venting

[Jay]

... in response to Why . . ., posted by kevin on Sep 6, 2002

Kevin,

As Patrick said above, I will just make my argument and let it stand on it's own merit's.

If I dumped my wife for every little untruth I heard at the begining of our relationship, I'd be drunk in an alley somewhere! Or worse. I didn't even know my step-daughters' father was alive till after I was married. In your book, that would make my wife the Daughter of Satan. Your ex really ruined you.
I can't say as I blame you for being mistrusting, but you have GOT to get over it! It's becoming deep and dark with you. This obsession and it really shows in your written word. If you haven't noticed by now, telling one Filipina how you think a whole segment of them are untrustworthy, evil people, only out to use guy's, will get you NOWHERE. I don't know much about many other women, but I know a bit about Filipina's, and if a woman hear's any of these thought's, she'll be gone!! She'll think that that's what you think of Filipina's no matter what else you say. I'm sure you probably get e-mail's from Filipina's who do and have, posted here. They probably tell you don't worry, you'll find a special Filipina one day, but they just say that because they like you, they know your sentimental and emotional, and they feel bad that one of thier own did this to you. However, I'll bet not a one would go out with you given the oppourtunity.

I'll let you in on a little secret, Kevin. There were a few other little deception's that about caused me to drink myself to death over, BUT I WORKED IT OUT INSIDE MYSELF. If you recall, I met my wife while I was managing a bar in Angeles. Talk about being untrusting, I had dealt with so many F@cked up Filipina's, that I didn't believe ANY Filipina's, let alone a bargirl. Eight years later, thing's are GOOD. Life is GOOD. Criselda is GREAT.

Whole point of my rant is; you don't know Helen. You've never met her. That leaving, "I can't commit", emotional crap doesn't fly with a Filipina. It ONLY work's on western women who watch Opra. I certainly am not taking sides, unlike you, because I don't know Zeb or her. Sound's to me just like Honey said, that both made enough mistakes to go around.

You know, if a guy get's himself some little 20 yr. old virgin, he may not get alot of baggage with her, but if he marries a woman 25+, he's going to get more with age. The older they are the mor they will have, probably.

Say I'm jumping on you or what the hell ever, but this attitude of "This Filipina or that Filipina are Satan's daughter" garbage, is getting on my nerves now, too.

I truly hope you believe in God, Kevin, because that's the only way your going to get another Filipina. Give prayer a try, and stop looking in those book's for your answer's. It worked for me..

Jay
The EX most untrusting SOB on the planet

[Matthew]

... in response to Re: Why . . ., posted by Jay on Sep 6, 2002

Hey Jay,

I understand your post to Kevin but he is going to take it as an attack.I remember you gave me similiar advice after my divorce but I didn't want to hear it.I had a justifiable(in my mind)resentment and I wasn't going to let it go.I held onto it for so long that,oddly enough,it became sort of comfortable and familiar.Like a blanket:)Sometimes it blew hot and sometimes it just simmered but it was always there.To let it go meant I would have to move foward.I never seemed ready.Of course, as you know, resentments became a luxury I could no longer afford.I had to to alot of working on myself to let it go.Thanks God I did.Now if anybody mentions the ex I just roll my eyes and shake my head and kind of chuckle.I really do hope she is doing well.
It takes what it takes for some people and it is hard for others to rush it with well intentioned advice.

One thing I would like to clarify for the folks out there and I am sure you will agree totally.You had a drinking problem looonnngg before you met Criselda.So whatever deception issues you faced did not "about cause you to drink yourself to death".You would have happily done it anyway.No excuses needed for you,bro!I am glad you stuck it out.Criselda's loyalty,values and faith were my own inspiration for seeking a wife in the RP.Life is good!

tito Matt

[Jay]

... in response to Re: Re: Why . . ., posted by Matthew on Sep 6, 2002

Hey Matt,

Yeah, your right. I just used that phrase because I think I drank a bit harder, maybe?

I always knew Criselda was the inspiration! LOL!

Jay

[kevin]

... in response to Re: Why . . ., posted by Jay on Sep 6, 2002

I've cooled a bit, and reread your post.  Yes, prayer, and God and his grace are important.  My perception of you and your wife is that you both found God and you changed your ways for the better.  That is good.

