Confused in Daytona

[Peter Lee]

Confused in Daytona
Come on guys, this “me” being in to much of a hurry is a bunch of crap!  I have read others in the past complain about how long it takes to get the gale over here.   Finally it’s congratulations she has her passport and visa, celebration time.  You all sound like it’s going to happen over night.  Plenty of time to polish the car once you got it in the garage.  That is if you know it is the right car for you.   The waiting time is so long I would probably go over there at least one more time and be there for the interview before she is approved due to your advice.  All the while the clock is ticking on the time that the INS will look at the papers. All this time if a red flag comes up I can walk away some-what the wiser.  If I was in a real hurry I would have married her right then and there.  All that I was missing was the NSO birth-certificate, and the 10 day waiting time at the city hall which could be sped up I was told...
1.   Evidence of valid relationship with the fiancé [e].  What ever that is ??  [help me on that one]
and I had everything else.  We were engaged and had a statement that we wanted to get married and committed to each other I thought would be enough I don’t know.    I am guessing but I think it might have been looking for letters and e mail history of a relationship; this was not an interview just for capacity to marry right?  What do you think?

I was in the US Consulate in Cebu.   Hear is what they gave me:

Under Philippine laws a foreign national marrying Philippine citizen must first obtain a Legal Capacity to Contract Marriage, from their respective consular office before a marriage license Is issued to the parties.   The legal capacity can be obtained either at the American Embassy in Manila or the American Consular Agency in Cebu [formerly the American Consulate].  The following are the requirements for the issuance of this document.

[A] American fiancé:

1.   U.S. Passport or birth certificate
2.   Proof of termination of prior marriage, if there is any.
3.   Permission from the appropriate unit command, if active in military duty.

Philippine fiancée:

2.   Photo ID / Student ID / Work ID [Name and photo must be shown]
3.   Birth Certificate.  If between the age of 18 and 20, a notarized written consent from the parents should also be submitted and a birth certificate from NSO
4.   Proof of termination of prior marriage, if there is any.
5.   Birth certificates of children, if applicable from NSO
6.   Evidence of valid relationship with the fiancé [e].

Both parties must come for the interview.  Applications are accepted only between 8.00 a.m. and 11:00 a.m.  The agency is open from Monday thru Friday except on holidays.  

But I kept it cool and came back a single man to ask you all for advice.  Some of you were like you throwing rotten tomatoes at me yelling “Boo!”  

So seriously I need some help on what to do.

If I pursue the fiancé visa and process the paper work which I have now all neat time limited notarized permission to marry passport notarized copies.,  The uncertainty is that I do not have a history of e mail to show.   The question on Form I-129F item 19.

19.   Your fiancé[e] has met and seen you  checked box   [yes]

Describe the circumstances under which you met.   If you have not personally met each other, explain how the relationship was established, and explain in detail any reasons you may have for requesting that the requirements that you hand your fiancé[e] must have met should not apply to you.

I was told to say:
We corresponded for 8 months then met in person on 01 12 03 in Cebu
City Philippines.

What I want to say:
We met in person on Jan 12th  03  fell in love courted for 20 days  were engaged before leaving on Feb 1st  03 in Cebu City.  We are currently corresponding using e mail and phone cards.  We plan to meet again in July 03

Do you see any problems with this?

That way in the future interview the whole truth and only the truth is said.  

[Is there a way phone cards can be used to verify calls to your fiancé for proof of correspondence?]

Is it wiser to wait a few months before I process the paper work to the INS while I build up an e mail base?  If so how long?  One month two?  I am concerned that many notarized papers may expire.  Or will it not matter so I can process the paper work right away?

The way the interview goes it seems at the end of the year there will be tons of e mail to show.   But if the interviewer is looking for time before the paper work was processed from the date applied I am out in the cold.   What say you?

Now the gale [my sweetheart the mother of my future children or the one that is going to show me hell LOL] is graduating in around May.   She can get a job on a cruise line with a year contract.   The pay is good and it will be exciting for her to want to work after graduation.   So if I pursue the fiancé visa I have to tell her to get a local job and wait, I will visit her again in July.   I can’t see another 30 days of holding hands in the Mall it would kill me LOL.   What say you?

