Cinderella and the glass slipper

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Re: Well..., posted by Esiang on Mar 28, 2003

I will talk to her Sunday her time.

She is leaving for Cebu this weekend.

She was supposed to stay with her Mom till I arrived in June.  

Now she is worried coz to communicate with me it is a 2 hour ride to the email café.  

She is going to great lengths to maintain our relationship it would have been easier to just let me go and keep the money

I suspect her trying to help her Mom with a small business

I don't think she wants me to know that her Dad is struggling and just getting by.

This would explain that previously she wanted a civil wedding and asked if the wedding money could be used for a small business for her and her mom.   She was willing to give up a church wedding for this so called little business.  

I am starting to understand some of her past actions.

I remember having her ask me to buy her mom a gold necklace that she wanted to give her all her life.  I did this as at the time it seemed a way to show her mom my commitment by investing in the family.  I was thinking then that that necklace could be turned into emergency money if some one gets sick or help them indirectly without admitting how poor they are.

Sure my mistake was I was doing things to soon.

But, I did more with those 20 days than I did in 20 years back home.  

I will not demand that she send me back money
It was her idea
She has to do it on her own without threats

Sunday is just a day away let’s see what happens

Only I know the experience I have had with her in those 20 days
She was always trying to save me money
She still didn’t have anything from me when I left except a cell phone which we used now a lot.
But when it came to her Mom she would want to do whatever she could for her and there was no talk of saving money when it came to her mom.  

The puzzle is slowly unfolding it seems like loyalty to Mom and not telling Mom what she is up too.  
I have to say that her young mind sure screwed things up for her.   Had she been older she would have found other ways to accomplish her goals.  

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Well..., posted by Peter Lee on Mar 28, 2003

Peter,

Are you ready to support her family for the rest of your life?

Are you willing to accept the fact that she will probably be sending money home behind your back if you don't cooperate readily?

In her mind, it may be a lot simpler to sneak around behind your back than to risk an open confrontation with you. It is very likely that she will always feel that she should be helping her family, whether you agree or not, and whether you think you can afford it or not.

Just some things that you should accept and get used to now, IMHO.

Also, you seem very quick to make excuses for her behavior. My prediction is that you will marry her when you return to the Philippines, regardless. I think your mind is already made up. If I am right, then I wish you both a lifetime of happiness together.

Ray

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Congratulations in advance!, posted by Ray on Mar 28, 2003

You are right about the excuses.

When I get to the PI I will not marry

If I am still marriage minded I may do what someone suggested and do the Fiancé Visa instead.

That will give me more time with her without getting married in June.

What I need to understand is how a "good girl" would be motivated to do what she did.

Excuses or not there had to be a reason.

I remember when I was in New York 14 years old just coming out of Australia.  I had my first job as a newspaper boy; I ended making more money than my dad.  I had 5 routes and one route was big enough to keep one boy busy.  I worked hard, I didn't keep the money for myself it went for things we needed food and clothing.

Some of the money I earned went to my mom for kitchen appliances; she had every device for a kitchen known at the time.  She didn't tell me to buy it; it was something from inside that I wanted to do.  We were always poor and it kept us closer together.  

I may be wrong but it is worth finding out.  Remember, I have time and emotion invested in this family.  There is no guarantee that the next one won't do the same thing or worse.  

I suspect that she wanted to help her mom, yes behind my back.  She was willing to give up a church wedding for a civil wedding and wanted to use the money to buy a small business.  So I think you are right the pattern is there.  
I am not sure about this yet coz I will not talk to her till tonight but it may be that she doesn't want me to know just how poor they are.  So helping behind my back was her way of dealing with it.  Excuses yes but I need to know if she is just evil or wanting to help her family in secret.

Her dad owns 2 hectares of land in Mindanao, grows rice, mangoes, papayas, coconuts.  It sounds like he must be struggling keeping 2 daughters in school and one up to the time she just got married.  I may be wrong but it sounds like a struggle.  

Are you ready to support her family for the rest of your life?
Yes!  Most guys married to Filipinas send money back to the PI.  I don't believe in sending a set amount per month but some from time to time.  Her idea of creating a small business is a good one if it can make another income.  

Are you willing to accept the fact that she will probably be sending money home behind your back if you don't cooperate readily?
I will sooner or later in my own way take charge.  If she wants to send more money home than I am willing to send she can earn it.  The behind the back thing if not cleared up satisfactory will stop us from getting married.  She either has learned her lesson now or it will get worse.  My job is to see which one.  Getting closer and building trust should let her be more open so she will not need to go behind my back.  If she knows that I know that her family is very poor there will be nothing to hide.  