What really set me off is you're saying that no good Filipina would ever want to go out with me if given the opportunity.  Come on, am I that bad?  I'd like to reiterate that to an extent I am an outcast in my family because of my personal preferences and what I beleive in.  Maybe it's not politically correct tolament about this on the board.  But I can say this much.  At family gatherings, from time to time I have to live with the "I told you so"'s regarding my past experiences, and the "Your stupid"'s, "Haven't you learned your lessons"', and "They all just want to get to the United States"' phrases.  I have my agates busted because certain family members (because my phone line is always busy when I'm on the internet) suspect I might be corresponding with a Filipina.

Don't slam me.  I have the right to be happy so long as I don't hurt anybody,just like everybody else.  Today, I feel like a semi-outcast by both my own circle and by some Planet Love characters.

Yes I am skeptical.  Should you expect me to jump into something blindly?  I think that is stupidity.

I know I'm different and so are alot of us males who post here.  But women are individuals too.  Although most may have common ideals, desires, expectations in a man, etc., they can have their personal preferences too.

I feel very strongly about the golddigger situation.  You know and I know it is very real.  I thought I was once very much loved, and then that same person treated me like garbage.  Well, I recovered.  The big lesson in life I learned is that a woman may seem to love you and cling to you for dear life one day, but then hate your guts the next.

I'm burning out trying to get the message across about whom and what I really am.  I know many regard me as scum or whatever, but so be it.  Just because a few people don't like me doesn't mean that absolutely everybody should disdain me.

I used to admire you, Jay, given the way you were in the past, transforming to your present self.  For the most part, I think I still like you.  I think I must have got your goat or some other misunderstanding.  We all have those days.

- Kevin

[Jay]

... in response to Re: Re: Why . . ., posted by kevin on Sep 6, 2002

Kevin,

Ok, I'm home from work, completely exhausted, a bit cranky (excuse me), but determined to answer you. I've been thinking about it all evening. Without writing a novel, I will do my best to reply in full.

First off, let's get a couple of thing's straight on the record, incase I have not made myself clear. I resort to suggesting prayer only to close friend's and only if I think a situation is bordering on hopeless. Criselda and I have not "found God". We were both raised Catholic, but were not active church member's when we met, as you can imagine. We're still not. She has always lit candles on a little alter in whatever house she or we lived in, and still does. She has mentioned over time to me how her faith changed from believing in God, because that's the way she was raised, to REALLY believing based on her own experiences, since we met. She has what I call true faith now. As for me, I was about the same until I went to a penitentary in Texas at 18. By the time I walked out 2 1/2 yrs. later I had a deep understanding and belief. A personal relationship, if you will. Without getting to deep into it, I will say that twice in the Pen I was supposed to die there, but did not. Once a contract was put on me, and once a guy with 3 life sentences who was trying to get into permanant lock-up, decided I had wronged him, and killing me would allow him to spend the rest of his life doing time alone. In both cases, both parties had a last second change of heart. This happening in a prison setting would be strange happening once. Happening twice is impossible. In both cases I later learned that both parties had felt "the hand of God touch thier hearts". These instances happened about a year apart, and niether party new each other. Both the "Buyer" on the contract, and the lifer used the same word's,"the hand of God touch my heart". Both related this to me at later times. My hair stood on end when I heard it the socond time. These were killer's. They didn't play that "God BS", to use the word's of the lifer. I was convinced. So, no I haven't found God, and frankly I dislike the term. Sound's like BS jailhouse conversion to me.

My second point to get clear is about Criselda. Incase you forgot or anyone who has't heard or remember the story. I met Criselda in a bar in Angeles I managed. She quit the day I took over. A couple of days later I saw her again and we began talking. By the time we met, I had been cheated on and/or lied to by many Filipina's. I'm talking about the "nice" girl's, who wouldn't know a bar if they fell over one. They can be evil Beeaatch's as well. This began in high school. I also had been through this with AW's, so I felt no differently about them. I just felt they had a different way of BSing. I didn't trust women at all.