Da other option is to go back in July with a 6 month e mail base and marry her in the Philippines.   Go back home after 21 days process the paper work for espousal visa.   All the notarized papers will have been expired and have to be redone.   This by reading your site will be twice as long to wait for her to come over.   I could still visit her every 6 months LOL while I am waiting.   She could get her cruise line job which by the way is limited to the waters of the Philippines.   And I will be able to do more than hold hands in the Mall LOL for crying out load.    Oh decisions, decisions
All this and the fact that I am not a spring chicken.  Time as we get older is more valuable.   The reason I asked for your advice on this is you may know more on what will happen with the waiting time for fiancé visa verses espousal visas with this war going on.   I kinda like you all clowning around as long as I get the straight scoop and some help.  My 7th Dan Black Belt and Gracie Jiu Jitsu can’t help me with this one.   Hope you guys got some ideas cause when I asked the fiancé last night on the chat what to do after 2 hours of stressful thinking she just wanted to change the subject and say whatever I decide she will know is best.   HELP!

[Frank2002]

... in response to Confused in Daytona, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 8, 2003

"when I asked the fiancé last night on the chat what to do after 2 hours of stressful thinking she just wanted to change the subject and say whatever I decide she will know is best. HELP!"

It's up to you honey:-))))))))

I had pen pals and also met filipina's in the past that always agreed to what I said no matter how silly it was.  That's a bad sign peter:-)))))))) Peter what is she graduating with? Maybe being on a cruise ship with all those guys might be no good hahhahhahha I am just teasing you Peter. Just take it slow and think with the right head.
How long you been praticing bjj? To those of you why don't know what BJJ is , it is  not a bad thing, it stands for Brazilian Jiu-jitsu. Maybe we can even train in bjj in Cebu Peter, and  if you get tired of holding your gf hand in the mall you can roll with me on the ground hahhahha Just trying to make you smile Peter. I want to go and train with top team some day in brazil for a holiday. Maybe this summer. An off beat question peter have you seen any of sperries tapes? Thier great stuff. Who do you train bjjj with in FL Carlson Gracie? Lsst BJJ question for you Peter is thier any places to roll in Cebu? I want to do some training thier. Maybe a Judo school right? As a side joke between bjj guys Peter have you gotten your gf to practice the triangle choke on you yet:-)))))))) It is a good move for a young lady to know right? Well in case of rape I guesss. Oh before I go is thier more houses to rent for that cheap thier like you rented? Would love to rent it for that cheap, let me know if it is still open  to rent. Got to go Peter. wish you all the best my friend.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Confused in Daytona, posted by Frank2002 on Feb 9, 2003

Say Frank, I got so tired of “it’s up to you”.   And no planning for anything, just do it and see what happens.   If she really likes me she don’t want to upset me or loose me so its “what ever you say must be the best decision.”  I didn’t see it as a red flag.
You know the INS got the way to make it go slow so no choice there right?   Sometimes I got trouble finding the little head with the big head but then I’m almost 60 LOL
Tae Kwon Do 45 years and bjj 14 years got a purple belt in bjj now.   Train with Edson Diniz met him in a tournament I got a gold medal and he coached me in the open division I think I was the oldest guy there competing.    Mui Thai is all I seen in Cebu but I wasn’t looking that hard, had other things on my mind at the time hehehe.    Hey I’ll roll with ya that will make me smile LOL.  You don’t need to go to Brazil for good lessons they are plenty good here.   I have a room full of tapes Sperry is not the ones I look at.   I didn’t show my gf any bjj yet women can get mean enough without it, but your right if it is taught right it can be very affective for the women.   Dats why I trained all these years so I could defend against the women.    LOL.   The house to rent was in Peacevillage Cacao Pardo in Cebu City.   The land-lord and his wife will tell you all the mistakes the other American made with their gf if you have time at night.   There were girl dorms all around me and a place to chat coz he had a little store to buy sodas and an excuse to hang around.   A bit far from the city but that was good, the air was breathable.  I swear I tripped on the same rock every day going to the highway and nobody ever moved it.    Another thing I couldn’t figure out why no roof leaked, mine leak at home.  
.  

[Dave H]

... in response to Confused in Daytona, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 8, 2003

Hi Peter,

If I was sure, I would marry in the Philippines and bring her on a K-3 Visa. I would give her a very nice wedding in her home church in front of family and friends. I would spend time together as husband and wife on a romantic honeymoon. Then I would return home and send in the Visa paperwork.

