V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part 2

[gringuitonto]

June 2002: one week or so, Cali-Armenia. Happy reunion. She  
or the family organized a fiesta at her house, food, dance,
Mariachi band, a good time colombian style. The family is nice,
seems to accept the idea, that we nurturing a relationship,
possibly more. We spend a week on the countryside in a
hacienda (despite the worsening situation with FARC), to see
how we tolerate each others company in everyday situations. We
talk about possible future together. She says: I do not want
problems in my life. That was a red flag, I just did not know. She
is pensive at times, but sweet and always polite, no bchiness
or demanding. And of course always beautiful, feminine and
kind. Never makes an effort organizing anything or take care of
anything. I assumed this is a cultural thing, the easygoing Cali
style, let the man take care of things. I did not have problems
with this, I am organized and I am used to take care or service
people in different situations. Well, that was a red flag I just did
not know. I talked about life in the US, although I assumed that
her sister shared her experiences with her, since they are very
close. I was wrong again! Explained my experiences as an
immigrant, the challenges of learning English, assimilating to a
very different culture, the jobs, the lifestyle, the differences, the
problems and good things we have here. I tried to be objective.
She knew that her salary of $ 4-500 is about one tenth what I
make, yet it does not mean that I am rich. Overall we seemed to
be comfortable in each other's company in a less stimulating
environment also. So far so good. We talked about love, long
term, engagement etc., she never initiated any discussion or
planning. I started the pain in the *ss called K1 visa process.

End of June-July: she lost her job! Lotsa stress in her life with
the job (some grey hair at age 30!) but good jobs are hard to find
items in Co. Daily emails, telephones two-three times a week.
Conversations about lifestyle, economy, values etc. of Colombia
and the US. Love notes, flowers etc. She is always nice, I never
cought her with a lie or deception.

September: A week in Medellin. Happy reunion again. Many
conversations, sometimes misunderstandings because of
language and cultural issues. Always dealt with the issues,
never went to bed being mad. Once or twice she said that she
always want us to be novios, she does not want our life become
a routine. Her parents are married for fifty plus years, but none of
her siblings (5)  have successful marriages. If these were red
flags I certainly did not recognize them.

October-November: Everyday contact, love, tenderness etc.
Preparations for her interview and travel.

End of November: Together in Bogota. Happy reunion,
excitement etc. We organized everything well, in three days she
had medical, interview, visa and ticket. Her K1 thing went very
smooth. More talks about life in the US, planning to visit sister in
the Big Apple, planning to get married on our first aniversary of
the day when we met. Traveled to the US together, no problems
with INS.

End of November-December: I live in the midwest, one hour from
a major metropolitan area. It is cold in the winter and she never
seen snow or felt Windy City weather.  A major shock to her! After
arrival I gave her total freedom to rearrange, modify or reorganize
the house and our surroundings. She never did any of those
things. She started driving lessons , but always was very afraid
on the road. Daily phonecalls to family in Cali and the sister in
Big Apple. Always kind and respectful and sweet. Introduced her
to friends, went to parties, bought warm clothes etc. After two
weeks she still seemed totally out of place in the house and
everywhere else. Many many times I asked her how I can make
her more comfortable. She never asked for anything and never
initiated anything. Our nights were sweet. She always exhibited
attraction to me. After three weeks she started to be very agitated
in her sleep, and distanced during the day. We went out a couple
times to the city, she started English class. One day after seeing
her in distress we sat down and holding hands I asked her
again what can I do to ease her discomfort. She started crying
and told me that she is arranging a ticket with her sister for her
return to C. Although there are few things that can surprise me in
life, I was caught off guard. My heart sunk. She told me that it is
her fault not mine, she can not live here, this is not her world.
Many, many times I told her before her arrival that the first couple
months are very difficult here, because I remembered the time
when I moved to the US. She said that she knew it is going to be
difficult, but did not expect to be so much out of place. Her sister
tried to convince her to stay at her house, she thought maybe I
did not treat her well that is why she does not want to stay. She
told her if she would  want to stay in the US, she would be with
me. Two days later I bought her a ticket and she went back to
Cali. Her last words between tears were: Lo ciento.                                
I  miss her terribly.

