Pinays, religion, and sin.

[shadow]

I felt for some inexplicable reason that I ought to try to explain why the recent controversy RE Feb's post 'struck a nerve' in me, so to speak.

As most of you have probably deducted, I have no religion. None. It's possible that tucked away somewhere in the depths of my being that there is still a morsel of belief in God, but even that was tested rather extensively a couple of years ago. I know very little about religion except what I see it has done to various societies, which I cannot say would be something I would want to be associated with in any way.

So, that being said, enter the Philippines, where everywhere a person looks is obsession with religion, mostly, the Catholic religion.

After my ordeal with Myrna, (who claimed to be devoted Catholic, I might add) and the deciet and lies I encountered with her my quest took on a different angle. This angle involves religion and is probably the leading cause I still have not found that special lady after 6 trips. I can sum it up in one word.

Hypocrisy.

This may be a little harsh, but I don't know of a better way to put it.

My first trip back to the PI after Myrna was intended to renew a relationship with a girl named Nanette that I had met the same day and method I met Myrna. She had previously seemed very sweet although a little immature. She came from a 'good Catholic family' who of course immediately set out to 'save' me. Two years had passed so I thought maybe she had matured some. She certainly had.

The first thing she wanted me to do was buy her a cell phone. I refused. Actually, I bought a cellphone for me, with the intention of leaving it with her when I left, but she didn't know that.

Within a matter of just a few days she had concocted a story about how she was due to graduate from college but she couldn't because she didn't have a birth certificate. How much does a birth certificate cost Nanette? P5000. Anyone that has gone through the immigration process knows that a B.C. does not cost even a tenth of that. I told her I wanted a reciept, and gave her the P5000. This was now a test of her honesty. She failed with flying colors.

She called me that evening. Guess what she's got? A new cell phone that her 'brother' bought for her.

In the meantime her 'good Catholic family' had been partying pretty good at my expense. If they wanted beer and chicken, I forked over the money. Beer and chicken for Nanette's 'good Catholic family' cost as much as beer and chicken in the US. The whole family failed the honesty test.

Now, being maybe just a little bit bitter, I set out to test a few more Pinay's from 'good Catholic families'.

The results were absolutely shocking. In the weeks that followed I 'tested' a dozen or more girls in a similar manner. Most all failed. In one meal (which I bought of course) I could often get them to show their true colors.

Two of them had the audacity to preach to me while we are eating, then when it is time to leave I give them P500 and ask them to pay the bill, which was normally in the P100-P200 range. I then got up and went to the CR. They kept the change. No, they didn't leave it as a tip, it went into their pocket or purse. One minute they are preaching to me, telling me in a sense I am not good enough for them or their family because I am not Catholic and I must become one, the next minute they are STEALING from me?

Others only lied or attempted deciet.

Since then I have come to know many young ladies, and this behaviour seems to be prevailant in a good many 'good Catholic families' in the PI. In fact, lying and otherwise being decietful seems to be much more prevailant in the PI than it is at the Sturgis motorcyvcle rally! This despite the religious fanaticism that runs rampant in the PI.

This no longer bothers me as much as it used to, but still the first thing I do when I meet a lady that I think I might be interested in is to somehow test her integrity. Most fail.

Now, at first meeting I inform them I have no money to give them or their family and that I intend to live in the PI in a nipa hut and have no intention of taking them to the US. The few that are left after that I test a bit. The simple 'pay the bill' test will trip up one in four.

Most are looking for a handout of one kind or another. Several have asked for assistance with college. I told them to bring me itemized costs and that I want reciepts for everything. After that none have pursued it. I will not even try to help someone who won't help themself.

Now before everyone thinks I am bashing catholics, let me assure you I am not. My belief is that EVERYONE has a right to their beliefs.

I am bashing those who will profess to be good practicing catholics in one breath, and therefore I am not good enough for them and their family, and in the next breath they are commiting SIN! THAT is the true definition of HYPOCRISY!!

As I stated I know very little about religion, but I do believe divorce is not allowed in the catholic church. At least, the OLD catholic church. Seems as though they are rewriting the rules for everything. Yes, they even rewrite BIBLES to suit the masses, which of course adds to my distrust of religion in general. GOD didn't write any bible, MAN did.

Personally, I couldn't care less. Divorce is the american way of life. To say good practicing catholic will not marry divorced suitor may be stretching things a bit. I cannot say.

What I DO believe is that Feb IS a good practicing catholic, and that I would bet my life she would have passed the 'pay the bill' test.

Therefore, I hold her in the highest regard.

I'm done preaching now.

Larry.

