your thoughts

[chris g]

First, thanks to everyone who has answered my before. I need a little help again. I just got an e-mail from my girl in Cambodia. She wants me to go there again so we can get married. I seems to be important to her that we marry in her country. I personaly do not care, as long as we are together. Now there is no way at all I can go this year. None at all. Also, if I did go, and get married, she would not be able to come with me at that time could she? Do we not have to be married here? The only way I see for it to work is if I have the paperwork all done, she gets approved I go there next year,( I know there is a time frame after approval so I would have to work out the times)  we get married, come here together, and get married here to be all legal in the gov't eyes. Does that sound right? I want to do what I can to honor her wishes, I mean she is going to leave everything she knows to be with me, so small price right? So any thoughts on how this can work? Thanks a bunch.

[Ray]

... in response to your thoughts, posted by chris g on Feb 26, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

Chris,

I ran across this info that I thought you may be interested in if you haven't seen it yet. It pertains to Cambodian visas being processed in Thailand.

http://usembassy.state.gov/cambodia/wwwh0017.html

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/services/visa/cambodiaiv.htm

Ray

[Bear]

... in response to your thoughts, posted by chris g on Feb 26, 2005

My wife and I went the K-3 and Honey was one of the 1st approved on the K-3 - shortly after 9-11 as a MOF.  It cost more and the time is slightly longer because of the dual filling and fees.  But the benefits are clear...

1)  The wedding is what the wife dreams about most of her youth.  Getting married and receiving the respect of her family and peers is important.  Note that you will also receive a tremendous amount of acceptance and respect for allowing it from both her and her family.  Family to asians is an integrated part of life, lose her the respect of her family and peers might cost you her later.

2)  The cost of the wedding and the quality of the wedding over there as to here isn't even comparable.  The wedding I spent $1800 on would have easily surpased $40-50K here - the dress alone would have been many times that.  The honeymoon cost less than we are spending for a formal party here this weekend for work.  Do it big and remember it for the rest of your life.

3)  The 2-3 months you save going K-1 over K-3 will never replace the memories of the wedding and the happiness of your wife.  (Small hints occasionally...?  Well maybe not.)  Hard to wait, yeah, bigtime!  I took my wife a laptop, webcam and set up a phone/ISP in her nipa hut so that we could stay connected and in touch daily.  Really helped.  Some of the most cheerished moments of our early marriage and some of the most indicating discussions came that way.  I even saved the e-mails and chats and will make a book from them for our posterity.

Find something good about the situation and the hard parts will fade eventually; but manipulate the process and you enable worries and fears to increase exponetially.  Don't put you or your wife through it.  We all survived and can help when you have concerns.

The Bear Family

[Bob S]

... in response to your thoughts, posted by chris g on Feb 26, 2005

I second Ray from my own experiences.  You cannot use a K-1 non-immigrant fiancée visa if you are legally married over there.  You would have to file for a K-3 immigrant visa which is a different animal and a bit more complex as you must already have your affidavit of support info ready (whereas for a K-1, you don't need to prove support ability till you do an adjustment of status after you are married here).  I got a friend in the foreign service.  I'll ask if there's any wait time difference.
The benefit of the K-3 is that you have one less hoop you have to jump thru with the USCIS (the adjustment of status phase).

You GF may be wanting a wedding in front of her family and in her church for personal or ceremonial reasons (in the eyes of God and family) and may not be too concerned with the legal rigmarole.  A number of guys here have recommended (and may have done themselves) a non-official marriage in their lady's home church, but not sign the papers at the city hall to make the marriage legal so they can still file for a fiancée visa.  Then when they arrive State-side, do a quickie ceremony at your city hall to make it all legal.  Something to consider.

[Bob S]

... in response to Methods, posted by Bob S on Feb 28, 2005

I got a response from my friend in the foreign service.  I guess I didn't make myself clear because his answer assumed the AM and his foreign fiancée were both residing in the same foreign country.  But anyway, he wrote:
"Even J-- [his wife] didn't really know the answer since she works in the visa unit dealing with non-immigrant visas, but she asked a colleague who said this:

The fastest way to get a new partner to the U.S. is to marry him or her in the native country before initiating the visa procedures and to apply for the visa while still in the native country with no break in residence in that country between the marriage and the visa application.

Make sense?  Hope that answers your friend's question."

IMO, this method makes sense even if you do not reside in the same country but are just in-country on an extended visit since you would be able to take advantage of the U.S. embassy's or consulate's citizen services section to get the forms and ask questions.  And you can submit your documents directly to the embassy and maybe shave a few weeks wait time off compared to submitting them to a regional Service Center here.

