Couple of issues about Japanese women

[Bueller]

Howdy, y'all. I usually post on the Latin board, but now have an Asian question.

 I have lived in Brazil for a year and a half and plan to stay here. This week I met a very nice Brazilian lady of Japanese descent, thirty-two years old, who has a four-year-old child and is finalizing a divorce right now.

 One sort-of issue: two nights ago we went by her parents' house to pick up her son, whom they babysit during the day. The parents were born in Brazil as well. We walked in the front door, she told daddy-o my name, and he just scowled in our direction, grunted, and kept watching TV. Her mom did slightly better; I seem to recall she actually shook my hand. Later N told me she thought her mom liked me; N must read the signals better than me. The next morning when we dropped off N's son, her mom sort of smiled at me, so maybe there's something there :-P.

 This made me think, oh brother, I went through this sort of thing several years ago in California with a girlfriend whose mother was from Tokyo and was a bump on a log, and have less than zero enthusiasm for going through it again.

 In this situation, as in the California situation, the daughter repudiates her parents' jealous and controlling behavior and does not emulate it in any way; she is very sweet. This situation is a little different in that she is independent and has as little contact as possible with her parents; to her credit she does not let herself come under their thumb. If we were to get married we would be living about 500 miles away and just as when N lived and worked in Japan, she would not go much out of her way to talk to them. She complained half jokingly to a friend, "My parents are my biggest impediment to finding a good husband-- who would want them for in-laws?" But dang it, if I get married, I want to have the sort of in-laws that would be nice to invite over and be friends with. I also plan to treat my wife very well, and wouldn't want to reward these people's dysfunctional attitude with the satisfaction of thinking I was doing so to win them over. Don't know what my question is here, but feel free to comment...

 I left N's house yesterday and headed south to São Paulo, and went to the Liberdade neighborhood to visit a Korean/Japanese buffet for lunch. Liberdade is the main Japanese neighborhood of Brazil, and Brazil has the largest Japanese population outside of Japan itself, and wandering around there was an unsettling reminder of something I already knew: Japanese women don't age very well. I find N quite attractive, and she takes good care of herself, but looking around Liberdade at women in their fifties or so, coming events aren't looking so good. Everyone who lives long enough ages and falls apart physically, but...anyone know what I mean?

[Jeff S]

... in response to Couple of issues about Japanese women, posted by Bueller on Dec 12, 2003

I also agree with Bob's assessment about family. My father-in-law eventually came around to my way of thinking, though. Treat her right and they'll come around - particularly if you show simple respect to them no matter what. They likely think of non-Japanese as barbarians not schooled in manners. Ask your wife what is or isn't appropriate and let her coach you in the sublties of the relationship.

Japanese in-general are not easy to get to know. They have a shell they wear in public. My father-in-law frequented a fairly famous resturaunt in a Tokyo hotel for his entire working career. He was there, in the same booth, several times a week. Another business man had the booth next to him. It was nearly 20 years of them sitting next to each other before they began to acknowledge each other's presence. It's a different world, one that moves very slowly with regards to relationships. One outburst can ruin years of setup, but, still waters run deep, and once a relationship has been established, it can weather plenty of turmoil.

As far as Japanese not aging well - maybe in Brazil - but spend some time in modern Japan, and you'll see just the opposite. My mother-in-law in her 70s looked better than many 40something AWs, and I can march plenty of 40something Japanese women in front of you that you'd swear are in their 20s. Remember, some of those bent over obaasans are probably in their 90s since Japan has the longest average lifespan of any country in the world.

- Jeff

[Bob S]

... in response to Couple of issues about Japanese women, posted by Bueller on Dec 12, 2003

What you experienced with your GF's father is stereotypically common among Japanese fathers: no one is good enough for my little girl.  Even if you were of Japanese ancestry, his response would not be much better.

"I want to have the sort of in-laws that would be nice to invite over and be friends with."
Well, what are your true motives for finding a wife?  Are you looking for a good woman who is compatible for your interests, personality, and temperament?  Or are you looking for someone who will bring you a surrogate friendly father-figure?

