Panabo City or Panic City?

[Luther]

Hi everybody, I'm Luther and this is my first post.  I was trying to squeeze free info out of K-1 lawyers and similar services on the internet, when I was lucky enough to be introduced by my fiancee in Panabo City to my new nephew Howard.  Howard has been more helpful than ten lawyers and all my "real" American relatives combined, and this website is great too.  Finally someone understands my interest in a woman who actually WANTS to love me!

I was assuming from what info I could squeeze out of one of those K-1 lawyers that only my current and last year income levels would be taken into account.  But because of a comment in Ray's 6-26 post, I am now in a panic.  If they go back three or four years I'm gonna be single for a long time.  Sub-poverty level was home for me off-and-on for too long, and now that my soul is enriched by finding a real woman to spend my life with, can someone give me the lowdown on exactly how much of my IRS past is gonna actually be asked for?  By the visa process, or by the embassy in Manila?

I've told my sweetheart, fiancee and soulmate Jovie that I would move to the Philippines to be with her, and it's true, I would!  But since she was advertising for an American penpal I assume her preference would be to join me here....

The other technicality that one lawyer said "should" be no problem is that last year's income and this year's income (hopefully not next year's) will have to take Social Security disability payments into account in order to get me over poverty level.

Another question: is it really true that I should NOT marry her when I go to the Philippines to visit, because it will actually slow the process down?  I see hints originating with Harold that this might not be true any longer.  And if it isn't true, why not, what has changed?  The K-1 is apparently what people are all used to, but if getting married abroad is now the faster way, I'm just starting this and I want to do it the best way for today's bureaucratic scene.  One person insisted that I marry her now and find a sponsor here to cover the income glitches.  ??

There is the other Point, well made in other posts, that we should do the Spousal or Fiancee visa as befits our own personal needs as a couple, not just because one might be a few months faster.  Problem is, if I have to get a sponsor because of a few bad IRS returns, I know it'll work with Spousal but I don't have any clue if it can be done with K-1...except a K-1 attorney said no way...but I don't like to take very many of my clues from attorneys.

It's good to know this site exists, and WELCOME TO THE USA, MY FUTURE NIECE GERLIE!

[Howard]

... in response to Panabo City or Panic City?, posted by Luther on Sep 10, 2004

L~

As I have already addressed most of these issues, I will just say Hi and welcome aboard  Everyone giving advice already knows my feelings on these topics and some are certainly better at factual advise than I am.  I will be more of your philisophical advisor  HAhahahahahaa

Keep the Faith!

H

[Ray]

... in response to Panabo City or Panic City?, posted by Luther on Sep 10, 2004

Hi Luther. Welcome aboard!

You should figure on providing copies of your 3 most recent years’ tax returns with W-2’s. If you didn’t file for any of those years, they will want a written explanation why no return was filed. The most single important factor in determining if you pass the muster for income purposes will be your CURRENT income from employment. If you are currently working in a permanent position with a steady income above the minimum, then you will probably be O.K. If your income is borderline or you just recently went back to work, then they will probably look more closely at your recent years’ income history to help evaluate your financial situation.

Just because you were unemployed for a year or two won’t disqualify you by itself. The bottom line is that they are trying to determine if your fiancée/spouse is likely to become a public charge when she is here. They can look at her entire situation to determine that, including not only your income but also her age, education, work experience, health, etc…

If your current income is not from regular employment, then they will probably take a closer look at your situation. If you are self employed, they will want to see some hard evidence of sustained income, which is where your previous tax returns will play a bigger role. If most of or all of your income is from disability payments, then you may have a problem. For K visa applicants, Manila may not accept any co-sponsor affidavits to compensate for your lack of income. For immigrant spouse visa (CR-1) applicants, the laws are a little more rigidly defined as far as income level and allowable joint sponsors. Either way though, the public charge question is what you ultimately have to satisfy. Can you comfortably support a wife and family on your current income? If not, then your chances are slim.

What I would recommend is that you download a Form I-864 with instructions and study it carefully to see how your situation fits in with the requirements. That way you’ll have a goal to work toward.

As far as which visa type is faster, it depends mostly on where you live, but there is no guarantee that one method will be faster than the other (Ask Howard). Instead of thinking strictly in terms of waiting times for a visa, I would put the primary emphasis on which method will make your bride happy and then do what you can to make it happen.

