my take on it

[Febtember]

Well, this is not Feb, but her husband. It looks like her post did strike a nerve. Is it because the truth hurts?  Maybe, and maybe not. I usually don't post here since it seems like many words that are written are twisted around by others in order to attack them. So I truly expect that people here will twist my words, ignore what I was really trying to say,  and attack me also.  
   As for the comments about her wanting to come to america for a better life, her friends tried to talk her out of it since she would only be marrying a farmer, and would have a poor lifestyle.  They thought she should marry a doctor, or lawyer.  People in her neighborhood back home have nicer houses than what we live in here. But in the end, she felt called to be married, (and not be a nun) and did not care if she would live a poor life here. She wanted to marry a good Catholic man who lived the faith. Would your wife marry you if you were a penniless american living in the Philippines driving a tricycle?  My wife would, even if I was a coconut pilot.
   As for the generalization about filipinas wanting to be worldly, it is just meaning that they were not considering spiritual things first and foremost.  And why should we all not have that impression that they are worldly?  The first thing I hear about, is getting work authorization, and getting a job.  Feb does not want to ever again work outside the home, but prefers to be a loving housewife and mother. We both hate going to parties with lots of filipinas that are new to the US, since they spend so much time talking about how nice of house they got, their new car, how much they earn in their job, how much they are sending home to Phils, blah, blah, blah. It is really embarrassing, and we both get so sick of hearing it.  And these women attack her for not working too:  "Why should she not work??!!! She should get money and send it back home!!!! And you really need to have every thing money can buy!!!!!" etc., etc., is their attitude. And they also attack her, and look down on her for living in the countryside.  They act like they are the new upper class here, and we are dirt since we live in the country and have chickens and a goat in the back yard.  
    Why should one of you attack her for selling Hanes? So she is a hard working gal in Phils., and sent her niece thru college, why should that be something to look down upon?
    And finally, about the not marrying the divorced.  It is not at all about forgiveness of anothers sins.  We two people get married, and it is a true marriage, they are swearing an oath to God to never take another person for as long as they both shall live. (Don't you remember saying "until death due us part" at the wedding?) An oath to God is unbreakable, so how can we take another person that is already pledged to someone else?  Love or forgiveness has nothing to do with it.  If you are going to follow what our Faith says, then there is no question about the indissolvability of marriage.   Maybe you didn't have true marriage. That is your problem to get straightened out. But by not accepting a divorced or annulled person, then you don't have to worry about such problems.  And you don't have to worry about ex-wives, step-children, and many other such headaches.  If you don't want to follow God's teaching about divorce, that is your business. Everyone has to face the consequences of their own actions with God. I am not the judge, thank goodness.  I can state what our Faith teaches and what the Catholic Faith says objectively about such consequences. But in the end, God makes the subjective judgement on each one of us. You may be a good person, but that doesn't make you a good Catholic, no matter how we each feel about it.  Being a good Catholic means following the Faith.  If you don't follow ALL of the Faith, then you can't be Catholic.  It is that simple.  If you don't want to follow all of the Catholic Faith, but want to pick and chose, then go join another religion.  It is up to you, not me.  This is a free country.

[Mita]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

Oh please!  She said what she said.  We are Filipinos too and understand this "holier than thou" stance your wife took in that post.  She believes  what she believes but her generalizing about other Filipinas' intentions in marrying divorced men was plain and simple judgmental.
Oaths to God have been broken time and time again, even by nuns and priests who took the vows and had to leave for some reason or another.  You said " Being a good Catholic means following the Faith. If you don't follow ALL of the Faith, then you can't be Catholic. It is that simple." Doesn't our religion preach forgiveness?  What is confession and penance for? Why does the Catholic CHurch have marriage tribunals? We all strive to be good but are only human. Jesus came for sinners, all of us are sinners.  As a Catholic, I ask you to remember Barrabas.  That thief who was crucified with Jesus only had to utter "I believe" and he was promised heaven that same day.  If a marriage cannot be dissolved, please tell me why the Catholic church has annulments?  Does a marriage of 30 years, that produced 6 children all of a sudden disappear after annulment?  Annulment means it was never a marriage to begin with.
So much for religion, we should all learn to live with each other.  That's what starts wars in the world.

