A sobering thought

[Peter Lee]

A sobering thought,   

Well everyone I just received a phone call from one of my friends who has a very successful business in Miami.   He is Cuban and has lots of family hitting on him for help and money.   I told him of my situation with my wife’s parents and the house being torn down coz of the widening of the road.   He listened and told me of how many times he has helped his poor family members.   He advised me to do nothing and not help at this time.   He told me to let the Dad get into debt and get out of their situation best they can.  He knows my wife is not even here yet.  He said when the wife is here and shows me her dedication then that is the time to go to the PI and see the situation yourself and help.   He said sending money could be a bomb shell, why are they in the predicament they are in right now?  They have made bad decisions in the past and now they will do it again with your money.  I seem to think that I would get different answers from the Latin board than the Asian board.  
But I am married to a Filipina and asking a Latin guy would be ok if I was married to a Latino.  But at first I had the same thoughts as him and started to compromise after I had a talk to the parents.  

Well, prior to his phone call I had talked to my wife for 1hr 40min to her cell phone and had her Dad on the phone.  He couldn’t speak to much English and had a problem with communication.   I used my wife as the interpreter and got the figures for the cost of the new house.   Carpenters were expensive and they had to feed them breakfast and lunch.   The contractor says it was 130,000 peso.   Prior to this I asked my wife about the price of the project and she didn’t know and threw figures of 60,000 and 75,000 with out any details.  So my idea was to talk to the Dad himself and get the story straight from him.   But it seemed that he was going to get an 85,000 loan from the bank at 20%.  He would still be 18,000 short and would have to sell another caribou.   Dad already sold a caribou and the cow for 27,000 peso and used that to start the foundation and cement for the new house.   You know I struggled with this discussion of what to do and how much to help.   I talked to the Dad and as I expected he seemed like a nice meek uneducated farmer.  I truly feel that he has been put into an unfortunate predicament late in his life.   He has the responsibility to raise 2 more young daughters one 11 the other one 15.  
I decided to help but not sure just how, after talking to the parents themselves I was convinced they would be in deep debt when the house was finished.   A loan from the bank using his land as collateral would mean that if he ever got sick or the harvest had a problem he would be charged for 20% on the 20% and a possibility to loose the house and land.   If ever that happened I would end up having to help the two young daughters and the parents in the end.   My help would be a life raft for them if I help them partially or a whole boat if I help fully.

By now I trust my wife and she indicated that if I didn’t help she would understand.  She never directly asked for money but did say it was sad the predicament her parents were in.  I thought of how much money I saved on the honeymoon with her help.  I save lots of money with the civil wedding also.  $1500 help for the house would not be unreasonable if I factor that in the decision making.    

The worst scenario would be that the price of the house is inflated and vendors are not being paid and I would look like a stupid Kano that can be tricked into sending money.   It could open up the door to ask for more money later for all kinds of excuses.  
So my judgment on life experience has not been good in the past.  I will go into this thinking it is the right thing to do.  If handled badly this could affect the attitude of my wife in the future.  

I decided to deposit $500 in my ATM card and $200 for my wife when she is in Cebu to continue her passport and NSO marriage certificate applications.  That way if everything is legitimate the house can be started without the parents getting a bank loan or more selling of the live stock.   That leaves $1,400 left to finish the house.   My thoughts on that was either stop sending any more money or send $700 for Nov and Dec and it is done.   I could ask for receipts from the vendors through my wife and all that but I either trust them or not.   Maricel is instructed to take the money from the ATM and have it transferred to the bank in Kapatagan so she doesn’t have to travel with that money and her mom can withdraw to continue the house project.   I am looking for red flags here and blinded by a marriage with loyalty it is hard to see them.   When in Panglao one of the real-estate women had just built a house that cost 70,000 peso.  It was not finished but concrete walls floor and a tin roof.   Does any one know if the price of this house is within a reasonable budget at 130,000?   I was not sure of the size of the house the Dad said it was 2 bedrooms.  So it sounds small but it may be expensive because of the materials in the mountains may be more expensive.  
I told my wife that if I do send the $700 in Nov that she is free to also chip in by sacrificing and budgeting to live on $100 for allowance. She did not like the idea but later said she would do it.  
Maricel wants to work but I explained that the money she would make after renting a place, food and expenses there would be little left for savings to help her parents.   It may be a good idea to keep her busy and see how hard money is to come by.  
There is very few ways to help a Philippine farmer; he needs live stock land and a house.  All in all the risk to me outweighs the benefits in the long run but I still have more deciding to do.