So, in summary, if you want to move things along quickly, start gathering all the documents of proof of identity (translated as necessary for her), ability to support, and history of relationship ASAP, and start filling out the forms (but do not sign or date anything yet).  Then get married and get a copy of the marriage certificate (translated).  Sign, date, and submit all the documents in person at the embassy.  If they say you're missing anything, take care of it right away.  THEN go on your honeymoon.  It could be 2 to 6 months before she is called for her interview, and you'll probably have to return to work long before then.  So getting your papers submitted to the embassy is a top priority.

Now, while this may be the fastest (legal) method, it's debatable whether it is the wisest.  As not every new immigrant can make a successful transition past the culture shock to life in a fast-paced 1st World industrialized nation, there are long discussions (particularly in the FSU forum archives of this and many other boards) on whether you should get married quickly or use as much of the 90-day fiancée visa as possible to see how she is adjusting before making a legally binding commitment.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Methods, follow-up, posted by Bob S on Mar 2, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

“The fastest way to get a new partner to the U.S. is to marry him or her in the native country before initiating the visa procedures and to apply for the visa while still in the native country with no break in residence in that country between the marriage and the visa application."

Bob, that person was referring to what is commonly called Direct Consular Filing or DCF for short. It can be done in some countries but not many. For the consular posts that allow DCF for immigrant visas, most require the American Citizen petitioner to be a resident of that country. For example, to use the DCF procedure in the Philippines, the petitioner generally must have been living there for at least 6 months. They have a small DHS staff at the embassy that processes those and it usually takes around 3-4 months to get a visa issued instead of the usual 9-12 months for those filed in the U.S.

I think Japan allows DCF for spousal visas even if the petitioner is not a resident. Hong Kong allows it if only one party is a Hong Kong resident. I know of American men who have married a Filipina OCW in Hong Kong and they got her CR-1 visa within 1 week of the wedding so they could return to the States together. I know a Thai lady who married an American in Thailand, then they flew to New Zealand and got a DCF immigrant visa for her in 5 days, so there are some loopholes available if you look hard enough.

I checked and Cambodia is not on the list of those countries where they allow liberal use of DCF. In fact, all immigrant and fiancée visas for Cambodians are processed in Bangkok, Thailand. Thailand only allows DCF if the petitioner is a resident of Thailand. There are always exceptions for humanitarian reasons, but I wouldn’t count on being able to do it in Cambodia.

Ray

[Bob S]

... in response to Re: Re: Methods, follow-up, posted by Ray on Mar 2, 2005

Good follow-up, and thanks for the clarification.

I guess if someone wants to know if they can do DCF for a particular country, they should contact the U.S. embassy for that country.  Some missions may simply be too small to handle that kind of paperwork.

See:  http://usembassy.state.gov/ for a list of embassies.

[chris g]

... in response to Re: Methods, follow-up, posted by Bob S on Mar 2, 2005

I will tell her the optiones available. I had told her we could marry here then in 2 years or so we could go there and marry again for her family. I think the main reason( and it is a guess) for wanting the wedding there is, they are kinda conservitive there. So a woman going off with a man she is not married to, may make it look like she is a "working girl".  Tounges wag in a small village. I would prefer to marry here due to time. It would mean that we could be married at the end of this year, instead of the end of next year. Thanks again for the help. I will post again with what will happen.

[chris g]

... in response to Methods, posted by Bob S on Feb 28, 2005

I want to know if in Cambodia, do they care if someone gets married?  I mean how close do they look at this? Would they inform the US gov't about the marriage? Or does the US gov't look into it? I was just thinking (foolishly?) that if I went and got married there, how is the US gov't gonna know? I can just say "No, we are not married". I think I will suggest your idea to my girl, it seems best. Besides, I'm sure my plan would come back to bite me on the butt later. Thanks again.

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Methods, posted by chris g on Feb 28, 2005

How about having a big, formal engagement party rather than some kind of fake wedding. Unless you have some religious issues - then just get married and do your K3. After reading Ray's post, I know I'd do everything I could to make sure every i was dotted and t crossed. I know those guys are pretty adept at pulling strings to uncover fraud and deception. They do that for a living. There are plenty of years ahead to remember back to the engagement period. I spent over two years til my wife arrived. Does it really matter if it takes 10 months instead of 9? - especially when the consequences for tripping up are, you're screwed for life.

- Jeff

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Methods, posted by chris g on Feb 28, 2005

Chris,

Yes, they do care if someone is married. Attempting to enter the country on a fiancée visa when already married is visa fraud and can get you banned for a long time, or maybe even for life. I don’t know how closely they look in Cambodia, but in the Philippines they do a government agency marriage check if they even suspect a prior marriage. When she applies for the visa, she must certify under oath that she is not married and that everything in the application is true and correct. You can read the forms yourself to see what penalties and fines are prescribed for falsifying information.

