feed them fish or teach them how to fish

[Peter Lee]

You know what comes to mind that I have not heard anyone talk about.  The story of not giving someone fish but teaching that someone how to fish so you won’t have to feed them anymore, they will feed themselves.
Even just sending money every now and then or a set amount each month is feeding them fish.
If you help them set up a suri, suri store or set them up with tools to make money it is teaching them how to fish.  
My wife’s first request was have me front her with some kind of business so she could be making money while she waits for my return.  We talked about a busy suri, suri store in Cebu she would like to run.  She says she could sleep there and when I came I could sleep there and save the money on hotels and house rental.  At the same time make a profit selling items in the store.  I declined the offer coz Ray and the others convinced me that the papers will come within 6 months to get her to the US.   But her mind is going and wants to work.  When I was 20 I didn’t think like that so she is in a way ahead of me on that.  I almost said yes to piglets that cost 1000 peso each and after 4 months of feeding them sell for a profit.  
What I am suggesting is, instead of just giving them money I would go to the market and help buy another cow or pigs so they can make a profit raising or breeding.  
I really don’t like the idea of just sending money.  Now maybe some of you have better ideas than suri, suri stores, cows and piglets.  I sure would like to hear other ideas that relatives could be using to make a profit.  
I am sure I am not the only one who has thought about this.  If it fails they still have the money or cow.   It would keep everyone busy, save their self esteem and maybe make a small profit.  

[Ray]

... in response to feed them  fish or teach them how to fis..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

Peter,

If you teach them to fish, then you'll have to buy them a boat to fish in :-)

I wouldn't invest in any business venture over there that costs more than $100 to start up.

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: feed them  fish or teach them how to..., posted by Ray on Oct 10, 2003

Ok Ray I can agree with the $100 limit.   I could fudge a little with the S100 though in this case.  A cow is about $300 and is used to breed.  Profit is from the calf less the feed and meds to keep it healthy.  Now piglets are in the budget at $20 per pig.   Five of em would make a bit of a profit after feeding and meds.   Not too many Filipinas have parents who are total farmers and I could take advantage of that.  The question is will they reinvest after they sell the pigs or ask me for the investment again and again???   It might be worth a try, if they reinvest some of the profit to buy more pigs and do it again then that’s a win situation.   If they ask for a reinvestment, that’s not a good sign.   But by then I have doubled my aid to them.  My $100 has stretched to the profit of the pigs plus my $100 help.   The cow however does not get sold; it just eats grass and makes calves.   That sounds like more of a solid investment.  So if I were to send them $300 as a gift to help out, if I had them buy a cow they would be making a future profit.   If they sold the cow at a later time they would get the $300 plus any profit of a calf being born.   It sounds like a win, win situation for the giver.   It also shows what kind of parents we are dealing with.  If they are sincere they will not sell the cow and reinvest in the piglets.  If they do that it gives you incentives to give more later.    
It is amazing how little I know about Maricel’s parents.  The whole time I was concentrating on her and what she was all about.  My thoughts were concentrated on her; she would be the one that I would spend the rest of my life with.  Eight months and that trip around part of the Visayas and Palawan on a motorbike did the trick.  It is hard to hide what you really are under those circumstances.   But although I had a rough idea of what her parents were all about I never got into much detail about them.  

I would have visited her parents like most of you but have done.   But because I was advised it was not safe I didn’t go.
So now I learn new things every time we chat or talk on the phone.   Now that we are married she is more open about her family.  I knew her Dad owns 2 hectares of land but now I know it is in on the mountain.  A sheer drop could kill a caribou.     She said that when it rains it is so muddy she can’t bring him lunch.    I am thinking that kind of land is cheaper than flat land.   They sound very poor but when you own land and farm you always have enough to eat.  It would be curious to know how Dad is going to pay off that 20% interest on the 60000 peso he will borrow.   I plan to go there in February and see for myself how bad things are.    

[Dave H]

... in response to feed them  fish or teach them how to fis..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

Hi Peter,

We talked a lot about that in the past. Here's a few twists:

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.  Teach a man to fish, and he will sit in the boat and drink beer all day.”—OldFox

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.  Teach a man to fish; and you will not have to listen to his incessant whining about how hungry he is.”—Author unknown

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.  Teach a man to fish; and you can sell him fishing equipment.”—Author unknown

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.  Teach a man to use the Net and he won't bother you for weeks.”—Author unknown

“Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.  Unless he doesn't like sushi—then you also have to teach him to cook.”—Auren Hoffman, Herald Philosopher

“Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today.  Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime.  Teach a man to sell fish and he eats steak.”—Author unknown

Dave H.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Just Eat The Fish Yourself! ))), posted by Dave H on Oct 9, 2003

The last one was the best LOL

[Bear]

... in response to feed them  fish or teach them how to fis..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

Generally you won't have a problem but I know several guys who poored a fortune down dry holes doing this.  