[The Walker]

... in response to Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by shadow on Dec 6, 2002


I, like Tim, have stayed out of this one until now. I freely confess Christian and especially Catholic cannons confuse me no end. I too have seen many people of ALL faiths (and agnostics and athiests) say one thing and do another.

Vicky is a good daughter of the church. Even if she did marry a divrced man (If it makes a difference, my ex divorced me from Nevada. I had little to say about it in the end). She observes the sacraments, the cannons, all the little things. She almost never misses mass (weather here, farm emergencies and calving season sometimes prevent, but not often). She even drags me along once a month. She gives money and time to the Church and she has an excellent relationship with the priest (a charming fellow that I am friends with as well). She does try to convert me, without success. She is a Catholic in thought, word and deed (and pocket!).

I, on the other hand, am an unconverted savage (to Christians) in my beliefs. To us, religion is more of a personal relationship between us and the Spirit World. I know Vicky is not allowed to have any part in my religious observances and I do not try to force her. Mine are more flexible, and as I said, I attend mass once a month with her.

Vickly does charitable works both within the Catholic community here, and without. Her charity does not begin and end with the Holy Roman Church. When she gives time and money at the local homeless shelter, she does not ask the religion, if any, of the recipients. She sees people in need, and she helps. She is also ruthlessly honest (yes, that is the correct word in her case), especially with other people's money.

Having said all this I do agree that there are many people in the Phils who are not good people (I cannot judge if they are good Catholics, I am not qualified). The people you describe. But for most of them, the Church is what they were born into, as many an Irish IRA man was born into the Church as well. It is something they have attended all their life and pay little attention to outside of Sunday. And they are not alone. I know many Americans who are the same way about church. They do what they have to do to survive. I will never criticize a woman for whoring herself to feed her children, whether in the Philippines or in America or anywhere else. The stealing of the change troubles me, especially since it was done on a full belly. But they all have the excellent example of a government so corrupt even the UN takes notice. I have lived abroad quite a bit in the service, and seen the Heights and the underbelly of many nations. I often feel more at ease, and safer, among openly-professed theives and rascals than the intelligentsia of many nations.

In a nod to Wendy's people, despite all the Hollywood movies to the opposite, the Chinese tend to be honest businessmen and women. Not that they are not sharp operators, they are good at business, but they will almost never cheat you. Their personal reputation means a lot to them, as ours do to our tribal members. I have never been short-changed in China and the proprietors have always been friendly and helpful and genuinely interested in America. Especially in funny stories abut America, Americans, and American politics and general stories about family life in America.

Vicky did not need to marry me for money. She has quite a bit of her own, and makes more off me (she is an employee of the ranch). Pretty soon I'll be able to retire on HER income. ;-) Or else she'll buy me out and I'll wind up working for her, and she's a strict boss.

Seriously, Vicky's entire family are very nice. The women are all Catholics in more than name. The men less so, as appears to be the norm in the Phils, but all are honest. Not that Uncle will not try to cut your throat in a business deal, but he'll do it honestly. He is also an amazing pool shark (I'm a hundred bucks in the hole, pending our next trip to the Phils).

Shadow, have you gone far outside of the metro areas (especially Manila)? I find that the rural folk, especially on Leyte, seem to be a bit more devout and honest. Manila and the other big cities have a corrupting influence, or maybe they attract more hucksters. I too, have seen the attitude towards Americans and Europeans and other from wealthy countries that you mention in the Philippines. They are seen as a fat cow to be milked. "Aw, those rich Americans, they will never miss it." That sort of thing goes on in America, too, subsidized by the IRS and politicians and greedy lefty commie wannabe's. "Oh, that billionaire, we should all fleece him. After all, he's not entitled to keep all that money." Didn't he earn it? Seems to make no difference. But I have been in poor places where the people would sooner die of starvation than steal. Afghanistan being the most recent. The peasants are universally honest and decent.

I have managed to keep Vicky out of this fight, as I did not want to see two Filipinas get their backs up, especially when I have to live with one of them and the eventual fallout. :-  Suffice it to say, Vicky had plenty to say about marrying a divorced man and moving to America to be better off, and about how bad a Catholic she was for doing so.

That's why I prefer my own religion. Your relationship with the Spirit World is between you and the Spirits and it is not anyone else's business. You will be rewarded or punished by the Spirits, and men leave that decision to them.

-WP

[Howard]

... in response to Re: Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by The Walker on Dec 7, 2002

asfd

[shadow]

... in response to Re: Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by The Walker on Dec 7, 2002

someone I can relate to spiritually.

Having been raised half way between an indian reservation (Nesika Illahee, Siletz, Oregon) and a logging community (Toledo, Oregon), I didn't really fit in anywhere. I learned to fight young to survive. The alternative was bleak at best.

