Why go to "the Source?"

[MarkInTx]

In response to El Diablo's question from below:

Why go to the source? If a woman is here already, isn't it better to date her?

I don't think so, and here is why...

Someone who has immigrated to the states, but has chosen to live within the safe four walls of their own sub-culture is different from a woman who chooses to come over here in the name of love.

The former has had an opportunity to assimilate to the American society and has chosen not to. (For a variety of reasons, some of which are very valid... but that's not the point...)

To understand the impact of this, switch things around...

In Texas, the best example I can give of this is to contrast two sports stars. Juan Gonzales and Sergei Zubov.

Juan Gonzales played for the rangers. He speaks spanish, of course, and is a well known superstar in a town where the Spanish sub-culture is vast. To this day, Juan will not give an interview in English, and claims he cannot speak it.

Sergei Zubov came over from Russia. There is a very small Russian subculture. He speaks fluent English.

If both of these men married an American Woman, what would the chances of a happy marriage be -- if the woman couldn't speak anything except English?

The woman would have to assimilate to the Spanish subculture if she wanted to stay with Juan Gonzales, because he had made it clear that he has no desire of branching out of his comfort zone.

Sergei Zubov's wife wouldn't have to, of course, since Zubov has made every effort to become more "American."

So... switch back now. Let's make general assumptions...

You are marrying a woman who speaks spanish (or portuguese) and is moving to America. You have a job in (probably) an american company. Your current friends speak english. Your neighbors do. You are probably not considering raising a family as part of a subculture.

So... what kind of a woman do you want?

I contend that if you find a woman who is here, and is still part of her native culture -- which here is a sub-culture, then she will not want to branch out into mainstream, and -- regardless of the other values she may have -- you will have a very hard time of it.

Anyway... that's what I've decided. Because, clearly in Texas, if all I wanted to do was date a Latina beauty, I wouldn't have to go very far...

[El Diablo]

... in response to Why go to "the Source?", posted by MarkInTx on Feb 18, 2002


I asked the question without actually giving my opinion.  But I find the responses interesting.  If I am to understand your response,  a recent Colombian immigrant to Queens for example is less desirable as a spouse because you believe in general she isn't motivated to assimilate.  On the other hand, a Colombian immigrant who arrives through marriage is showing by her willingness to marry a gringo that she wants to assimilate.  In your example, assimilation seems to me anyway to be tied to marrying a gringo.   Is this a fair standard for assimilation?

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re: Why go to "the Source?", posted by El Diablo on Feb 18, 2002

Wow, after that long post of mine, this is how you sum it up: "I define assimilation by willingness to marry a gringo?"

One of us missed something, somewhere...

I was not referring to just any Colombian who lives in America... If someone came over here to go to school, or had a job, or something like that... it would be different.

I am referring to a woman who came here and CHOOSES to live within the sub-culture.

In my case, that wouldn't be Colombian, since I'm not aware of a strong Colombian sub-culture in Texas.

It would be Mexican.

There are several Mexican ladies I would date. I have dated latinas whose family is from Mexico.

But... if she lives here, and still speaks spanish only. She goes to mexican club. Watches only Mexican TV. Shops only in Mexican stores...etc... Then I don't think there is much point in it.

She has chosen her culture, and it is not one that I would want to live in. Clearly, my culture is one that she does not want to live in either, and this makes us incompatible.

[El Diablo]

... in response to Not exactly, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 18, 2002


Actually yes that was the impression your post gave me.  When I framed the original question to Keith Smith it was only in terms of recent Colombian immigrants living in Keith's own back-yard in Queens as opposed to going to the source in Cali.  Queens is a very ethnic neighborhood with a large Colombian population and immigrants tend to live there within their own ethnic communities.  

You might consider it a sub-culture but from my perspective this is a positive not a negative.  Early in the 20th century we had waves of European immigrants and they lived in similar communities.  As the communities advanced themselves economicly they tended to move out into suburbia and I think the cities and communities suffered because of it.  There was a tendency in assimilation to throw the baby out with the bath water.  As an example, my best friend here in San Jose is a 2nd generation Mexican American and his Spanish is only slightly better than mine.  He wishes that his parents would have spoke Spanish in the household and not English and I understand his point.

El Diablo

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Not exactly, posted by El Diablo on Feb 18, 2002


I will agree that a person's heritage should be neglected.

Frankly, someone who is bi-lingual should work to help their child maintain being bi-lingual IMHO. Especially children who are gifted in learning languages.

I dated a woman once who was tri-lingual. SHe was divorced, and had a daughter. SHe would only speak to her daughter in Spanish, because her ex (who was cuban) only spoke English in his house... and she didn't want her daughter losing her Spanish.

I support that kind of forward thinking.

I don't think that one has to give up one's heritage to join into a new culture.

But insisting on staying and living in a sub-culture only hurts everyone...

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Heritage, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 18, 2002

Typo:

"I will agree that a person's heritage should be neglected"

Should read:

I will agree that a person's heritage should NOT be neglected

[stefang]

... in response to Heritage, posted by MarkInTx on Feb 18, 2002

My parents were French-Canadian and my mother basically spoke French to us while my father English. I plan on teaching my children French and English while my future (hopefully sooner than later)wife her language. It is harder for the kids growing up to learn many languages but later in life they tend to do better. It doesn't always work because my grammar is not very good.

[Michael B]

... in response to Why go to "the Source?", posted by MarkInTx on Feb 18, 2002

Mark, looks like we agree, for similar (but not quite identical) reasons, see my post under the "Just a Thought" thread.