venting

[The Walker]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002


Now Alta Vista is banned. China demands that all search engines filter pornography and "unhealthy material" (political views that do not toe the communist line).

I see this as yet another move in a general crackdown coming in China. Tim may disagree, and I fully admit he and Wendy may be right.

Here's the link:

http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/internet/09/06/china.google/index.html

As I have said, the average Chinese families I have met are fine people, but their government is going to cause more trouble sooner than later. With Taiwan refusing to knuckle under I see a little more sabre-rattling ahead. To quote Chairman Mao; "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

Don

[shadow]

... in response to China slowly squeezing internet access., posted by The Walker on Sep 6, 2002

they are preparing to go back to communism. Bad news for the people of China.

Larry.

[Ray]

... in response to China slowly squeezing internet access., posted by The Walker on Sep 6, 2002

I saw this article the other day. Now it seems that they are shutting down the Internet Cafes also.

-----
China shuts Google's window to the world

Beijing tries to rein in power of the Net
By Michael A. Lev
CHICAGO TRIBUNE
September 4, 2002

BEIJING – China's government is regularly accused of trying to quash criticism and control the flow of information, but even by that standard yesterday was a remarkably bad day for its public relations machine.

First came news that the government has shut down Google, the Internet search engine, because it opened too wide a window to the outside world.

Then there were reports that security forces had beaten and kicked a German camera operator and confiscated his videotape for filming a group of North Korean refugees trying to seek asylum by dashing into a German diplomatic compound in Beijing.

Days earlier, police searched the home of a South Korean journalist.

And finally, there were more questions – but no answers from Beijing – about why an internationally recognized AIDS activist disappeared last week into state custody.

These were separate incidents that in different ways illustrate the government's unpredictable level of tolerance for dissent or challenge to its authority.

While there have been no overt signals from the government that some kind of newly coordinated crackdown on expression is under way, China watchers suspect there has been a general battening down of controls in advance of the Communist Party's five-year congress in November.

Beyond that, dissecting the motives of a government that does not answer directly to the public is not possible, and diplomats often speculate that China does not always act according to one vision. Hard-liners and moderates may disagree on what constitutes a threat to government authority.

Experts said the decision to block the Chinese-and English-language Google search engine sites fits with government policy to rein in the power of the Internet.

Although the World Wide Web represents an extraordinary tool for business, technology and education, it terrifies the Communist Party by allowing for the free flow of ideas.

In the past year, the government has taken greater steps to maintain control by developing an Internet police force to block information considered to be objectionable and to keep closer track of users.

This summer, in the aftermath of a fire at an Internet cafe in Beijing, it closed thousands of such centers around the country, reducing the number in the capital from more than 2,000 to about 30. Those that reopened require users to register their names and government identification numbers.

According to a Chinese Internet news item yesterday that apparently was deleted hours later, U.S.-based Google was banned because it gave computer users access to pornography, other sensitive material and information about superstitions, a reference to the banned Falun Gong spiritual movement.

Some Internet users raised questions about the government's ability to control the flow of information, by posting critical messages on Web sites. They also shared tricks for circumventing the ban by accessing Google via alternate Web addresses in China.
-----

[Tim]

... in response to China slowly squeezing internet access., posted by The Walker on Sep 6, 2002

In the experiences shared by members of my group, the banning of certain websites seems to come and go. For example, Yahoo Groups was banned a few months ago, but now it's open again. The banning also appears to be inconsistent among the different ISP companies operating in China. A user in Beijing may find access to the NY Times blocked, but it might be accessible for a user in Shenzhen.

The Chinese government has decided to "police" the internet access from inside their country by placing the burden on the internet service provider companies. There was a test case recently where the PRC government arrested and convicted a guy who ran an ISP company. All he did was fail to block some websites on the governments list. This is a subtle and effective strategy; by holding the ISP companies responsible they cut down dramatically the number of choke points they have to monitor.

I still think they (the PRC government) are fighting a losing battle in trying to police the net, but time will tell.

