FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN

[Ray]

... in response to FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by tpdtom on Nov 29, 2002

Hi Tom,

As for the availability of foreign men, there just aren’t that many single Catholic guys around that have never been married. For the Filipina ladies who are attracted to western men, they often have to make that decision of whether or not to go against their religion when they get married. However, I have found that the Catholic Church in the Philippines can be much more willing to bend the rules than it is over here. Depending on the jurisdiction, a Catholic woman can often marry a non-Catholic or a divorced man quite easily with the blessing of the local bishop. If the divorced man was not originally married in the Catholic Church, then they are likely to overlook some of the technicalities that you would run into over here in the States.

I was a divorced Catholic when I married in the church in the Philippines. Because my first marriage was a civil one, we were able to get all the necessary permissions quite easily in the Philippines. I sent some papers over in advance, and her family was able to get everything smoothed over with the local church well in advance of the wedding. We were able to complete the interviews with the priest and the pre-cana seminar in one afternoon a couple of days before the ceremony. The monsignor that married us understood the logistical difficulties involved in the marriage between a Filipna and a foreigner, so he cut all kinds of corners for us. If we had wanted to be married over here in my parish church, it would have taken a MINIMUM of six months and we would have had to follow all the rules to the letter. You only have 90 days on a fiancée visa, so a church wedding here would have been virtually impossible.

A lot of guys will pressure the Filipina to come over on a fiancée visa and marry here, which usually means a civil ceremony. The motivation on his part is usually the shorter waiting time for a visa, along with less hassles and the lower cost of a simple civil ceremony. It seems that many of the ladies will go along with the man’s wishes so as not to stir up any ill feelings. In my case, we talked over all the options and then I let her decide which kind of wedding that she wanted. I am of the school that believes that a bride should have it her way on her wedding day. She had always dreamed of a nice church wedding in her hometown with all of her family and friends in attendance, so we did it over there. It cost me a few thousand more and was a lot of hassles, but I really enjoyed the wedding and reception. Most important, my bride and her family were very happy that we did it right.

Of the ladies that come over here and have a civil wedding, many of them will go back a year or two later for a big church wedding in the Phils. Maybe they figure that living in sin for a year or so is worth it? :-) I have also known many Filipinas who married American men outside the church and they still practice their religion over here. I think for a lot of Filipinas, the church’s rules are just not as important as we might expect. The letter of the law just doesn’t seem to always be as important to the Philippine church in general. Some Filipinas will just ignore the rules and continue to receive the sacraments anyway. Is that wrong? I won’t judge them because I was non-practicing myself for 33 years. I know a lot of those ladies and they are good Christian people; they just aren’t hung up on all the rules. And having a non-Catholic husband is just not that big of a deal with many of them.

Ray

[may10]

... in response to FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by tpdtom on Nov 29, 2002

It also in our belief to be understanding and forgiving.

If we were to take a very strict and closed-mind stand on the things that you said,  we, catholic filipinas, would also be bound to look at a man's past and his past  "relations"  (and I don't mean the platonic kind).  IF that were so,  I wonder what would happen to "relations"  people have outside of marriage.  Would that count as well for us to totally not fall in love with someone who's been into such?

Keeping celibate and saving oneself until marriage doesn't necessarily dictate the same for our partner.  If that was possible, then it is truly a blessing.  (No flames, pls....grin)

Simply said,  our religion is one that instill (among many others) looking beyond a person's past.

Hope you finally find that elusive and perfect woman.  *smile*

[outwest77]

... in response to Re: FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by may10 on Nov 29, 2002

Hope you stay, what a nice treat for the holidays having you back, its like going to thanksgiving dinner and seeing
a favorite family member, it makes our holidays much better.

[may10]

... in response to Welcome Back May, posted by outwest77 on Nov 30, 2002

what you said humbles me very much and for that I really want to say thanks.

Was just here lurking but still keeping up with what you guys were doing and saying  (errrrr....writing, i mean) *smile*

Just couldn't resist responding to tom and setting him straight.  *grin*

[Ray]

... in response to Re: FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by may10 on Nov 29, 2002

Where have you been anyway? ;-)

[may10]

... in response to Hi May!, posted by Ray on Nov 30, 2002

Was actually hanging out with you and JeffS, right?.....*grin*

[tpdtom]

... in response to Re: FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by may10 on Nov 29, 2002

hi mae...congrats on everything ! we miss your posts .

hmmmm...i didn't think you'd respond..lol ! well , i agree completely that we are supposed to be forgiving always . understanding even , but modernist progressives who don't stand with the magisterium want orthodox Catholics to look the other way at people ignoring the dogmas and canon law . i don't want to say who is happy about that !

sometimes we are very strict and closed minded where church teaching is concerned . again , you are 100% correct about forgiveness , but we have to resolve to try not to commit the sin again...lol ! the past of our partners should always be forgiven , usually it's a blessing not to know !

thanks for the good wishes . i hope i find that elusive woman too , don't think i'd be interested in anyone perfect though *smile*...tom

[may10]

... in response to Re: Re: FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by tpdtom on Nov 30, 2002

find that perfect woman FOR you.

You see,  anyone you truly love will be perfect for you even her flaws and imperfections because of that love and therefore in your eyes she is perfect as she is.  

Got you!!!  *grin*

[Jeff S]

... in response to Of course, you will!!!!, posted by may10 on Nov 30, 2002

And believe me, you can see those flaws quite clearly. They just don't matter - you learn to live with them, and they do not diminish the perfection.