I went back to Angeles to bury a few ghost's I had left there. Also thought that I might find a decent woman there. I had before. Not ALL my girlfriend's in my life did me wrong, but alot did. I had no future, no plan's, just thought I would retire from punchin' a clock and spend my remaining days, getting all the sweet poontang I could afford, drink San Migoo's and do Filipino LSD till I dropped. The LSD didn't work out to well, because I found that I wasn't able to handle it quite as well as I could when younger. I kept getting "bad trip's", and making a fool aut of myself suddenly jumping up in public places like movies, bus's or jeepney's, slapping my face repeatedly and screaming, "HELP I'M DYING!!!. It got old quick, but the poontang and San Migoo's were going just fine. Anyway, I digress.

[Jay]

... in response to (part 1), posted by Jay on Sep 7, 2002

When I met Criselda I thought she was hot. I really liked the way she talked, though, different from any other woman I had seen there. However, bottom line was I wanted in her pant's. She told me she didn't go "barfine" OR "short time" with customer's.  So, I figured, "ah, well, nevermind her then". However, She worked in an open bar next to my bar/room so she was the last stop as I slithered home every evening. We stated to "date". I paid for her time to go out, but no "'tang". It was ok for me, I knew she needed the money, and I liked her. I did not believe her about not going out, though. Very few women in Angeles don't. Hell, even the old women who clean the bar's will, with the right dude, for the right price. So as I started to like this woman more, I remembered I could check the book's at least of the bar I managed. She worked in the one I had managed, remember. Well, I checked the book's and looked up "GRACE". Yup, even her first and last name was BS when we met. NO barfine, NO short time. As time went on I asked the owner of the bar she worked in at the time, and the owner of the bar she worked in for a year, before I got there. Being a manager gave me the oppourtunity to know and drink with the big boys. It's not everyone who get's the oppoutunity to check out thier woman like that in Angeles, most have to take it on faith about thier woman's involvement.

I knew a guy in Angeles I'll call John. This was shortly after i arrived. He was a really good guy from Australia. He had married a very popular young short time girl. EVERYONE knew her. One day me, John and a bar owner were drinking in the owner's bar. John say's to the owner, "T----, did I ever F--- your wife??". T--- says, "No John, I don't think so, why?". John says, "Well T---, you have F'ed mine, and I don't like it." T--- says, "Well John, I understand, but that's life in Angeles, you just got to deal with it." Nine days later after a big fight with his wife, who by the way,  really loved this guy, John walked into thier bedroom, locked the door, swallowed 300 Valium 10, drank a San Miguel, laid down and died.

My point is I didn't want to be John. I COULD NOT marry a hooker. Just couldn't handle it. Despite all my proof, how could I ever be sure at that time or the next couple of years till that doubt went away. Did she ever turn a trick? Don't look that way. Knowing what I know now I could'nt imagine it. So lets get that on the record. She had nothing to change her ways from.

Now, she still lied about some major issues. She had her whole family back up her lies too. First I though her daughters father had died in the Baguio earthquake. Also, before we were married I was to return to the US. My MOm was dying from cancer. I missed my flight out. All flight's were sold out for a while after that. I was about broke with no place to go. She took me to HER house. A fairly nice one I had paid for with all those "sexless, paid money to the bar, dates". SHE paid for averything from this time forward. Soon after I found myself in a personal situation which prevented me from leaving the RP, flight's or no flight's. I stayed 3 months. During this time I knew these people were not telling me something. I'm very intuitive. I found out after about two month's one thing she didn't tell me. One morning I am sitting in front of the house. I'm doing my usual morning wake up. Reading the paper drinking straight Tanduay ESQ. No ice, couldn't afford it often, wearing just my chinella's and Airwolf shorts. No underwear. These short's had legs so wide, anyone coming towards me  could see my "luggage" in all it's glory. Just couldn't hide it unless I closed my legs tightly. Criselda was washing clothes a few feet away in the yard. all of a sudden I hear the front gate opening, I look up and see a Filipino guy walk in, stop in his track's, look for  a second and turn around and walk out. I look at Criselda. She had just looked up for a second when he came in and then went back to the wash. I look at her and say, "who the F was that?". She says I don't know, like it was nothing. I go out and look down the street. I see him standing by a house just looking. I start walking over there and April is comming towards me. She can't speak a lick of English, but she understood it well enough. I ask her who he is, and she just walk's past with her head down, trying to avoid my gaze. Come to find out, this is Criselda's boyfriend. He lives in another town, He is a factory manager. Very well built and good looking. She had told him 3 month's before that they were through because she found out he had other girl's. That's why he didn't want April and Criselda to live with him. They had been together 3 years. He didn't really think they were broke up. Another thing I foud out later they were hiding was that her brother was on the run from the law. He was a bigtime bonafide gangster/killer. Public enemy #1 in Baguio even, His name was Romulo. A serious bad azz with a killin' problem. They didn't want me to know. actually, I met the guy and we got along great. He was just that though, a serious bad azz with a killin' problem. He was a bit physcopathic. However, I didn't like being lied to. All this caused me to obsess for years with doubt. Till I worked it out.