I know about some of you said I should do this with no strings attached and not monitor if the vendors are paid.   Some of you suggested having the parents sign over the property to my wife as collateral.   I thought in the end what is the point, there has to be some trust here sooner or later.   If I received help from a relative I would not expect them to attach a lot conditions to it.  If they were truly desperate they would do anything I say anyway.   The matter of pride is also an issue which I have not dealt with yet.  
Thanks for listening and have a good one.
Peter Lee

[Febtember]

... in response to A sobering thought, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 20, 2003

Guys and Gals in PL board do you hear this saying before?I just hear this saying not to long ago when I'm having a bad mood.One day my hubby do something that make me having really bad mood and never talk to him for two hours( I make tampo"sulking").He know that I am moody because my Nun sister warn him before I came here.My mother reason why I am always moody because I was born february.Then my hubby say about"Now I beleive that marriage is a penance and for some reason I realize that I got the best penance and tell my hubby that he must be not so good before because he got me as his penance.Him and me laugh so loud after I tell him hahaha you are bad boy before and its true I am good girl.I beleive in this saying too.My point here is about Peter case.Peter always realize now that this saying is true.You got your penance now buddy.Raquel

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Marriage is Penance, posted by Febtember on Oct 21, 2003

Ha heehe hahaha
Yes, I was waiting for my Penance and it finally caught me.  But you know that I wouldn't trade places with anyone in the world right now.   I only wish that these problems I have stay small.  Coz we know there are people in the world with big problems that can't be fixed.   I appreciate everyone's input on the small problem I have and hope your problems are small like mine.  But I feel comfortable sharing these things with you coz we all have similar problems from two different cultures.      

[lswote]

... in response to A sobering thought, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 20, 2003

Peter, I can't get past my experience that a liar is always a liar.  I unfortunately know from personal experience.  I want to believe your wife made a one-time mistake when you first met her regarding the way she lied to you about the money for school, but frankly my experience tells me she didn't.  Just because she isn't asking for money, doesn't mean she isn't trying to manipulate you into giving it.  I had my first Colombian girlfriend get $800 from me and never asked for a dime.  She just wouldn't talk about anything other than her financial problems and I volunteered to give her money so I could get the financial problems out of the way and get things back to the way they were before she started talking about her money problems.  But once I gave her the money she dropped me.  Similarly you wife is not asking for money, but she seems to be bringing it up often enough that you are indirectly forced to deal with it.  And your wife probably won't drop you but continue to milk you for as long as she can.

I don't see you as someone who can afford to give away a lot of money hoping that it will go to good purposes.  Suppose this had happened 6 months ago or a year ago.  If you were just getting to know your wife and she was always bringing up the difficulties her parents were having, would you have kept talking to her and ask her to marry you?  Things aren't really that different from when you first met her because you just don't know what kind of person she really is.  A one month honeymoon just doesn't tell you enough.  And even then her behavior was questionable, her throwing a fit over losing her virginity to a man that she wasn't married to even though you both had discussed this and it was your full intention to marry her, but you had to get all the prerequistist to marry handled.  And her parents would be in the situation they are in (if it is even true they are in that situation) whether you were in the picture of not, the problem is not of your making.  At some point in time you HAVE to get some validation on what kind of woman you wife is before you continue to make decisions that put your own circumstances at risk.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: A sobering thought, posted by lswote on Oct 21, 2003

Thanks for the advice.

Of course you are right, but I had a conscience and was thinking what if it is all true.  What could be the harm of sending $500 in good faith?  It is a small price to pay to see what the whole family is about.  If the Dad is cheated by the Officials or I am being cheated I will find out sooner or later.  Meanwhile I would feel guilty even if I am not responsible for the parents at this time.  You are right that it is a bit early to help so soon.  The problem is making validation on the whole thing that would make me feel better.  I made the decision to send the money after talking to her dad on the phone and thinking it over.  She is after all not my gf or fiancé. She is my wife.  I thought a show of good faith would be the right thing to do.  
The big factor in this was if ever her dad would lose the farm or be on so much debt he would have a hard time making a living I would be called on to help.   But my wife did say that papa had it all under control and sold the livestock to start the foundation.  My first reaction to her was "No" when asked to help.  Because of the earlier incidence were she lied back in Jan she said no more about it unless I asked her.  The show of faith money is buying me time to asses the situation better.  You are right again about waiting for her to be here before I help the parents more.  If I visit in Feb and see for myself they really need help what do you think I should do then?

[Bear]

... in response to A sobering thought, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 20, 2003

that you should advise your family of the law in the R.P. that says that anyone living on the right-of-way or government own land must be moved at governement expense before any project can be started.  There should be no cost for your wifes fammily.  Someone is getting scammed here.