Ray

[Luther]

... in response to Re: Panabo City or Panic City?, posted by Ray on Sep 11, 2004

Thanks Ray.  I got the I-864 Affidavit of Support, I didn't know about it.  I had been looking at I-134, which must be for something else.

I couldn't find something called CR-1 visa for immigrant spouse on the govt site.  Not surprising, they don't have anything called K-1 or K-3 either, so they keep us guessing.  (The rest of this posting will be emotional ranting, a warning for those who aren't interested...) Good thing we have each other, you could study the govt websites your whole life without being able to predict what they are going to actually do to you when you fill out one of their forms.

At the very least they will change their name and the name of their paperwork so many times...now I'm raving.  But they are like spamming con artists in some ways, unpredictable, name-changing, shape-shifting; on the other hand they are reactionary neurotics: control freaks who like to say no, who can end another person's dreams with a flick of the wrist and then go home and sleep like baby.  I personally doubt very much that foreigners on the dole is that serious of a problem in this country.  It's TV-bred Americans that raise lazy kids who end up on welfare, not traditional 3rd world families.

But I will not give up.  Worst case scenario: Jovie and I will have to settle for two or three visits per year for the next two or three years while I maintain the required income level, assuming she will wait that long.  I wouldn't fault her for not waiting if that's what it comes down to.  It sounds pretty bad, what if we are doddering senior citizens by the time we end up on our honeymoon?

Part of the worst case scenario: adopting kids.  I have no objection to it, just more red tape and more bureaucratic hurdles and similar questions about income.

The difference between feeling discouraged and giving up is DEVOTED AND COMMITTED LOVE.  Without that, this globe would have stopped spinning due to discouragement a long time ago...one thing Hollywood still occasionally gets right: caring makes the world go round.

[Ray]

... in response to what's CR-1 visa, posted by Luther on Sep 12, 2004

Luther,

I don’t know which govt sites you’re looking at, but there is a wealth of info if you can find it. USCIS.GOV has a lot of stuff that will help you. Look under FAQ’s and dig around a little.

Also, the US Embassy in Manila has a Web site with loads of good info. For a rough comparison of visa types for your fiancée/spouse, check here:

http://usembassy.state.gov/manila/wwwh3204.html

If you marry overseas and petition your wife with a Form I-130, then she will be processed for an immigrant visa as an immediate relative of a US citizen with a visa type of IR-1 or CR-1. The IR-1 is for those married over 2 years at the time of entry and the CR-1 is simply a conditional version of the IR-1 for those married less than 2 years at time of entry.

“Shape-shifting”? ROFL! Yes, it can certainly be a pain in the ass dealing with the government bureaucracy, but I don’t think they really ‘like’ saying NO. However, a few of those “civil servants” do forget their place and let the power go to their heads. It’s our job to keep them in line, but it isn’t often wise to stir up too much shit while the paperwork is still in the mill.

I don’t see any reason that you will have to wait 2 or 3 years. If she is 41 and you guys are planning to have children, you better not wait too long! Those ovaries start shutting down around that age and your sperm probably aren’t nearly as lively as they were at one time (LOL).

As far as Filipinos or Asians on the dole, I agree with you. Of the hundreds of Filipinas I have known in the States, I can only think of one that was on welfare. She was only drawing benefits for a few months because her husband was in the penitentiary and she had 3 kids to feed.

Ray

[Luther]

... in response to Re: what's CR-1 visa, posted by Ray on Sep 12, 2004

Here's what I believe I have to be optimistic about.  If the embassy interviewer recognizes sincerity when they see it, they are gonna see it in Jovie when they interview her.  While my income may be marginal in their eyes, Jovie has had the same job for 13 years...now shouldn't that count for something, if subjective impressions mean something?  If all they're looking to say no to is the women who are coming to the US looking for handouts, Jovie has NO red flags to cause anyone to worry.  My gross income is now (and will be at the time we apply for the visa), well over the line...I'm talking to myself here, trying to bolster my own confidence.

Thanks, Ray, for the sobering facts and also for the encouragement and the answers to specific questions.  I DON'T  want to wait 2 or 3 years and if the person who interviews Jovie is a human being I think my right to marry who I want and the fact that I'm "technically" over the poverty line (counting disability income) will win out and get my sweetheart over here.  Despite spotty income of the past three years.  I hope.  I can only hope.  Sounds like the sponsor affidavit might not be the way to start out?  I will do more reading on the govt sites.