Now I'm only saying that I have been somewhat in your shoes as far as trust issue's go. NOBODY, hates you, is blasting you, suggesting you can't get a Filipina or any of that . I am just saying you must judge the next lady on her own merits. You MUST find a way. You MUST keep those thoughyt's to yourself, or a Filipina will have nothing to do with you romanticaly. My point in my words above is that these women may have issues that they will lie to you about in the begining for thier own reasons. You cannot expect 100% honesty up front. Not from a Filipina. They lie ALOT, kevin. Simple white lies even, just because they think you will not like it if they tell you the truth. They are real "people pleaser's". It's thier way.

Our marriage almost broke up many times in the begining because I was driving myself nuts. For example, when she would go to the store, I might ask how long she was there and with who. She might say 30 minutes, alone. I would find out later it was 1 1/2 hrs. with a Filipina I didn't care for, and to me that was a crisis. It was a lie and it drove me nut's. This lasted about the first 4-5 years of our marriage. This is what I meant by "drinking myself to death over little deceptions". That's because of the HUGE deceptions in the begining. I couldn't believe a word she said. Even, "I love you". I told her alot of the same stuff you say now about Filipina's. She was insulted bad. I was a monster. It was dark and deep. It get's inside you. I know, because I've been there. I'm LUCKY, REALLY LUCKY she's still here. I almost blew it, bigtime.

Sure there are goldiggers, and you must be aware. However, you can't let it destroy you or your chance for love with a Filipina. You are letting it destroy that chance, though. You have to work it out. Keep your mouth shut about it in the meantime. Probably too late now, but you might have gotten one of these Filipina's around here to hook you up. They ALL know somebody. Also stop thinking everyone is against you. Even Ray. He's a good guy, Kevin, you just got on his last nerve with that Sh1t. It's understandable.

Speaking of us being friends, (which I do consider us), you never let me off the hook on the fart rant I went on. I apologized profusely(sp?) 3 times, as recently as yesterday.  This is for you or anyone else who was offended because I seemed anti-fart.. GET OVER IT, PEOPLE. I got grossed out one morning, that's all. Isn't that the point of fart humor?? You should be laughing, not holding resentments towards me over it. Ya got me.

Anyway, I'm going to bed. I wouldn't post stuff this personal if I didn't care, Kevin. Best of luck to you, my friend.

Jay

I don't have time to spell check, so excuse my mistakes please.  

[Jay]

... in response to Part2, posted by Jay on Sep 7, 2002

I'd like to make a correction. I said,

"You cannot expect 100% honesty up front. Not from a Filipina. They lie ALOT".

That's obviously wrong. LOL! Told ya I was tired. Sorry Ladies.

I should have said if you don't get 100% honesty up front, don't be shocked. In many cases you might run across a Filipina who tries to keep something that she thinks you won't understand. Like my wifes brother. Or a previous marriage. Sometimes you have to dig gently till you earn thier trust. Trust that your not going to hate them for it.

As for the little white lies, which I'm sorry if I Offend,
most if not all Filipina's I've met, do this at lest once in a while. They're really harmless, usually done to make you happier in some way. Got to trust them on that. Problem is If you have big trust issues like I did or you DO. The little lies can make you more distrusting. It's been mentioned here before.

gnight....