I say only help when they have an idea and present you with a business plan, meaning they ask you.  Then and only then do you give it too them knowing you'll never see a penny of it again.  Give it to them unrequested and it will be expected from that point on and it will be wasted and unappreciated.

A very good friend of ours started sending $500/mo. home to help her ailing mother.  The whole family moved in with her and took every penny she sent and warned her that if she reduced the amount or stopped it would 1st come out of what they gave her mother of it.  This Filipina at this point barely maked $800/mo. and lived in poverty while her family back home lives in luxury.  She had to get a second job.  None of her family works although they all say they are going to school, several have been arrested for drinking, gambling and fighting, drugs, etc., out-of-wedlock babies, you name it.  I watched this girl cry for hours because she didn't know how to end what she had started without making her mother suffer.  Her mother thinks everyone is so good to her and the daughter sending the money home is blacksheep of the family and really doesn't care about her.

I have a British friend who manages the International Hotel here in Houston.  He bought farmland, pig farm, plantations, all variety of maney making schemes to help his wife's family (thinking it would be part of his retirement) only to have her divorce him and keep it.  It was in her name.  The only poetic justice was that her family had wasted or destroyed every piece of it and she ended up with nothing but debts they built up.  Her family who no longer could count on her (ex)husbands generosity got real mad at her over it (isn't it a shame?).  Unbelieveably he married another Filipina and was well on the road to same place with her.  Guess some people never learn.

Of the 50 or so Filipinos my wife and I associate with only 2 that we are aware of send money home.  One Filipino who works here sends to his wife that he hasn't gotten her immigrated here yet, another who's son is married to a Filipina who has to have dialysis weekly (abt $2000/mo.).  Several tell us that they have helped in specific situations and help family memebers go to college but not one sends money monthly execept me(!!!!?).

Bear and Honey

[Kreeger]

... in response to feed them  fish or teach them how to fis..., posted by Peter Lee on Oct 9, 2003

Peter,

For the most part, my wife's family is very trustwothy and there really isn't a lazy one in the bunch (she is one of--I think--15 brothers and sisters). Although some of the siblings are either estranged, or far away from home with sporadic contact, there are a few that I consider my extended family because of how nice and accepting of me they are. So last year, on the trip that I took to visit her 6 months after we became engaged, I extended a gift to each of them... things like paying off the loan on her brother's boat, financing a wedding of her nephew (a different brother's son), helped her mother open a sari-sari store, had electicity hooked up to her mother's house, started a major renovation on the same house, and a few other small gifts. Overall, my experience has been great and it has help the family tremendously, but things will happen... as they always do... and you might need to come to the rescue again. I agree that giving them a means to support themselves is a good venture, even though I expect nothing in return but you must be ready for when boat motors explode or rats eat the rice for sale or a typhoon knocks the electric out. The family knows I am not rich, but of course they see me and my wife as saviors and my wife gets all the requests for financial help. She loves her family dearly but can't wait to get away from that situation.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to My experience..., posted by Kreeger on Oct 9, 2003

There is an old saying that I have always remembered and it has helped me mentally and spiritually through out my life..  

"THERE IS NEVER A GOOD DEED THAT GOES UNPUNISHED"  

If you understand that and you still give, you will never be disappointed.  

When we were in Australia as refugees after the war in the refugee camps there was no one to help us.

When I was put in an orphanage coz there was no one who accepted kids when looking for rental rooms to get out of the refugee camps, there was no one who helped.

When we wanted to buy a house in Australia and had no money for a down payment there was no one to help.

Have you waited in line for 4 hours to go to the bathroom?

Life is hard, it made us strong, I would not exchange that experience or memories for anything.  
When I look back it was some of the most challenging and life experience times in our lives.  
We were not in danger, we had our health, and for someone to come in and give us money without earning it would have been a lose.

[Esiang]

... in response to My experience..., posted by Kreeger on Oct 9, 2003

Wow financing a wedding for the nephew...
it seems to me it's a lot hope it was just in a civil wedding....

[Kreeger]

... in response to Re: My experience..., posted by Esiang on Oct 10, 2003

The wedding only cost P25,000 if you can believe it. It was a small wedding, though not a civil one. They are simple people with simple needs and I am impressed by that.