I wound up being resepected by and friends with the indians, and have spent a large portion of my life living amongst them. (I'm on the res now)

Every trip to the PI I go someplace out of the city. This trip for instance, I rode the non aircon bus Cebu to Toledo, rode the ferry second class to San Carlos, and the non aircon bus to Dumaguete, and back the same way. I had the pleasure of being in a bus that was in a head-on collision with a jeepney, and got stranded for a night in San Carlos at a boarding house for P80. It was great!

In the remoter areas the people are wonderful. The bus accident happened in front of a school in a remote area. I became the main attraction, not the two wrecked busses and jeepney.

I was picked up at the bus station in San Carlos by a tricycle driver who escorted me all around town for 6 hours. At the end I literally had to force him to take 40 pisos. He would accept no more.

Before the evening was over, I had walked into two places I had never before been and was greeted with "Welcome, Larry." Seemed everyone in town knew I was there, and knew my name!

It is the remote areas that I have fallen in love with. I am a country boy all the way through. The only city in the world I have come to like is Cebu, but the people there cannot compete with the rural folk.

Thanx for your input.

Larry.

[Mars]

... in response to At last...,, posted by shadow on Dec 8, 2002

My kids are Oglala (Pine Ridge).

[The Walker]

... in response to Lived on the rez too.., posted by Mars on Dec 8, 2002

[Mita]

... in response to Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by shadow on Dec 6, 2002

I'm Catholic and a Filipina.  I grew up with the sickening hypocrisy of so many of my kind.  People who would dare receive holy communion on Sunday while openly maintaining sexual relations outside of marriage or beating their wives and children. It is a mortal sin to receive communion if you are not in a state of grace - that is you have mortal sins you haven't confessed and made penance for.  But people always do it.  They were regarded as good, practising Catholics.
Rich people monetarily helping the Church like you can buy eternal life (anyone here watch the Sopranos?)and then bragging about it or the Church parading and exulting these people.  Whatever happened to "Blessed are the meek" ?
Annulments have a price.  Don't believe it when you are told there is no divorce in the Catholic Church.  Marriage tribunals will annul your previous non-Catholic marriage for a fee of $1k and a 1-year wait.
My religion and my faith are very personal matters. But as far as institutions and man-made rules?  I use my better judgment on that and will call a spade a spade.

[greg]

... in response to Re: Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by Mita on Dec 7, 2002

my friend. Pls EM me, thanks

[Howard]

... in response to Re: Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by Mita on Dec 7, 2002

Mita,

Thank you.  I was begining to wonder if anyone had had similar expiriences to mine, or if I was going completely mad!(Still a distinct possiblility )

Now I know I'm not alone in my observations

Keep the Faith

H

[shadow]

... in response to Re: Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by Mita on Dec 7, 2002

Thank you for your insights, honesty, and opinion.

Larry.

[webspin]

... in response to Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by shadow on Dec 6, 2002

Hello Larry,
If you're still interested in pinay in PI, I would suggest you try to pursue the ones from rich families, not from poor catholic families. They have more class. I know how you feel cuz it happened to one of my filipino friends. Otherwise, you're best bet is to pursue pinays here in the US.

[outwest77]

... in response to Re: Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by webspin on Dec 7, 2002

I am surprised your post got by with so few responses. So pinays from poor families dont make good mates, ? In a way
i can see your point but, money cant buy class either,
judge each person on an individual basis.

[shadow]

... in response to Re: Re: Pinays, religion, and sin., posted by outwest77 on Dec 7, 2002

I always try to take each person as an individual, because every person IS an individual.

I must say though that what Web said could be true to a certain extent. The 2 ladies I have met from wealthy families have both been my friends since. They have never that I know of lied to or tried to cheat me in any way.

I'm sure much of this boils down to desperation. A desperate person is much more likely to do something unethical than someone less desperate.

I must also add that the ladies in question were mostly young (under 25) AND I met them through introduction agencies, which I am now convinced is not a good example of the ladies in the general populace. I now believe the odds of finding the wrong ones increase dramatically with this method.

Just my opinion.

Larry.

[outwest77]

... in response to You're right, of course., posted by shadow on Dec 7, 2002

My gf family has money , i never send her a dime, she has never asked me for a dime or tried to bamboozle me out of one, and i must say if she had i would have different feelings, so in a way a girl from a family with a bit of money avoids a lot of the typical pitfalls, It sounds bad though to hear it said but , it takes money out of the equation , which is the  cause of a lot of conflict, it often seems.

[Mita]

... in response to Re: You're right, of course., posted by outwest77 on Dec 7, 2002

She doesn't have to come from a family of means.  So long as she has an income and can live within her means should be enough.
I agree with you, money causes a lot of conflict and should not be part of the equation in a love relationship.