Whatever you and your wife choose to do is your business.  Work or not work, marry a single Catholic or divorced Protestant - it's all your business.  Other Filipinas here have opinions too but you don't see us sharing details about our lives or giving opinions that might hurt others feelings and get the flak for it and then ask our husbands to come to the rescue.
My opinion, if anyone is hurt - then they are too sensitive.

[Mita]

... in response to Re: my take on it, posted by Mita on Dec 7, 2002

Another thing - more American men replied to the offensive post than Filipinas.  For the record.

[NoNamePinay]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

Hi Greg,
Here's what Raquel's quote "I believe that the filipinas who married divorce man are only thinking about worldly things and a richer lifestyle, and don't want to think about the next life. I know personally several filipinas who were going to marry the wrong man, and I let them know that they were,and yet they went ahead and married them anyway because they just wanted to get to america.
You should look for a traditional catholic filipina who would not accept a divorced man.I would never accept a divorced man for my husband, and any good practicing catholic filipina never would either."

I wasn't going to comment about Raquel's opinion but since she generalize all Filipinas who are married to
divorced men and I'm one those Filipinas who happened to fell in love with and married a divorced man. She shouldn't generalize all of us "Filipinas married to divorced men" that we are only thinking about wordly things and richer lifestyle and don't want to think about next life... What is she supposed to mean of that? She don't know all the Filipinas quiet well to make such a judgement. Remember, not all Filipinas are Catholic. Did she mean that I married my divorced husband so that I could come here in the USA???
Well, My husband was the one who wrote to me first, my name was given to him by his friend who also married to my Filipina friend. He visited me three times within 2 years before we even decided to get married and YES we got married in the Philippines at the Catholic Church even he is not a Catholic and then my husband have lived with me for 4 months in the Philippines before I came over with him here in the States so I could say it's our destiny, we are destined to be husband and wife. (No offense meant to others especially to those fiancees who came here as fiancee there's nothing wrong with that) I am a Catholic and I knew that it's in the Catholic Faith or God's teaching not to marry a divorced person and you can call me unfaithful to God but I would rather be being married to a non-Catholic divorced man who I love with all my heart, and that He would also love me and treat me well than being married to a single man practicing Catholic who would hit or abuse me or have an extra mistress so hope God will understand and forgive me for marrying a divorced man.

How about marrying a person because she loves him and not because of He is divorced nor single Catholic?
Does she mean also all American Catholics women who got divorced and remarried to Divorced men are only thinking wordly things & richer lifestyle too?
OK now when it comes to Filipinas who got married to divorced men are only thinking wordly things and richer lifestyle. She shouldn't say all Filipinas married to divorced men are the same. Yeah, it may/could be true to "some" Filipinas and they are mostly the ones who got divorced & remarried twice or three times already here in the USA.
Ooops I better stop here now I've got more to say but I don't want to get flames nor hurt others feelings. I like reading Raquel's posts but I just can't stand generalizations.

Advance Happy Holiday to both of you!!!
Keep the Faith, [just like what Howard's say ]
NNP

[Carr]

... in response to Re: just a  thought of a Filipina marrie..., posted by NoNamePinay on Dec 7, 2002


I miss ya.

And I agree. My only difference here is that my hublet and I are both in the same religion.  But when we were dating, it didn't even cross our minds to ask what religion we are practicing. I believe true love has no boundaries.  If Chris is an atheist or an ignorant Protestant and divorced three times--I'd still marry him. Can't really lose that soulmate and how many are successful in finding theirs.

Anyway, I enjoy Feb's posts here too. I hope she'd come back. Been in your shoes once Feb, done that already and all I got is a dang ugly t-shirt that I sleep in all the time.