Bear and Honey

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Honey says..., posted by Bear on Oct 21, 2003

I am sure you have researched this law otherwise you wouldn't post it.  Now that I am aware of this it causes a problem.  Is Papa getting ripped off or me?   Although I traveled to a lot of Islands I did not visit Kapatagan.  I am sure you are aware by now that I was advised by many not to visit there at this time.  I just got off the chat line with my wife she is now in Cebu and has withdrawn my money from the ATM and had it transferred to a bank in Kapatagan this way she doesn't have to travel with a lot of money.  I sent her $500 for her papa's house plus $200 for herself for a room in Cebu and to finish paperwork on her NSO marriage certificate and starting the passport application. The two ferry rides and bus one way is also an extra expense plus food while she travels.  I would like to say that it would be a sad day for me if what I am being told is not a true story.  
I know there are some hard liners and soft ones that are posting.  This is still a difficult decision on what the best thing to-do.  My gut instinct was to do nothing and wait.  But as some of you if you were in the same predicament had reservations.  
I have decided to send $500 in good faith in case the parents are in need.  It was hard for me to hear that papa already sold a cow and caribou to set the foundation.
Now that you have told me about the Govt. compensation if a house is moved I don't know what to do next.  When on the phone with papa he didn't sound street wise to what was going on.  I was told the house is coming down this month and they are finished widening the road in the next town.  I remember papa went to an attorney and had legal papers signed for permission to marry his daughter 10 months ago.  We found out later that the papers had to be signed in the registrar’s office and the attorney should have known this.  It would seem the attorney should have known such a simple requirement and was paid for something that was not useful.  Unless anything changes I am considering not sending any more money till I visit   in February.   May I ask that even when such a law of compensation is on the books can officials be expected to  compensated in a seemingly corrupt Govt.?
Thanks for the info.

[Bear]

... in response to Re: Honey says..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 23, 2003

she learned it in her PolSci class in college.

Bear and Honey

[Esiang]

... in response to Honey says..., posted by Bear on Oct 21, 2003

that's right....
Peter shouldn't worry about the house of his parent's in law. A house that in fact he had never seen yet in person not even in a picture.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Honey says..., posted by Esiang on Oct 21, 2003

Yes ur right, sometimes we are dead right.  My decission to send some help money in good faith will either haunt me or bless me someday.  I will find out more in Feb when I visit.

[greg]

... in response to A sobering thought, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 20, 2003

until your wife is here with You before getting involved in her family affairs. The Guy gave you excellent advice.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Hi Pete, You need to wait, posted by greg on Oct 21, 2003

Ok but I sent some money off and I will have to live with it. Before I sent any money advice was No from most the guys and yes from the gals.  I thing a show of good faith in case they really are in a bad spot couldn't hurt.  But I get your point and it is sinking in my think skull.

[Nathan]

... in response to A sobering thought, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 20, 2003


  Just to note a sobering comparison, I spent well more than
the total of figures you mention just for a ring for my ex-
American woman wife. It was the worst possible investment I could possibly have ever made and in the long run, that
investment in the ring ending up costing me many millions of pesos further, not thousands.

  Nathan

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: A sobering thought, posted by Nathan on Oct 20, 2003

I hear ya Nathan,

Not only do I hear of the expensive rings, but the lavish weddings with cakes as big as a car.  I have been invited to many of them, they cost thousands.  Most ended in divorce after 3 to 7 years.  Your right but I am not complaining just don't want to make sure the money is going in the right place to get the job done.  If contractors are anything like they are here Dad is in trouble.  If the vendors or contractors find out a Kano is helping build the house with Kano money the house may go through the roof LOL

[Michael B]

... in response to A sobering thought, posted by Peter Lee on Oct 20, 2003

[This message has been edited by Michael B]

You either trust her or you don't. I wouldn't have married her if I didn't trust her. You married her...what does that say?....I say that it says you send her the money rather than have her family struggle and risk losing their land.  

Now, about receipts for the vendors and contractors being paid, I WOULD be concerned about that. But more in the manner "Not that I don't trust YOU, I just want to make sure there are no problems with a materials supplier filing a lien against the place or something like that."....A long time ago a very wise old man told me "Son, theys two kinds o men, theys overalls men and theys SUIT men, an any time they do biznez togeter, you can bet that the overall man gets a F'in"....I don't think she nor her father will take it as an insult that they are the 'overalls men' in transactions with professional money lenders and contractors and that you're just wanting the receipts to protect them from the 'suit men'. Take that 20% loan shark, for instance, what are HIS goals? In the US in the 30's there were bankers who purposely lent farmers more than they knew they could pay back (but less than their land was worth), PLANNING from the begenning to foreclose and basicly, leagly steal the land---that's why Woodie Guthrie wrote "Some men rob you with a six gun, some men rob you with a fountain pen." It's also why Pretty Boy Floyd always stole the mortgage papers from the banks as well as the cash. (Sorry for the Okie trivia, I got carried away, but what ARE the money lender's goals?)