When my Akiko chose to marry me and move to America in defiance of her father's wishes (orders?), he refused to even meet me, and stopped speaking to her.  Does it hurt me?  No.  I already have a father, thank you very much.  I find it sadly comical, like out of some maudlin TV drama.  He's only hurting himself and his daughter who becomes only more determined not to capitulate to his obstinacy. Would it be nice to have friendly in-laws?  Sure.  But putting up with this little family drama (minor in the grand scheme of things) is a small price to pay to have someone as perfectly matched as Akiko by my side.  Besides, the rest of her family who've met me likes me.  :-)  And we figure he'll come around after we start bringing back grandkids to meet him.  Additionally, I don't know any couple where one of the partners doesn't have to cope with strange in-laws brought to the relationship by their spouse (if that made any sense). :-o

Oh yeah, on aging.  you can't really judge by their parents' generation.  Those born and raised during the war years and experienced all manner of deprivations age differently from those raised in the affluent post-war baby boom years.  From what I've seen, most women under 50 (and more than a few over 50) appear 5 to 10 years younger than their true age.  It's the really ancient obasans that appear so tiny and stooped.

[Bueller]

... in response to Japanese father-in-laws, posted by Bob S on Dec 12, 2003

Thanks. Actually the in-laws issue is a bit of a smokescreen. My real fear is the looks/aging thing. But you're probably right about hardships causing a lot of that; it seems to happen a lot in the FSU as well. Many women in the Ukraine are beautiful until about thirty-five, then just go you-know-where in a handbasket, seemingly overnight. On the other hand I know at least one Ukranian woman in her sixties who has lived the majority of her life in a comfortable existence in the U.S. and is still amazingly pretty for her age.

 This woman is really sincere about finding real love. She just needs to know I'm for real, and it's ton-of-bricks time. As long as I can be sure I'll still find her attractive twenty years from now, there's no reason to keep on looking.

[Bob S]

... in response to Re: Japanese father-in-laws, posted by Bueller on Dec 12, 2003

I hear what you're saying about the FSU.  West of the Danube,
you'd be hard pressed to find as many vainly beautiful young
women in one place as you can find on the streets of St. Pete.  But
the harshness of life does take it's toll.  Someone in their late 40s
or early 50s can look like they're in their 60s.  But transplant them
to the West where the stresses of life aren't so great, and their
vanity-inspired beauty efforts have greater lasting effect.  (On a
side note, that harshness of life in the FSU can too often create
side effects of character that offset that youthful beauty, and IMHO
make the countries of the Far East a much less risky environment
for seeking a supportive caring spouse and life partner.)

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Japanese father-in-laws, posted by Bueller on Dec 12, 2003

Hi Bueller,

I have found that it is usually the lifestyle of the individual that ages them, especially on the outside. A hard life, sun exposure, cooking over wood fires, smoking, illness and disease, malnutrition, multiple births, hard work, lack of physical pampering, etc., all contribute in making one appear physically older than their chronological age. I believe that Latinas and Asians tend to age very well. I have met many Latinas and Asians who were in their 50's and 60's who were very attractive and could have passed for being in their 30's to 40's. Once, a stunning 63 year-old Latina showed me her driver's license to prove that she wasn't 35. I have also met women who looked much older than their actual age. Aging differences can even be seen among siblings, especially when they have led different lifestyles.

I also agree with Jeff. An Asian woman that you might suspect didn't age very well, might be very much older than you realize.

Good Luck

Dave H.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Japanese father-in-laws, posted by Bueller on Dec 12, 2003

Hi Bueller,

There is a simple solution to your concern over what she will look like in 20 years. Marry an ugly one, then you won't care what happens to her looks later on :-)

Ray

[Bueller]

... in response to Re: Japanese father-in-laws, posted by Bueller on Dec 12, 2003

Someone from the Latin board was fond of saying a long way back, "The most beautiful woman in the world is the one who lights up when *you* walk into the room." This woman is that way with me.