My story: I had gone to the Philippines with the intent of marrying on my second trip, if all worked out. It did and we became engaged. Due to the fact that I had been previously married in the Catholic Church (divorced), couldn't return for at least 8 months, and the long processing times for the spousal visa at the time (14+ months), we decided to take the fiancee route (3-6 months). Like most Filipinas my wife had always dreamed of a nice Catholic Filipino wedding at her church, in front of her relatives and friends. Because she loves me, she accepted our situation and never complains. We married in a very small civil service in the US after she arrived on a Fiancee Visa. She has returned twice (there now) to attend her sisters' Catholic weddings. Seeing the joy in her eyes in the pictures and video and hearing her talk about the weddings brings tears to my eyes, knowing that I could not give her that. Sometimes Filipinas tell her that since she didn't marry in the Catholic Church, she is not really married. I know it upsets and hurts her. But she keeps it too herself and tells me that she loves me and that it doesn't matter to her. One day I hope to be able to give her the wedding she deserves, in her Catholic Church in the Philippines, with her family, friends, and neighbors present.

"It's up to you!" If she is like most Filipinas...that means "I would like to be married in front of my family and friends at my church in the Philippines, but I will let you decide." Peter, ask your fiancee what her dream wedding would be like...hypothetically...if she could choose. Probably the same as my wife's answer. The family will be happy and proud to be a part of the wedding and to know it is legit. She will be leaving her family and home to join you, which is a much bigger sacrifice than we make. Good Luck!

Dave H.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to What would I do? , posted by Dave H on Feb 9, 2003

In Reply to: Confused in Daytona posted by Peter Lee on 02/08/2003:
Hi Peter,
If I was sure, I would marry in the Philippines and bring her on a K-3 Visa. I would give her a very nice wedding in her home church in front of family and friends. I would spend time together as husband and wife on a romantic honeymoon. Then I would return home and send in the Visa paperwork.
My story: I had gone to the Philippines with the intent of marrying on my second trip, if all worked out. It did and we became engaged. Due to the fact that I had been previously married in the Catholic Church (divorced), couldn't return for at least 8 months, and the long processing times for the spousal visa at the time (14+ months), we decided to take the fiancee route (3-6 months). Like most Filipinas my wife had always dreamed of a nice Catholic Filipino wedding at her church, in front of her relatives and friends. Because she loves me, she accepted our situation and never complains. We married in a very small civil service in the US after she arrived on a Fiancee Visa. She has returned twice (there now) to attend her sisters' Catholic weddings. Seeing the joy in her eyes in the pictures and video and hearing her talk about the weddings brings tears to my eyes, knowing that I could not give her that. Sometimes Filipinas tell her that since she didn't marry in the Catholic Church, she is not really married. I know it upsets and hurts her. But she keeps it too herself and tells me that she loves me and that it doesn't matter to her. One day I hope to be able to give her the wedding she deserves, in her Catholic Church in the Philippines, with her family, friends, and neighbors present.
"It's up to you!" If she is like most Filipinas...that means "I would like to be married in front of my family and friends at my church in the Philippines, but I will let you decide." Peter, ask your fiancee what her dream wedding would be like...hypothetically...if she could choose. Probably the same as my wife's answer. The family will be happy and proud to be a part of the wedding and to know it is legit. She will be leaving her family and home to join you, which is a much bigger sacrifice than we make. Good Luck!
Dave H.