Anyway tpdtom, like the Walker, I'm neither Catholic nor Christian, so my opinions are more speculation than anything else. I'm sure you'll find Filipinas who follow their religions piously and to the letter, and those who know little about it and just perform the cerimonies and obey their priests. I have 50 Mexicans working for me, all of whom are practicing Catholics but know very little about what it says in the Bible. I'm not saying this to belittle Catholocism or any of its followers, just to point out that there exists an infinite range in how closely any spiritual practice is followed by its practicioners - and I'm sure Filipina Catholics are no different. As Don suggested, it's very probable many do it to increase their chances of success. These days some of the rules (birth control for instance) seem more negotiable than absolute.

It sounds like it's important for you to have a religiously compatable mate. I'm sure you can find the kind of devoted followers of religion you're looking for - those unable to accept a divorced mate, just as you'll find a full range of thinking from pious secular on this and just about every other topic amongst Filipinas.

- Jeff S.

[may10]

... in response to Amen, May., posted by Jeff S on Nov 30, 2002

have been quiet for days now, too!!!....*smile*

[NW Jim]

... in response to FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by tpdtom on Nov 29, 2002

Tom, you will find that most men who look overseas for marriage have been previously married. Yourself and NateD (21) may be the exceptions to the rule.

Cherry Blossoms web site lists 17,481 women from the PI looking for love/marriage. The estimates are that less than 10% of women that sign up ever get married. The odds would be drastically lower if they limited themselves only to guys who had never been married.

As I'm sure you're aware the depth of religious conviction varies by individual. That's a good thing or we'd all be zealots ala Abu Sayef(sp?).

While there are those folks who truly believe that extensive writing to one lady is the best way to find your one and only, keep in mind that one guy here was receiving letters written by the the young ladies mother. There can be lots of layers of motivation on both sides.

Good luck.

[The Walker]

... in response to FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by tpdtom on Nov 29, 2002


Vicky married me, and she is a loyal Daughter of the Church. I am a divorced non-Christian. Her marriage was annulled for lack of fertility. My wife took off and divorced me from Nevada via mail.

Her priest in the Phils never turned a hair. We were not married in the church itself but in a family chapel. She was enjoined to ceaselessly try to convert me, but other than that there have been no problems. She attends mass and receives sacrament at our local church. I go with her about once a month. It means nothing to me and it makes her happy. Our stateside wedding was not Catholic so there was no problem there.

If the Church is going to stop marriages between divorced persons, or kicking people out of the church for doing so, they are going to lose a lot of their members in America. Aren't they anyway? Maybe that is the reason.

At any rate it is not a problem between us because we do not allow it to become a problem. I will not convert and I do not ask her to leave her Church. Every so often her conscious niggles at her and she makes a token attempt to convert me, I politely refuse, it is over for another six months or so.

If she doesn't care, and you don't care, and your local priest isn't making a fuss about it, why worry? Many Filipinas are legally married to their husbands who then abandon them. They cannot get a divorce or an annullment because they have children. So what are they to do? The Church in Rome puts them in an untenable position, so the local priests cut them some slack, probably with the approval of Rome. Better for Rome that they at least keep the women as members of the Church rather than lose them.

Don

[tpdtom]

... in response to Re: FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by The Walker on Nov 29, 2002

hey don....as i said in my post , i am a constant reader of this board so i knew of your situation as previously described here . in your case , with you as a non-Christian , this is all moot . vicky's marriage was anulled and you were free to marry in the Catholic church . by "in the church" i mean under the auspices of , by a priest in a recognized manner . not to digress , your stateside wedding doesn't exist as far as the church is concerned . as for your wedding in the chapel , you could have been married in a field as long as it was blessed by a priest .

i understand that non-Catholics , non-Christians probably more so, will be confused if not irritated at all this . it was asked in the spirit of orthodox observance which is deeply rooted in 2000 years of theology and is hard enough for a Catholic to be familiar with much less for me to be able to explain in the limited space here . i just wondered if someone who actually knew how practicing Catholic filipinas justified it if at all . The church has always forbidden marriage between divorced Christians without anullments , and the existence of children doesn't mean that the marriage was entered into with full Christian/Catholic intentions .

if the priest performing a marriage doesn't object , and all pre-marriage requirements are met , then i think it's safe to assume that all is in order . the church in rome hasn't changed it's position at all in hundreds of years . some priests follow rome to the letter , some don't , just as some lay people do and some don't . ultimately we all have to follow our own consciences .

don , i always enjoy your posts . when i posed this question i made a little bet with myself that you would be one of the first to respond . that's fine but i think you have a little axe togrind as evidenced by previous posts and positions . i have to remember not to be baited because when you come right down to it , so much of what we Christians believe is based on faith and strengthened by grace ....tom

[The Walker]

... in response to Re: Re: FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED MEN, posted by tpdtom on Nov 29, 2002


Sorry, didn't mean to sound rude. I was just rambling. I am often confused by sectarian Christian rules and regulations.

Technically, as a divorced man, I suppose Vicky should not have married me. I do know that her virginity was miraculously returned to her in the eyes of the church. And that confuses me as well.

Sorry again. Did not mean to offend, and I have no axe to grind. Just confused.

Don

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: FILIPINAS ACCEPTING DIVORCED..., posted by The Walker on Nov 30, 2002

... whether the 72 virgins granted to suicide bombers when they go to meet allah are recycled virgins or fresh ones? These are confusing issues indeed.

- Jeff S.