[greg]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

glad to hear from You. Thanks for the Xmas card, that was nice. Btw, I see Zeroooo wrong with what FeB said, she has the right to share her opinion without being Attacked. Any petty thing can Piss off these people. God Bless

[SJ]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

As usual, "raw nerves" are created when one person decides that their point of view is the "ONLY" correct one. It may be "your" truth, but not everyone elses.
   It was not an attack on her for selling Hanes or even being a working girl. I brought it up to refresh the fact that she went from one extreme of working and about to become a nun, to, fatefully recieving a penpal magazine, but wait, she's planning to become a nun, but wait again, "the guy no. 528 captures my heart". Are there no good devout unmarried catholic farmers in the Phils?  
   Many, many people "try" to talk her into someone of better occupation , income and looks. Did she listen? So why should she expect others in the same position to heed her words. Because she's a "true" catholic and they are not? because her motives are pure and theirs can not be?   For my wife and myself these are not painful truths.
       I find it great, that based on only a photo and bio that Feb knew she was right for you, most don't fall into it that easily. Especially since she wasn't looking for a husband.
    Would my wife have married me had I been a penniless american driving a tricycle in the Phils? Probably not, but then, it was her hopes to marry outside the Phils. from childhood. Does that make her wrong in the eyes of God? Instead she married a garbageman from the U.S. who happened to become laid off and penniless a month after she got here, but what makes her less than a "good" catholic with less than pure intentions was the fact that she accepted ALL of me Would Feb. really have married you had you been a penniless american farmer in the Phils? Probably not, unless you posted a bio in that fateful penpal magazine, but since your penniless, that would seem unlikely.
     In all reality if we met at one of those parties you now avoid, we'd agree that we have alot in common. We could care less about the size of your house, ours is 400 sqf. We talked about getting chickens, but we need a little more space. I'd been in the horse business for 15 years, both draft and pack. I've raised and slaughtered my share of hogs. I'm back to work at $9 an hour. We are supporting her family as best we can. Are they demanding help? Not
at all.    Just like you, we KNOW we are right for each other and I know I have been blessed with someone in my life that never in my wildest dreams would I have thought possible.
     What makes me so fortunate and lucky, is to be in her shadow of such strength, faith and commitment to our marraige that I can only pale in comparison, no matter how hard I try and for someone to suggest that she and her motives can only be self-centered and a sin for marrying me is.....We talked once about what we expect in a marriage. My wife's response was "to truly love someone, there is no expecting, but instead only accepting that person for who they are". She shows that to be true every moment of every day!!!
    You wrote.."As for the generalization about filipinas wanting to be worldly, it is just meaning that they were not considering spiritual things first and foremost." Let's face facts, thumbing thru a penpal magazine that was in your mail is not thought by most as considering spiritual things first and foremost as much as it might be worldly things.
   I'm not at all condenming the how's and why's of your marriage or the "type" of people you are, I can only suggest neither should you. As for my wife and her relationship with God, I'm sure he'll understand,
  BTW, not all people consider step children as a headache. You'd have to agree(you may not understand) if you ever saw my wife and my two daughters together. Just one more thing that makes her soooo special.

[Bear]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

nt

[Matthew]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

Greg,

Sounds like your wife has an axe to grind with some Filipinas she has met here.Those who main topic of conversation is money and keeping up with the Jones'es.I  can understand that.Those types of Filipinas are found in every Fil/Am community.It seems by your post they attack her and belittle her lifestyle.That is unfair.Just as for her to question the beliefs and motives of Filipinas who married divorced men is unfair.You just happen to have been never married.Most of us have been married at one time or another.Would your wife have never considered you as a suitor if you had been married?If she had feelings for you she would have had a decision,just like my wife.If your wife just dismissed you as a potential life partner then it seems she would have missed out on her soulmate.She would be much the poorer in her spiritual life.That would have been too bad.Don't condemn the rest of us because you guys never had to make that choice.Live and let live.We all make our own choices.

I think Feb got some flack also because alot of people remember her "ignorant Protestant" remark.Kind of harsh.

tito Matt

BTW-do you guys use the rhythm method??The priest who married me and my ex-wife told us to just use birth control.
This priest(who was ordained by the pope)said we were to young to handle kids.He was right.God bless his practicality!Hope he is not going to hell:)

[Ray]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

Hi Greg, welcome to the forum. It’s about time you came out of lurk mode!