Guys, I tried to do this right with everything I got. It was not
enough, I (we) failed. I did not recognize some of the obvious
signs of disparity, lack of dedication and a strong attachment to
me. Maybe I was not able to soften the impact of the culture
shock for her. I had the wrong assumption that TLC and comfort
can substitute for family. Maybe I ignored some obvious red
flags, but I not just loved this woman but liked her too. Never
caught her with a lie or a deception. (it does not mean that has
not happened)  She failed, because she did not have the
stamina to make adjustments in a different world. She failed
because she did not love me enough to stick it out with me.              
End of story. She did not call, I did not call.

[Edge]

... in response to V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part..., posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

to hear about your misfortune.  We appreciate your telling everyone so people have an idea of how difficult these marriages can be to pull off.  Sounds like you tried to cover all your bases.  I guess I would have to side with the guys advising it sounds like she did not really love you. She did not have what it takes to make a go of it.  It takes a certain woman who can have the courage and fortitude and perserverence to leave their family and country and go through the adjustment here.  

Today makes 13 months of marriage for my wife and I.  She seems to be adjusting well to the weather here.  But then again most people have no idea how the weather in Denver really is.  Which is good so that more people do not move here (today is 67).  I remember that I did try to bring her here when we had fall weather versus winter because I did not want to shock her coming in the dead of winter.  Something to keep in mind.  It is not so much the colder weather, but also everything is dormant and the trees are without leaves, etc. that makes it quite different from green and lush Colombia.

I would not move if you like living where you are.  Take whatever time you need to recover and then head back south a little wiser.

Best of luck-
Edge

[Andean Condor]

... in response to V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part..., posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

[This message has been edited by Andean Condor]

If the climate truly does matter to Calenas, you might want to consider someone trying to find someone who lives in the mountains of Colombia, as they are more apt to experience the full cycles of nature.  Not much variety in Cali, from what I've heard.  As a former Vermonter, and current Michigander, I have to say do not even listen when people tell you to move.  I know that personally, I wouldn't trade four seasons for the world... In fact, winter and spring have always been the most romantic months for me.  In winter, you can cuddle up with your loved one in front of the fire.  There's nothing like spending the winter together with a lover to really get to know them good.  Sorry southern guys, but there are those of us who actually like the north!

Andean Condor

[Pete E]

... in response to Winter and Calenas, posted by Andean Condor on Jan 8, 2003

It might be hard to immagine if you never spent the winter in a warm climate,or lived in a climate where there was no winter,but think about it.A Calena comes from a climate that is warm but rarely too warm year around.If it ever gets to the 60's at night my wifes family thinks it is very cold in Cali.She moves to a place where you can't go out of the house unless you put on lots of warm clothes.Even in the house she is cold because she is very sensitive to any cold at all.My wife will walk in from outdoors and shiver for an hour even though its warm enough inside.And thats a reaction to 50 degrees.Put this together with a town where everybody just stays inside,you go out on the street and there is no one.Compare that to the busy bustling sidewalks of Cali,with street vendors and music playing,people all around to talk to and say hello to.Its one person,you,better than solitary confinement and if she thinks Cali is heaven then your town is hell.You better have a real good relationship,but even if she loves you and sticks it out she will miss her family her friends and her City,with the weather so much better to her,like night and day,from where you live.She will be giving up alot for you,and its a huge burden for a relationship to bear.Its unlikely she will be trully happy,even if she really loves you.
If you live in a cold climate,try Russia.The chicks tend to be real bad news but they will already be adjusted to a Siberia type existance.Even Bogota ,which is much colder than most of Colombia,is nothing like a midwest winter.Not even close.I doubt it ever hits 50 degrees,but thats dammed cold to a Colombiana.
And from a guy who grew up in a cold climate and didn't know the difference at the time,no way I would ever live in your town either,or my old home town.Somewhere on the earth it is summer right now.Why live like an Eskimo?You can't change the weather but you can change your experience of it by choosing where you are living.So unless you think that job you have there just can't be replaced or you are afraid to change you might just try living in a place with a summer like existance.From my experience a few years without cold winters and you will never go back to them.
I do love spring,because it signals the end of winter.

Pete

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to Winter and Calenas, posted by Andean Condor on Jan 8, 2003

Andean Condor:

You suggested that someone who lives in the mountains of Colombia are more apt to experience the full cycles of nature.  I don't think so.  

Colombia has no seasons as we perceive them.  That is because it is very close to the Equator.  Therefore, in Cali it is warm all year.  In Bogota it is cool all year.  It is never Texas hot or Michigan cold in either of those places.  The average temperature varies about 10 degrees F all year in any part of Colombia.  If you go up high enough in the Andes it is cold, but, likewise, there it is cold all year.