I take it from other posts I've seen that the 20 pounds of email I've printed out is of no consequence, it's the cards we send weekly (mushy love letters to be sure) and the phone bills and the photos we will take when I visit that will count most for evidence that we have a real relationship.  And the more I give them to look at, the more likely they are to get impatient and imagine a red flag?  So it's quality not quantity...

This is real basic stuff for a lot of you and thank you all for welcoming newbies who need to start from the beginning and hash it out all over again.

Ray, how have you come to know hundreds of Filipinas in the US?  I looked in the archives but they don't go back as far as you do.  Just curious.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: what's CR-1 visa, posted by Luther on Sep 12, 2004

I would be careful not to put too much of the blame on the embassy people for enforcing what our elected representatives have mandated by law. They are tasked with enforcing the laws, not making them and I do recognize the difficulty of their task. I think the great majority of them are sincere and helpful and want you to succeed in your quest for a foreign spouse.

Of course her sincerity and her work history will be a plus. Unfortunately, they will be looking at your income and financial situation as the primary test of the public charge concerns. Unless she has substantial financial resources (e.g. cash savings), your support is the main issue but certainly not the only issue. They are still supposed to look at the totality of her circumstances.

Again, I think you are putting too much concern on your past economic history. I would guess that your current income and your ability to support a family in the near future will account for 90% of the criteria for determining the public charge issue. We have members right here on this forum who filed petitions for fiancée visas shortly after going through bankruptcies and had no problem whatsoever with getting approved.

On the e-mail issue, there is no reason to discount e-mail as proof of relationship. Electronic communication is a fact of life and there are simply not very many of us left out there with the energy or desire to sit down and write daily snail-mail letters by hand. The embassy will certainly accept and consider your e-mail communication as valid evidence of communication. The advantage of snail-mail evidence is that the envelopes carry official postal marks as evidence of the timeframe involved. What they are looking for is anything to show that your relationship is not being faked to provide cover for a fraudulent visa scam. Evidence of sustained and continual communication of any sort is viable evidence. I would have to say that the quantity is just as important as the quality. When she submits her proof-of-relationship evidence at her medical exam, they will probably limit her submittals to about a half-dozen each of cards & letters, photos, e-mail printouts, etc. They will want to see evidence that covers the entire period of your relationship, so a representative sampling of correspondence would be appropriate. However, she can bring anything else to her interview for consideration, so she should definitely have additional photos and correspondence on hand when she is interviewed.

You asked how I have come to know hundreds of Filipinas in the U.S.? I spent 20 years in the U.S. Navy and many of my friends and shipmates married Filipinas and brought them here to San Diego. I was married to my Filipina first wife for 23 years and 95% of my neighbors are Filipino. My family physician is Filipina, my dentist is Filipino, my barber is Filipina, 50% of the members of our church are Filipino, etc…

Ray

[Luther]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: what's CR-1 visa, posted by Ray on Sep 13, 2004

If we get married in the US, it will be in Portland where my family lives.  I've contacted the Filipino community support organization in Portland for advice on which Catholic church to get married at, with hopes that the priest who does our counseling sessions (do they still do that stuff?) and the ceremony will be familiar with the Filipina/Westerner marriage phenomenon...that is, not some average white guy who thinks "mail order bride" is a bad word.

Of course I've gotten no response to my query...should I call each of the 45 Catholic churches in Portland until I find one willing to fork over the answer to my question?  Or does someone out there have a list of Filipino-populated Catholic churches in the US?

[Ray]

... in response to Filipino church in Portland, Oregon, posted by Luther on Sep 13, 2004

I would try to find a church that will marry you within 90 days of her arrival. That may be the tricky part. I think most churches will want you to wait 9 months. Perhaps they can work out something where she could take part of the mandatory counseling overseas before she arrives(?).