I agree with just about everything that you said, but I hope that you and your wife also understand why she got the negative responses that she did. A guy came on here and asked a valid question and she tried to answer him, which is fine. However, when she used the opportunity to pass judgement upon others by saying some unkind things about some of the ladies, then she should have expected the response that she got. I would say that at least 80% of the guys that participate here are divorced and I’m sure that the majority of their wives or fiancées are Catholic. I really didn’t personally have any big problem with what she said, but I’m sure that it came across as rather insulting to the average reader. She may have said what she thought was right, but the response was to be expected. I think she could have chosen her words a little more carefully, but I think I know exactly what she was trying to say.

I would just correct one statement that Raquel made. I do not agree with her when she said “I would never accept a divorced man for my husband,and any good practicing catholic filipina never would either”. I was divorced and my wife is definitely a good practicing Catholic Filipina. Without going into all the details, I can tell you that our marriage was sanctioned by the Church and we were married before God in a traditional Catholic wedding ceremony. I think the “never” part was a bad choice of words and her other comment about “only thinking about worldly things and a richer lifestyle” definitely didn’t come across very well. When you claim to know what others are thinking, you are asking for trouble on this forum, so don’t be so quick to imply that somebody here twisted her words in order to attack her. Those were her words, not anyone else’s.

So, if you haven’t done so already, please explain a few things to your wife about Web forums and choosing your words more carefully when posting here. She has every right to come on here and chastise other Catholics for not following their faith if she wants to, but she should understand that this isn’t the Philippines and 85% of the people who post here aren’t Catholic. She should also understand that Catholics are often prime targets for criticism in this country, especially with the recent events in the news, so when she attempts to defend her faith on this forum, she is bound to get some negative comments. I’m not saying that she is wrong in doing it, just that she shouldn’t be surprised by the reaction. Personally, I would strongly advise my wife to stay away from too much controversy while she was pregnant. It can’t be any good for her health :-)

Anyway, I always enjoyed Febtember’s stories and I hope she will continue to participate here. I wish you both much happiness in your marriage. And don’t be a stranger…

Ray

[NoNamePinay]

... in response to My Opinion, posted by Ray on Dec 6, 2002

Hi Ray,
Nice post! you said it Ray I agree with all what you've said. We are NOT in Kansas anymore I mean, we are not in the Philippines anymore . I know that there are lots of American who are Catholic in Religion but got divorced once or twice and remarried divorce'/divorcee' also. They just don't follow God's teaching and their Faith anymore these days.

God bless and forgive those who are Filipinas married to divorced men. God bless also to all Filipinas married to single Catholic men.

NNP

[Dave H]

... in response to My Opinion, posted by Ray on Dec 6, 2002

Hi Ray,

I agree with your post! As with many others here, I like Febtember and Greg very much. But, those blanket statements certainly didn't apply to my wife or many others here.

Dave H.

[Jeff S]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

I find disparaging comments about people's faiths not only inflammatory but senseless - as if someone is ever going to drop their moral compass because an anonomous poster said something from a viewpoint of non-belief and often ignorance of the basis of the belief. I applaud your and Raquel's adherance to your beliefs and principles - this coming from a non-Catholic and non-Christian.

There will always be plenty of people of all nationalities bowing to the almighty dollar, in deference to a life well lived. It was so back thousands of years ago and probably will be so thousands of years from now. Whether your wife comes from a poor nation or a rich one (my wife from Japan, for instance) - the ONLY valid reason for coming is for love - not using a marriage for a better life. In many of the happy marriages like Ken C from the Russian board, and Stephen and Tess from this board, as well as my wife and I, the wife puts up with life in the US because it's where her husband is. If something were to change, these women would head home - well maybe not my wife now after 17 years. She's feeling like the US is "home"

So - did the big storm dump lots of snow on your farm this week? Bet you didn't expect it so soon.

- Jeff S.

[shadow]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

Clap, clap.

I admire and respect the both of you.

May you live a long and happy life together.

Larry.

[Humabdos]

... in response to my take on it, posted by Febtember on Dec 6, 2002

Well, Greg I can agree with most of what you said until you got to the religion part. God also said don't worship false idols.

Maybe you can explain to me how these priest's and high up's justify molesting children? Is going to confession after raping a child going to clean there slate in the eye's of the lord?  I say NO WAY they will burn in hell with those who protected them!

Just my .02 Hum