Jay

[Jay]

... in response to Re: Re: Why . . ., posted by kevin on Sep 6, 2002

Hi Kevin,

You aparently misunderstood some of my post. I will post a reply later as I don't have time now. Got to go to work. Your more than alright in my book, Kevin. Yaeh, ya got my goat a bit, but that was really a post trying to help, believe it or not. Talk to you later.

Jay

[Stephen]

... in response to Re: Re: Why . . ., posted by kevin on Sep 6, 2002

Here's my honest opinion.

I think you've had a lot of hurt.

Because of this you've set up a lot of defenses.  You've got a set of tests that these ladies have to pass.  But your "tests" are so high that no one will probably be able to pass it.  They'll give up on you before you decide that you can open up and trust them.

I think you need to leave the past.  

Could you get taken again?  Yes.  There are no guarantees.  You just do what you can in life and play with the cards you've been given.  

I think Howard's a good example here.  He got burned.  But he got up and went forward.  You've got to do the same.  Howard thinks positive and goes forward.  You've dwell on your hurt and sit in the past.

NOW....could Howard get burned again?  YES.  (remember...no guarantees in life).  But his only hope is to go forward in life.

Kevin...you're not going forward.  You're standing in the past and hurting.  You won't get burned again....because you won't risk it.  You'll also be a very bitter guy.

Also think about this.  Maybe H gets burned again...but he's gonna be experiencing a lot of joy in life that you won't experience.    

I'm not saying this to pound on you.  I'm saying this to be an encouragement.  Go forward.  Take risk.  Grow.

One more thing....in your original response to Jay you said maybe you should try AW's or gays.  I don't think that's a good idea.  Filipinas are definately a lot more fun.  Trust me.

Stephen

[kevin]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Why . . ., posted by Stephen on Sep 6, 2002

I was being sarcastic about the AWs and gays comment.  Yes, I have my defenses.  Perhaps what set me off is the Helen saga.  Why?  If I'm not careful, it could happen to me.

Now that I have more spare time, I've stepped up the effort to cultivate new friendships with new Filipinas.  All I can do is cast my net and not sell myself short.  Although I may feel frustrated,lonely and yearning for affection at times, I'm not in a rush to get married.  I'm just going to make the effort to keep looking.

I'm used to the fact that certain family members will scorn me, try to discourage me, drill seeds of doubt, etc.  I don't care anymore.  I know what I want in life.

The same principle applies to those who try to put me down on this board by saying or implying that I'm not fit to share love with a Filipina.

What if the day comes when someday I make a special announcement?  That being abstractly, "I'm in love".  I'm sure some on this board would be very happy for me.  But I also know some would try to shoot me down because that's not what the real Kevin is supposed to be (or the traditional Kevin they knew who was their psychological plaything).

- Kevin

[Bear]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Re: Why . . ., posted by kevin on Sep 6, 2002

It wasn't so long ago I was pretty hurt and angry because of my divorce.  But I was determined to succeed at marriatal relationships and have the kind of family I always wanted.  To have such a relationship I not only had to find the right "girl" but most importantly I had to be the right "guy".  It meant I deserved most of the harashment I got from some of the guys here for my bitter statements and I just had to buck it up and get over it.  Now things are more than wonderful.  I really do not know how to be happier.

I get upset pretty easily also when I see events like many that have happened here.  Howard/Ayesa, Zebson/Helen, etc. But several things that appears to be common in all failed relationships is the unbelieveable stubborness at checking out things that are said, communicating your expectations and learning theirs, patience and an unwillingness to listen too and learn from others.  I was pretty close to making a mistake with Marichu (one of the girls I was almost involved with before Honey) but I observed what was going on and had a set plan and goals with certain characteristics to find and/or avoid.  I persisted and had a lot of luck and spiritual guidance and things have worked out wonderfully for me.  You can really do the same.