My theory is that she wants to come into this relationship showing me that she is independent.  Marriage doesn’t answer her need to help her mom as what she wanted to do if  she started to work.  I am not sure yet how to handle this the best way if what I suspect  is true.  

By writing this forum and getting different ideas it has helped me think about how to deal with this situation better.  I need to know how far off the main stream I am when I finally make my decision.  I have learned a lot with everyone sharing their knowledge and experiences with me so thanks  

[Ray]

... in response to Re: Congratulations in advance!, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 29, 2003

Peter,

I think that would be a smart move, to junk the wedding plans for next trip. But are you sure that you can stand to just walk around the mall holding hands all day? LOL!

What do you mean when you say “Marriage doesn’t answer her need to help her mom as what she wanted to do if she started to work”? Of course it does! Marriage to an American and a chance to go overseas and earn the big bucks is a sure thing compared to some job “possibilities” she may have in her dreams. Seven bucks an hour working at Taco Bell IS big bucks!

Because she was sneaking around saving up money to help her family doesn’t mean that she is an evil person. I’m sure that you are beginning to realize the importance of family ties in the Philippines and the tradition of sharing with other family members. If she only wanted to help her mother, then that’s noble of her, but keep in mind that helping family is not limited to mom and dad. Every time a brother, sister, cousin, aunt, uncle, or whoever has financial problems, they will at least “think” of her. Even if they don’t ask her directly, they may go to mom because they will know she has a pipeline to her daughter’s money. Don’t expect her to feel more loyalty to you over that to her family based on 20 days of holding hands; It may take many years.

A little sneaking around may be tolerable to you or some other guys, but the outright dishonesty about tuition costs is what should bother you. Self-sacrifice in order to save a few bucks to give to mom is one thing, but lying in order to milk you for more money is a serious character flaw. Like I said before, never expect a person’s character to change significantly over time. Stop looking for a reason for her actions and concentrate instead on the behavior itself. There will ALWAYS be a reason to lie and cheat for those looking for one. It’s hard for a leopard to change its spots.

I agree that starting a business for the family can be a good idea, but it can also be a disaster and turn into a bottomless money pit that will never turn a profit. I’m sure you realize that most new businesses fail for one reason or another. BE VERY CAREFUL!

Ray

[Jay]

... in response to Cinderella and the glass slipper, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 26, 2003

[This message has been edited by Jay]

Hi Peter,

Here is my take after reading this. I agree with Mita that she never really gave you an explanation and you were almost filling in the blanks for her by suggesting the Aunt. She said she inflated the price x 10 to show you what a good wife she would be by surprising you with the extra? LMAO!! Typical Filipina backpeddling BS that they say when caught in a lie. Make it look like whatever wrong she did that she did it for you two. This stuff about killing herself and saying okay byeeee? More typical Filipina tactics when arguing. Make you all mushy and capitulate by saying that. These are old tactics, used by many. She say's she still has, what, P15,000 left? She's going to send it to you Western Union? I'll believe that when I see it.

I'm not of the school of thought that a leopard can't change it's spot's. I know I did over the years. She could get here and see just how hard this money is to come by, and then understand. She hasn't a clue yet about how hard it is. It's possible.

I was originaly under the impression that you had met only online. Now I see you have been there and met in person. So you know her. If you think she is a good person, then go with that. However, don't be surprised if it all blows up in your face. Let's see if she sends the money first. That will give you an indication of her truthfulness. I just hope she doesn't have a Pinoy boyfriend getting that money. I've seen that all too often.

Take the opinions offered for what they are. Free advice from folk's that mean well. Completely unbiased. In the end it's your decision. I say combine the total of your head and your gut instinct and see what you come up with.. Also, remember, you SHOULDN'T have to put up with this kind of nonsense.

Do what you feel is best and know I wish you well, Sir.

Take Care,
Jay

[Bear]

... in response to Cinderella and the glass slipper, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 26, 2003

She didn't admit it or apologize.  Honestly, you can never trust her and it will hang over you ever time you need a dependable helpmate when the crunch is on.  

"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".  Not one thing she said was to restore confidance but rather to play on your fear of loneliness.  Several guys have already mentioned "quality" ladies that would make you happier than you ever expected.  This "thing" only intends to use you.  End it with prejustice!  I'd tell her school master.