Wow Dave thanks,

You know I had the same feeling about it as you do but I didn’t want to think about it.  My fiancé has an older married sister who married two years ago.   I have not ask her yet about that marriage, now I will and I am getting closer to making a decision thanks to your letter and sharing your past experience.  Her Dad is about the same age as me and hasn’t seen me yet.   I have to question her to see if that would be a problem other wise it sounds like a dream come true marriage for her.   You are right though she will not tell me later how disappointed she will be later in life missing family for her wedding.   But I gotta tell ya my Mom wants to see my wedding here in a nice ceremony like my sister’s wedding.    It will not be the same for her as her family will not be present but after all she will spend more time in the future with my sister and Mom than with her family.  The cruise idea is also the same thinking as me.   There are so many cruises here in Florida, and reasonable priced too.    This is the stressful conversation I had with her a week ago, to marry in the Philippines and have a longer wait for her to come here or go the fiancé visa route which would be quicker but marry here in the Philippines.   I had already gone to much trouble to gain the trust of her parents so she could travel here by herself unmarried for the fiancé visa.  But now I am here, to sit back and think of what I am doing to talk to friends and share my decision making.   Like you indicated this is a one shot deal that only comes once for us.   I don’t want to blow it.   Her school is over in May her birthday is in June.   It would be a nice birthday and wedding and I would not have to marry a teenager LOL.  A cruise honeymoon would be less expensive there than here and I could tour the Islands with her.   Sounds good gives me time to think more get to know each other more build up an e mail bank of letters.   {I am told that you need them to show a legitimate marriage for her interview for the spousal visa}  Also I was thinking about the age difference in the eyes of the interviewer.  If we are already married it may be an easier way to go to be accepted.   I was told that for the espousal interview there are two interviews.   With the Texas INS frozen they may take the same time any way I don’t know about these things.   And if I have to go over there again and hold hands in the Mall for another 21 days I will feel I am in Jr. High again LOL.  Alas if I go this route all the hard work on certifications and notary will have expired and have to be done all over again.   Oh well !  I guess I have to study the K-3 visa process now, thanks.

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: What would I do? , posted by Peter Lee on Feb 9, 2003

Hi Peter,

Email me at Dhmltn@aol.com and I will share a little more personal info.

Dave H.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Re: What would I do? , posted by Dave H on Feb 9, 2003

I got your mail will reply asap thanks

[joemc]

... in response to Re: Re: What would I do? , posted by Dave H on Feb 9, 2003

Hey Dave,
     Can your brother "fester" email you also, reading your
     posts. you have me all broken up inside.  Ha, ha, ha
                                       
                                     joeMcFester

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: What would I do? , posted by joemc on Feb 9, 2003

N/T

[Dave H]

... in response to Confused in Daytona, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 8, 2003

[This message has been edited by Dave H]

Peter,

I do respect the fact that you are asking questions, listening and taking it all in! Most people seeking advice don't react that way here, so you are one of the very few. I know that you will weigh all of the advice, make up your own mind, and go with what is right for you. You have my sincere respect and wishes for happiness! It can be done! I hope to be congratulating you in the near future!

Dave H.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Congratulations!, posted by Dave H on Feb 8, 2003

Thanx but as you know i got a long way to go yet!

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Congratulations!, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 8, 2003

Hey Peter,

At least you're on the path! Best wishes!

Dave H.

[lswote]

... in response to Confused in Daytona, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 8, 2003

I just got married last night in Bogota to a woman I met in September and proposed to in October.  You are very correct that the waiting time before a K-1 visa is issued or you can get married in another country is long enough it gives you more time to get to know the person you are interested in.  And to boot you will probably run into a few stressful circumstances related to the process that will put the relationship to the test of whether it is something you want to proceed with.  Some of the people on this board just don't believe ANY relationship that doesn't have a couple years history can survive.  Many of them are younger men, who are at a different place in their lives.  It is my opinion that many younger men are more interested in shopping than buying.  I am of the opinion that when you find what you are looking for you take it and stop looking.

Go forward in your quest young man and don't let the naysayers disuade you.  Just be honest with yourself and your chosen and be open enough to see red flags and be willing to walk away if the red flags tip the scales to the point that the relationship is a mistake.

[Peter Lee]

... in response to Re: Confused in Daytona, posted by lswote on Feb 8, 2003

Thanx for the come back but i think they understand they just wana test me to see how serious i am about this pinay.  Let me ask you when you went to your interview how important was it to have prior history of e mail and letters showing before you acually met?  Good luck on the marriage.

[lswote]

... in response to Re: Re: Confused in Daytona, posted by Peter Lee on Feb 13, 2003

When I went to the embassy visit in Bogota they asked for the marriage license, my wife's birth certificate, my divorce certificatation, the I-130 form (alien residency form), a biographic data form for my wife, my passport and $96.  Nothing more.

For the next visit the only thing that is required from me is a notorized spousal support form, 3 years of tax returns and W-2s, and a letter from my employer.  As far as I know no letters, emails or photographs are necessary.  But this is for Colombia, I can't speak for your location.  Also, I am sending along all those things anyway with my wife just in case.