls in Cali and Bogota are pretty safe while you are in them.They are gated and there is alot of police and security presence.This is a good place to use the ATM machines,but watch out you are not being followed as you leave the mall.Best to catch a taxi right in front.
A story someone reported about 3 years ago.He used a bank on a main city street in Cali.His cab was waiting in front.He came out of the bank,got in the cab.They were stopped at the first signal buy 2 guys on a motorcycle with guns.Give us you money.Yes sir!Si Senior!
Also its best not to leave town,or really know what you are doing if you do.I let my wifes minister take me on a whirlwind tour of cities around Cali.He claimed it was safe,which it seemed to be.He also said it was safe to drive to Bonaventura.Others said no way.That is risky,particulary if you travel after dark(real dumb).

Pete

[anzo]

... in response to Which cities are the safest?, posted by corv on Jan 2, 2003

If you dress in a Hawaiian flowerdy shirt with a camera around your neck, none of them. If you are low-key and don't make a fuss about yourself, all of them. Simple as that. Just returned from Cali again and have always felt secure as long as I keep my wits about me, as I would in any city. Absolutely safer than Wash, DC.

Anzo

[Wasp]

... in response to Re: Which cities are the safest?, posted by anzo on Jan 2, 2003

I felt very safe in Bogota, and walked a lot of the time, even at night. Also, I traveled outside the city to Zipaquira and Cajica. I don't know, maybe I was naive and just got lucky.

The murder statistics are inflated because they include war casualties. I cannot quote the exact number, but I think the murder rate within Bogota itself is actually lower than some American cities.

[Dean]

... in response to Re: Re: Which cities are the safest?, posted by Wasp on Jan 3, 2003

Greetings,
On our last trip (August) to Bogota, Paty and I traveled to Cajica and Zipaquira.

We went with my brother-in-law, his wife and my mother-in-law.

It was my first time outside the city...

I was somewhat nervous, but figured that since I couldn't change my situation I should relax as much as possible and enjoy the trip. (beautiful countryside)

Are these Pueblos considered safe? I didn't see any other gringo / gringa folks there and over all it seemed kinda rural...

We had no problems, but I've always wondered how close we were to trouble...

After visiting Bogota for more than two years now, I've never had any trouble...I've tried to maintain a low profile, not advertise my schedule, hotel plans or locations.

I've always figured that excepting the random occurances, it would usually take a little advance planning to set up an abduction...maybe not, .....I just usually keep a low profile, travel only in safe areas and try to keep moving...

I've though in the past it would be very easy to monitor this forum for intel on accomodations and schedules...
I assume its done....

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Which cities are the safest?, posted by Wasp on Jan 3, 2003

It would be a very limited city,maybe like East Rutherford,New Jersey,(guessing,the name just popped up for me)to have a crime rate anything like any larger city in Cali.Actually I was in East Palm beach Florida one time and it was pretty scary,groups of guys just standing around on each corner.I was thinking I am screwed if this rental car quits on me.
I would bet no larger city in the US has a crime rate anything like Bogota.Where I live,San Jose Ca. just came out as the safest large city in the US.I think the catagory was 500,000 up.50 miles from here,Oakland,came out as one of the worst,but I bet it beats Bogota.And Oakland is pretty scary in most neighborhoods,but even there some upscale areas.

Pete

[Wasp]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Which cities are the safest?, posted by Pete E on Jan 3, 2003

A story posted on 2 Gringos claims the Bogota murder rate is 28 per 100,000. How does that compare to US cities?

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Which cities are the saf..., posted by Wasp on Jan 3, 2003

Well,if thats true Oakland Ca. has them beat.With a population of 400,000 the had 170 some murders late last year,I don't know what the final number was.So thats about 45 per 100,000.
I think the "safety" numbers look at all violent crime.I bet Bogota beat them big time in kidnappings.
But something does seem to come out here.I think Bogota has a lower murder rate than Cali and Medellin,cities with much more drug underworld type activity I think.
The statistics for Colombia as a whole look very bad as described by the US travel advisory.These do contain rural rebel crime and fighting activities.
My gut feeling,from what I have seen and heard,is the risk in a place like Cali is very high vs. any US city.Certainly a whole different world than were I live.