Don't hurt yourself dude.  No reason.  By time you feel as if you could trust her again you would have been able to married and have kids.

Sorry to be so blunt.

Bear and Honey

[jon]

... in response to Cinderella and the glass slipper, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 26, 2003

...fast.  The foot doesn't fit, and it stinks.

Sorry,

Jon

[lswote]

... in response to Cinderella and the glass slipper, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 26, 2003

Making good on the truth might be good for children to their parents, but giving another adult leeway on a lie, especially to an adult you don't know very well and who you should be in a period of building trust with, is not a good thing.  I went through something similar several years ago and the bottom line is that when someone lies to you in a pinch they will continue to lie to you in a pinch.

I have had some sympathy for your situation, certainly the abuse you have taken from certain members of this board regarding your age differences, but I now feel you seem to be a lamb determined to get slaughtered.  The age difference is a huge, though not impossible problem, but when you have someone so young lying to you, I give your chances in this relationship 0 out of 100.

I understand the loneliness of the single life, I certainly felt it, but being with a person who lies and in all probability will take advantage of you in other ways will make you feel even more alone.  I don't have any easy answers for you, but there are NO CHANCES this relationship will survive healthily and you need to terminate it now and find somebody else.

[Ray]

... in response to A lie is a lie, posted by lswote on Mar 26, 2003

You're right.

Lying is a character flaw that most likely will not go away over time. He should learn to deal with it now because it is sure to continue.

Ray

[Jeff S]

... in response to Cinderella and the glass slipper, posted by Peter Lee on Mar 26, 2003

... many of your responses to people's suggestions seem to demonstrate a pervasive fear of getting screwed. While that may be fine while playing the field and dating young women, it seems to me, by the time you've decided that you've found "the one" that fear should have been resolved. Certainly by the time you're engaged. Just my 2 cents.

- Jeff

[Peter Lee]

... in response to You know, Peter..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 26, 2003

Hi Jeff,

This was not the case here.  We got engaged to show total commitment to each other.  A promise to not pursue anyone else.  So the engagement had a different meaning to us.  It made our email chats and phone calls intensive and deeper.  The fear will always be there when you have had experience in life.  You see more breakups than makeup’s.  It was a promise to each other after 20 days of courtship.  I would agree with you in a normal relationship when you date someone for a year or two.  But this 9000 mile thing has something to do with it LOL.  Under these circumstances you would agree that suspicion is like chicken soup, it can't hurt.  It is good to hear from all kinds of comments and it let me know how off the mainstream I am.  

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: You know, Peter..., posted by Peter Lee on Mar 26, 2003

Of course that's why you get engaged. There's no different meaning to engagement for anyone else. What I said was that if you don't trust her 100% it doesn't make any sense to make a total committment in the first place. Just beacuse she's 5000 miles away doesn't mean it's any different than any other girl. Recognize that it's YOU that's arbitrarily saying, "I only have 20 days to make a decision." That sure sounds like a one way ticket to failure to me.

- Jeff

[Peter Lee]

... in response to You misunderstood my post..., posted by Jeff S on Mar 27, 2003

Hi Jeff
I hope you didn’t misunderstand me, I will try to add a little and clarify thanks.

I had a choice of leaving just as bf or as fiancé.  I was totally committed at the time.  I trusted her 100% then; she tried to save me money while I was there by taking jeepneys instead of a taxi.  If I did want to buy her a bathing suit so she could use the hotel's swimming pool she chose the cheapest one again to save me money.  It was here idea to get me a cheap house rental rather than the expensive hotel I was in.  That saved me thousands of peso alone.  As I have written to others the whole thing has me stumped.  I know if this was just an email relationship I would never send any money in the first place.  Also in that case it would be easy to just let her go and chat with another one.  But I courted her for 20 days, watched her slave for her Aunt Day in and day out.  We became sweethearts, it was an emotional affair. Good common sense stopped me from marrying her while I was there.   Many have done that, I chose to go back home and think with the big head.  I wrote this forum then and it helped me see the way better.  Until this incident everything was going great.  Although I have all the paper work for a fiancé visa I have not processed any yet.  This forum's advice was to wait and slow down, I am doing that and it was good advice.  

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: You misunderstood my post..., posted by Peter Lee on Mar 28, 2003

.. and yes, I did misunderstand your situation a bit. Best wishes in this turning out for the best for both of you.

- Jeff

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: You misunderstood my post..., posted by Peter Lee on Mar 28, 2003

[This message has been edited by Jeff S]

This message was deleted