Steve

[Pete E]

... in response to V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part..., posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

Transplanting a Calena to a small midwest town in winter has got to be a tough adjustment.Its always tough anyway missing the family,friends and activities.Homesickness is a sure thing,the question is how bad.
So this was a tough one to pull off.But - - - if it was real love she would have stuck it out so maybe you are lucky she was tested hard right away.
Sounds like  a decent girl who just didn't really love you.
If you lived in Miami it might have worked in the short run
but what about the long run?
I know it hurts but maybe you should consider yourself lucky.I don't know about you but if my marriage ended I would be right back down south somewhere.The alternatives are just not that good here for guys in their 40's and 50's.
I don't know how commited you are to your small midwest town.You might think about transplanting somewhere warm.I grew up in Idaho  and liked it at the time but having moved to a place with less winter(California) I would never live there again in the winter.Life is too short to freeze your butt off 6 or 8 months a year.I think if I ever moved to Florida or Latin America I probably wouldn't want to return to northern California either.I fantasise about winter in Latin America and maybe 3 months of summer in the northwest.
I know its early,but what are your intentions from here?
Thanks for a good post.We need real stories here.
Good luck whatever you do.

Pete

[Jeff S]

... in response to V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part..., posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

... even though things didn't work out. It's a shame she didn't stick it out. There is a definate adjustment period for most imports, that can be as long as a year or two, at least it was in my case - but that was from big city to big city. Bringing a city girl to the country or vice versa probably makes the already adjustment period even worse.

I also, don't see how you missed any red flags - it simply didn't work out. Be happy it didn't get farther along and committed. Sorry to hear of the troubles. If you consider it a learning experience and dust yourself off and get back on the horse, I'm sure you'll do fine. You sound like a sincere, level-headed guy.

Best of luck to you.

- Jeff S.

[valuedcustomer]

... in response to V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part..., posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

This is an interesting post since it brings up the issue of how feasible is it to transplant a woman from Cali to the United States.  The usual greencard/goldigger concern is irrelevant here because according to the story she was obviously sincere.

A typical Cali girl grows up in an environment where she is surrounded by friends and family.  She goes to fiesta frequently with Salsa and drinking until 4 a.m. in the morning.  She lives in a warm tropical climate.  People are warm and passionate and free love abundant.  Life is more laid back, less regulations, less organization.

Now take that same girl and introduce her to a small Midwestern town in the dead of winter.  She experiences agonizing cold like she never thought possible before.  It is a cold that goes deep into the bones and actually causes pain to her skin.  In Cali, woman put on sweaters at night if it dips below 70 degrees.  She is surrounded by people who don’t understand her language and ways.  People are more suspicious, less outgoing.  In Cali, people get together in family rumbas and tell jokes and stories into late in the night while drinking aguacaliente.  In small town USA, the ladies get together and seriously discuss a strange new object – Tupperware - while drinking tea.  No one is laughing.  Episcopalians don’t laugh.  And the only sound of drums can be heard at the local basketball game during half time.  If she would dare to Salsa in this small hamlet, she would be arrested for indecent conduct.  

It won’t be the first time that a man has gone to a tropical paradise and fell in love with a beautiful rare bird which he then smuggles back to the United States.  But the bird slowly withers and starts to become sick.  The bird doesn’t do anything to help herself because the concept of “helping yourself” has no meaning to one who has previously succeeded just  “being” who she is – laughing, singing, dancing.  Thus, no matter how much the man tries to rearrange her cage and make it more comfortable, she just becomes sicker and sicker.  Finally, the only decent thing to do is to send her back to her native habitat where she can once again flourish in the sun and regain her well-being.  

Maybe next time he should consider a snowbird from Russia.  

     

[gringuitonto]

... in response to Re: V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure ..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jan 7, 2003

You have a point about the weather and family, some
validity about social life.  Yet I have to add: there are at
least 20 wellknown latin salsa clubs in the Windy City,
the second or third largest latino minority in the US,  tv
stations, newspapers, theaters etc. in spanish. One hr
away from my house. Some people travel more time
from one corner to the other in the city.  Besides I am
not a true Gringo, most of my friends are fun-loving,
intelligent people. Snowbird from Russia is out of
question.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure ..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jan 7, 2003

Here's one I wrote a while back:

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/search/searchdisplay.php?page=asian&archive=000052&id=19227

- Jeff S.