Pete

[NW Jim]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Which cities are the..., posted by Pete E on Jan 4, 2003

Dec. 2002 article in USA Today states that the US National rate for homicide is 5.6 per 100,000. The highest was Gary, Indiana at 79.4 per 100,000. DC had around 30 per 100,000.

On the other hand unless you go into bad neighborhoods or live full time in Colombia, not sure why one should be too concerned. There's risk all around us.

[in bogota]

... in response to Re: Re:US Stats?, posted by NW Jim on Jan 4, 2003

I live full time in Bogota and feel safer here than in most large U.S. cities, naturaly there are places here you would not go into at night as in the U.S. or any country, but as a whole, even as a gringo you are well received in all areas, strangers are more friendly, you can pass safely from neighborhood to neighborhood without problems, starring, racial remarks, or someone telling you to go back to your own neighborhood. (even if you are a gringo) However, cause a problem, make a foolish spectical out of yourself and disrespect someones country or culture and then yes, you may have a problem.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Which cities are the safest?, posted by anzo on Jan 2, 2003

There might be some bad spots of Washington D C but I never saw them.I spent 3 days there as a tourist and walked to all the main sites.I have been to Cali several times but no way would I just take off walking around for 3 days like I did in Washington.The only thing that would rival Cali for danger is the very worst parts of some US cities.There are places more dangerous than others in Cali but crime can happen anywhere there at much higher rate than a US city.And some  parts of the city can be extremely dangerous.
Now that doesn't mean you can't spend some time there and have no trouble,but the risk factor is high.I immagine someone can give us some statistics here.Colombian statistics are way worse than the US.
But a couple of examples of problems Colombians known by those close to me have had.Colombians are probably at a much lower risk than a obvious gringo,because most of them have little to steal.My brother in laws mother(mother of the guy married to my wifes sister)went out for a walk very early in the morning in a rather average Cali neighborhood.A gang of street punks shot and killed her.
The uncle of Colombian I know was riding his Harley(very stupid to draw attention to yourself).He stopped at a signal and 2 guys on another cycle shot him in the head and took the Harley.
And something I did that was stupid in hindsight.I let a Colombian take me to a restaurant about 5 miles up the hill above the statue of the guy who founded Cali.He said it was very safe.About 6 months later rebels kidnapped all the people in the restaurant.Two died in captivity before the others were released.
Alot of the risk depends on how long you spend in a place.Someone posted here he had been mugged twice in the US and no problem in Cali.But thats 40 years of exposure in the US and maybe 6 weeks of exposure in Cali.
Yeah there may be a very few places in the US to rival Colombian risk.But in Colombia you are at higher risk about everywhere than in the US.
Does this mean I won't go?No,I go.I would tell others to go also.But you need to watch yourself and where you go.Don't kid yourself its anything like the US.

Pete

[anzo]

... in response to Cali safer than DC?, posted by Pete E on Jan 3, 2003

perhaps I overstated a bit, however, I maintain that DC, having lived here most of my life, is, outside of the few tourist friendly areas, is a very unsettling place-walk aound anywhere east of 14th St. anytime of day. Of course there are areas in Cali I don't want to walk around, either.
Anzo

[bogota vet]

... in response to Cali safer than DC?, posted by Pete E on Jan 3, 2003

[This message has been edited by bogota vet]

Correct.
Remember there are no friendly police to help you out, everyone, locals, take care of themselves in Colombia.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: Cali safer than DC?, posted by bogota vet on Jan 3, 2003

Good point.Calling the cops will usually just compound your problems.They are looking for a way to make some $ and a gringo is a welcome sight.
We were in a taxi near Unicentral in Cali.The cops had the right lane blocked and were pulling over cars,expensive cars for Cali.I asked why,my wife made the finger rubbing sign for money.I guess if the cops want to raise some money they just set up a roadblock to extort people.
Needless to say Colombia and some other latin countries have a long way to go to join the first world.

Pete