You have sent me lots of e-mails.  Quite a few have concerns about Helen and others.  And where as I think Helen's mistakes were the worst (more hurtfull of others) I still think Zebson caused most of his problems and did some really cruel things to Helen.  I simply broke up with Honey over a legal problem and got attacked for months (even after we got back together) but Helen was abandoned, cheated on and pretty much left to fend for herself (meaning not allowed to eat his food) once here America waiting on whether or not Zebson would marry her and no one has attacked him?! I have seen e-mails to other Filipinas during the period Helen and Zebson were supposed to be engaged, coming from Zebson.  So you think that Helen type Filipina might hurt you then I think you should just not treat one that bad and you'll be okay.

So, okay, a lot of you will think I am re-hashing/bashing Zebson.  No, I think what I am doing is trying to say most of the problems men have are caused by themselves.  In Zebson's favor I'll will admit that I know Helen had slept with at least 3 guys and had one child out of marriage before finally marrying the guys she has now.  That in itself would have ended it for me.  But the sad thing about it all is that she really did love Zebson, so much she gave up a scholarship to a college in England to come here and marry him even after he abandoned her in Bagiuo and cussed her out in front of her family and friends, and she found he had been e-mailing her best friend (he didn't know that she was her best friend).  So I think unless you plan on being like Zebson you can quit worrying about finding a girl like Helen - I hope you're not like that.

Bear and Honey

PS:  Zebson don't get mad, get glad (Honey's suggestion).

[Howard]

... in response to Ya know, posted by Bear on Sep 6, 2002

Art,

I understand where you're coming from and know first hand the size of your heart.  I will always feel that you are a step above many for what you did for me, no matter what the outcome.  Many would have turned their back, but you went FAR above and beyond the call of duty for a relative stranger.  Those who don't remember, should be reminded.

Your intentions are plain to see, but bringing up painful things in such great detail was just not necessary!  While your post, in it's intent, was fine. You crossed the line with rehashing some of the details.

Zeb has admitted that the mistakes were not all Helen's, let it go at that.  No one can heal if they keep getting old wounds open in public!

Keep the Faith

H

[Bear]

... in response to DUDE!??, posted by Howard on Sep 7, 2002

When someone acts as if they are so innocent and mistreated and did only proper and correct things in a failed relationship and I hear others praising the way that person reacted, knowing all along that person attacked in a "sly" manner an innocent, I can't help but to make sure that what I know to the contrary is known.

I for one do not like what Helen did - it is the thing that have caused so many people here real heartache.  But her motivations are clear - poverty and the fear of being caught in it.  What would you do in the same situation?  Zebson's are much more dispicable.  He is selfish to the point of completely "not caring" about anyone but himself - couldn't care less who he hurt as long as he stayed in control of his fears.  He needs psychiatric help.  And I don't want others complaining about how Helen cheated on him while he was trying to cheat on her.  The fact is he caused his own problems and hurt innocents along the way.

Bear and Honey

[Howard]

... in response to Re: DUDE!??, posted by Bear on Sep 7, 2002

B

I think the answer to that is obvious.  I would NOT do what Helen Did.  Being hurt by someone does not give someone the right to do anything their heart desires in order to get even.  Poverty does not excuse it either.  Neither does immaturity, nor broken heartedness.

I have never seen Zeb claim total innocence.  Now I only see him trying to move on.  Without being him, no one can really know what was going through his mind at the time, nor what motivated him to do these "unforgivable" things, but we are not his judge and jury.  

Good intentions sometimes hurt more than help.  I was honestly trying to be ther voice of reason and just seemed to stir the embers of this post.  That was not my intent.  I can't recommend stongly enough the theraputic advantages to forgiveness.

I mean no disrespect.  I will just agree to disagree with you on this one.  I don't know everthing you know and don't think this is the place to find out.  The situation is now over and I think that the parties involved should be given the opportunity to heal without old wounds being opened and salt rubbed in them.

To err is human... to forgive is divine

Keep the Faith

H

[Bear]

... in response to What would I do?, posted by Howard on Sep 7, 2002

What do you think she did?  What Zebson said she did?  Cheat on him?  But who were all the e-mails too from Zebson while she was there in California.  I have seen soom of them.  Is he allowed to cheat and receive praise while condemning another for the same?

Yeah, lets let the subject die but let it end with no high fives for abanding a girl in a strange land for something that didn't happen the way it was reported.  Right Zebson!

Bear and Honey