[Craig]

... in response to Re: V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure ..., posted by valuedcustomer on Jan 7, 2003

A well written post. I agree with you totally. I commented on this subject a number of times before about Calenas and warm weather. My belief is that though there are some exceptions, women from Cali prefer warm weather which is why most Calenas wind up in Florida mainly Miami. Miami to Colombians is like Disney to Americans. I live in Florida north of Miami. what I also found was that my friends from Bogota find New York/Queens (Jackson Heights) area to be their city of choice. More metro... reminds them of Bogota. Not that people can't adjust to anything it's just in general less problems when you pick the right city/climate for the women your interested in.

[JunFan]

... in response to V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part..., posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

Sorry to hear that bro, I know how painful it is when one of these things burn in.

You can read all about my experienc in the archives.

The executive summary was I corresponded with my ex for 4 mos. before my first trip, got engaged the second trip, and went down there 3 more times.  She got here in Aug '01, we married here in  Sept '01, and were divorced Jan '01.  She's back in Colombia also, where she needs to be.  I thought I had all my bases covered too, but it's not all about that, as we can both attest.  There are some structural issues in inter-cultural relationships such as these that one can't learn about except in the school of hard knocks.  And the lessons can be brutal for both parties.  Placing blame is a waste of time.

I think it is almost impossible for these women to realize what lies ahead of them.

That's why I'm dating Latina's that live here already, and there are plenty of them.  And the gringas aren't all that bad either, BTW.  Next time, I will just 'play' with the hot ones in the Motherland, not bring them back, marry them, and waste $50k.

JunFan

[DallasSteve2]

... in response to V's Secret or Episodes of a Failure Part..., posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

I am sorry that things didn't work out for you.

I wonder about where you live.  Besides being cold you wrote that you live about one hour away from a major metropolitan area.  Do you live in a small town or on a farm?  Was your novia from the city of Cali?

I ask because my wife and her sister are from Cali and both are here in Texas now.  They have both had trouble adjusting to life in the US.  Especially her sister because her husband lives on a farm about "one hour" outside of Dallas.  She has said that once she gets her license she is moving to Dallas and her husband can chose.  That may only be talk, but they haven't passed one year together yet.

I live in the middle of Dallas, but it is still a big change from Cali.  There are probably 1000 people in my apartment complex, but you don't see many people outside.  I spent time at her home in Cali and there were always people everywhere.  The peace and quiet here is not necessarily a plus for these girls.  They feel very alone, and that is only compounded by the language and lack of work, transportation, etc.

Even my green card shark ex-wife missed Colombia and said she will return to live there, but first she wants to make some money here.

Steve

[gringuitonto]

... in response to one hour, posted by DallasSteve2 on Jan 7, 2003

Sure Steve, I live in a small quiet town of 27 houses,
right on the river, my next door neighbor is 150 yards
away, but I work in the city . I explained to her, showed
her photos etc.  Also we were planning to move closer,
and I had no problems with that. Yes she is from Cali,
where there is always people and music on the streets.

[Pete E]

... in response to Re: one hour, posted by gringuitonto on Jan 7, 2003

27 houses?150 yards to nearest neighboor?Is this the whole town?You said you were an hour away from a city but is there a town(27 houses is not a town)closer than that?
A town of 40,000 1 hour from a big city would be a negative to a Calena.No lady from Cali can be prepared for this.
My wife and her friends are not at all impressed with anything rural.They are used to the activity of a bustling city.To them its like being dropped at the north pole.They would be bored out of their minds.
Any lady coming here from Colombia is going to go through an adjustment period where she is probably going to be lonely and depressed.They are not only used to their city but their close family relationships.Thay have never experienced anything else.Homesickness is as natural as a 6 year old left with relatives by his mother and father.There is a void,a pit of the stomach feeling that is very powerfull and overwelming.My wife went through this and we live in a city of one million with a large latin population.She did not know anybody here other than me and my family.Now its easier for new Colombianas because my wife and her friends have a network going.
But throw on top of this living in a very remote and cold place and I think very few Colombianas could handle it.The first few months are tough.This makes them almost impossible.
We sort of get used to a certain isolationism here,even those of us who live in cities.Its very hard to take for someone who is use to many close relationships.
Reminds me of a small town my grandmother lived in when I was a kid.The only thing that was open on Sunday was a bus stop restaurant.It seemed like they rolled up the sidewalks it was so dead.I would be bored out of my mind in 2 days.

Pete