So what if you have a “fake” wedding without all the legal papers? Does your bride “consider” herself married even though it isn’t entirely legal? When the interviewing officer looks her directly in the eye and asks her if she is married, can she say NO without flinching? Some of those consular officers are very shrewd and can tell if she is being truthful or not. What if she forgets to take off her ring? What if a ring mark shows on her finger where a wedding band would go? What if she submits photos and she is wearing a wedding ring in one of the shots? What if they ask her a seemingly innocent question meant to trip her up, like “what day is your wedding anniversary?” or “where is your husband now”? I remember one girl was placed under investigation because she referred to her fiancé’s mother as her mother-in-law during the interview.

So what if she gets the fiancée visa first and then you get married before you leave? A visa does not guarantee entry to the U.S.  Actually, it just gets you on the plane and then you are admitted by the immigration officer at the port-of-entry. Those officers at the airport are much worse that the consular officers. They usually just welcome her to the States and stamp her papers, but occasionally they will grill her, especially if she appears nervous or hesitant in her answers. Again, if they suspect that she is already married or lying to them, they can and will cancel her visa and put her right back on the next plane home. Who she gets to interview her and what kind of mood they are in depends on the luck of the draw.

The bottom line is do you want to take the chance? Can she look directly into someone’s eyes and lie? Are you willing to take the risk to save a few months of waiting time? Others have been lucky and gotten away with it but a few have had their lives and their dreams devastated. Why put all that extra stress on your bride when she will already be going through a stressful procedure?

My advice is similar to robert angel’s. Don’t try to have it both ways. Either marry over there and wait for the spouse visa or go for the fiancée visa and wait to get married later. When you try to find a way around the rules, things sometimes blow up in your face.

If you find that you simply can not wait the extra time for a spouse visa, then why not consider marrying here on a fiancée visa and then returning in a year or so for proper wedding ceremony in her home town? A lot of guys have done it that way and everyone was happy.

Ray

[robert angel]

... in response to Re: Methods, posted by chris g on Feb 28, 2005

It's tempting to get married in Asia and make all the family happy and then not tell the govts that you're married so that the fiancee' visa can work. Instant gratification.I know people have pulled it off. But one jealous villager informs on you--one slip of the tongue by you or her--and you're toast on a stick. First of all--the fiancee' and spousal visa are getting closer and closer in the time it takes--so why risk it?--have a second wedding later--or a wedding there--w/o signing any legal forms--so everyone has a good time--enjoys the ceremony and then gets giddy crazy. Secondly--and MOST important--if the US govt. even senses you're lying--they can deny her entry FOREVER--they have great power to grant or deny at their descretion and once denied--you can almost always forget an appeal--it can be literally heartbreaking. With things like 30 day timelines for handwritten forms like bios and others to be completed and sent 9000 miles , then resent to Texas --all in 30 days--or they are not valid--I have been tempted to just type forms out and sign my fiancee's name--but I know that if caught--it could have horrific results. The govt. just has too much power and is too unforgiving to be trifled with in my opinion. I can paly a good game, but the stakes are too high and it's their table. It sucks, but that's the way it is. Play their game and you have a pretty good chance if you jump through all their hoops. Nowadays--they don't care if your God father is Teddy Kennedy--the USCIS--Dept. of Homeland security is a force--like a kingdom onto themselves and answer to only a few skull and cross bone govt types--people we're not even aware of, never mind privy too. It's harder than ever to cut red tape and to try and gain influence, no matter who you know. Try and be sly--you may be a heartbroken guy--with a devastated woman left behind...

[Ray]

... in response to your thoughts, posted by chris g on Feb 26, 2005

[This message has been edited by Ray]

If you marry over there, you will then need to file a petition for a CR-1 spouse visa (Form I-130). The K-3 spouse visa is another option but unless they speed up the processing it’s a waste of money right now. You can figure on about 9 months wait for a CR-1 visa, but could be a little shorter or much longer depending on many factors. There is NO way that she would legally be able to come back right away with you after the wedding unless she somehow was able to obtain a visitor visa but the chances of that are probably slim and none. If you marry over there then you are married here by default so there would be no requirement to do it again after she arrives in the States.

If she has a fiancée visa and then you decide to marry over there, the fiancée visa can not be used. She MUST be unmarried in order to use a fiancée visa!

I would explain all the details to her about the waiting times for a visa and then let her decide which wedding she wants. I am a firm believer that the bride should have it her way for the wedding.

Ray