I wouldn’t worry too much about finding a “Filipino” parish, unless you want them to do a traditional kasalan (Filipino wedding). My neighbor here in San Diego had the traditional Filipino wedding here with the veil, candles, cord, Coins, etc…

Ray

[Luther]

... in response to Re: Filipino church in Portland, Oregon, posted by Ray on Sep 13, 2004

Now that's interesting, 9 months is obviously impossible, but 90 days is also a long time...She wants instant wedding, then instant baby.  If she was 21 I would consider that a red flag, but because she's almost 42 and I'm 48, I think it's ok and maybe even smart to skip unnecessary steps.  Looks like I better talk to her about a Nevada wedding...or a Philippines wedding.  One more vote for the K-3.  To be married with neither of our families present would be very compromising to her, I'm sure.

Anybody know what kind of time frame a Filipino priest is gonna expect for getting to know each other, counseling, conversion to Catholicism (if necessary), etc.?  I'll ask Jovie too.  If I can get over the hurdle of "Let us have just the fiancee visa, honey ko."

There is also the new age wedding...lots of people have preacher papers and I know a few of them personally.  My friend from Hawaii could fly in to Reno, marry us in the airport, and take the next flight back to Lahaina.

Two more votes for the K-3.  First honeymoon in Phils, 2nd honeymoon on her arrival in the US.

[Ray]

... in response to wedding schedules, posted by Luther on Sep 13, 2004

Actually, the Catholic Church in the Philippines is generally more willing to bend the rules a little when necessary. I did all of the counseling requirements in one day under special arrangement and got married 2 days later in a big church wedding. Have your girl check with her local parish for their requirements in your particular case. Advance planning is the key!

Some local church jurisdictions in the Phils will want you to convert to Catholic, but many others won’t. Official church policy does not require the non-Catholic partner to convert but requires permission from the local bishop. So it simply depends on the policy of the local bishop. I have known guys who did the conversion in 2-3 weeks. It would probably take you 9-12 months to convert here in the States.

I have found that big traditional church weddings in the Phils usually cost about 1/7th to 1/10th of the cost here in the US for something similar. A good size wedding with 100-200 guests would probably run about 2-3 thousand dollars or so in smaller towns but could be done for even less if need be. The max would probably be somewhere around $6,000 in most areas except Manila for the super deluxe version. If she really wants a church wedding in the Phils, then grant her her wish if possible. The tricky part is determining what she REALLY wants. Don’t accept the standard answer “it’s up to you hun”… :-)

Ray

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: what's CR-1 visa, posted by Ray on Sep 13, 2004

I know about half of the Orange County Japanese community myself. My dentist, barber, exterminator, gardener, stockbroker, insurance agent, and on and on are Japanese also. Once you get into the local ethnic community it just happens that way. All the more reason to respect the culture you're looking for a wife in. You'd better plan on having that country's people, food, customs, religious ceremonies, etc, etc, for the rest of your life. Though I see them all of the time, I only know one Filipina - Tess (of Stephen and Tess.)

- Jeff

[don2222]

... in response to Panabo City or Panic City?, posted by Luther on Sep 10, 2004

Why do you assume that Jovie would only be happy with you in America ?  Have you asked her if she would be happy with you in the Phils ?  Ray will probably be along shortly to answer your questions  :0)

Don

[Luther]

... in response to Re: Panabo City or Panic City?, posted by don2222 on Sep 10, 2004

Yes, I knew someone would pick up on my misuse of the word assume.  That was a shortcut on my part...I've brought it up with her (me moving to Phils), but her response was not direct enough for me to interpret.  She looked real serious and I said, Don't be sad.  Then she said something to the effect that she had taken it as a compliment that I would move to the Philippines to be with her.  But her preference seems to be to follow me where I need to be.  And I believe one of her tests of my ability to support her is that I won't just drop everything (I'm in training for a new career) and come running to her where I might become a burden.  So all my conjecturing about her real feelings plus the mini-language barrier plus her reluctance to discuss it, led to my use of the word "assume" so I could stay on point about my K-1 questions.

Jovie is certainly not reluctant to discuss her love for me, her devotion and trust, and the family that we hope to have together!  That's what I'm focusing on, and on keeping the perfect situation I'm in now, which will lead soon to the ability to provide for a family.  Something I was never inspired to do with any of the American women I've known.

My reluctance in asking her if I should move there is that it seems like a bad idea right now so rather than scare her by appearing to push a bad idea, I'd rather keep things simple by dropping the topic and staying the course, which is to support her here, not for her to support me there while I look for work in a foreign country (she's had the same job for 13 years!)...my don't I ramble on, though...