Don, as far as the PRC causing trouble, I don't think it will be in the form of invading Taiwan. Don't forget one thing - they are far more terrified of us (USA) than we are of them. You above all people know how unbalanced the scales are as far as military power. I'm talking technology, not manpower.

The PRC is even more stunned, awed, and petrified of us after 9/11. Why ? Easy. The speed in which we projected our military power into Afganistan and neutralized the
situation really shook them up. It's one thing for them to intellectually know that the USA has military technology and power, but to actually see it wielded with such effect and resolution is a whole different matter. Their respect for and fear of us was renewed, although to save face they will never admit it publicly. IMHO they won't cross certain lines.

Regards, Tim

[The Walker]

... in response to Re: China slowly squeezing internet acce..., posted by Tim on Sep 6, 2002


Probably. I said "sabre rattling", not invasion. And I do know the Chinese military very well indeed. But if Taiwan were to out and out declare independence China would have to act to save face. They would count on a short, overwhelming invasion with massive air prep and missiles all over the place. Hopefully (their case) the US fleet is not in the area at the time. They want to load the transport ships and send the airborne troops, counting on seizing the island quickly and making it too expensive for the US to kick them off. They could also count on the US being busy elsewhere and unable to give China their undivided attention. Say, talking North Korea into making a demonstration in force along the border with South Korea? That's what I'd do, and they are not stupid.

Would the US try and kick them off if they were already in control? Don't know. Doubtful.

But so long as Taiwan doesn't have suicidal tendencies they PROBABLY won't jump.

I was talking of trouble in the less-than-out-and-out-war sense. Roughing up foreigners, cracking down on Hong Kong (which they have been doing slowly, despite their promises). Rounding up dissidents or whomever has gotten on their crap list for whatever reason. Bumping a few more airplanes. Firing missiles short of Taiwan or even over Taiwan. The regular Tiannamin (sp?) Square treatment.

And sending the forces we did to Afghanistan, and sending enough power to repel an invasion, or worse, to counter-invade defenders in place, are two VERY different things. In Afghanistan, we never had in place the US forces to oust the Taliban by ourselves. And China is no ragtag Taliban. Could they withstand the undivided attentions of the US? No, is the short answer. But can they make it too expensive for the US to go all the way? Yep. Sure can. They have to do it just right, though. And the native Taiwanese army will have much to say about it.

Don

[Bear]

... in response to China slowly squeezing internet access., posted by The Walker on Sep 6, 2002

I guy checking has found over a hundred sights so far that are blocked including most of the news centers.

Bear and Honey

[NateD]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002

Hey Guys,

I just thought I'd post a slight update on what things have been happening in my neck of the woods...and since it was discussed a bit a while back, I thought I'd also contribute on why I myself (at a mere 22 years of age) am already seriously considering this route.

First, for things here: as some of you may remember, I had to take the GRE last July, and I'm happy to say that I did well enough that I'm not going to worry about taking it again.  That's always a BIG plus to doing well enough on a test the first time around  Next week, OU starts back up on me (ah, yes, the summer is gone already), so my parents and I will be fully moving me into my apartment at OU this coming Sunday.  So yeah, I've been a pretty busy fellow as of late (had to do some last minute scheduling changes for work today, as my supervisor's schedule didn't match my original planned schedule for my training period at the library.  Oh, well--gotta roll with life, I think.

Now, why am I considering this route?  There is, I'll be the first to admit, a stereotype about those of us who consider this (heck, my own grandmother, after I told her I might someday marry a Filipina or a Japanese, said "Why?  They eat rice and all that other stuff..."  In other words, they weren't American.  I love my grandmother dearly, but we do have differing views.  But I don't think that I fit into this stereotype (I doubt any of us do); I am not a loser in any sense of the word.

I suppose that my reason for doing this is fairly broad.  First, there are values: on the vast majority of the Filipina personals I've read, they talk about their strong beliefs in God, their love of family, and their want for happy, healthy family someday--the exact same things I believe in and want.  Moreover, I find them extremely attractive.

Now, am I completely throwing AW's out of the loop?  No.  There are a great many AW personals I read in which they say they want a man who will lavish them with the money they deserve (in which case I find myself thinking, you wouldn't like me at all, lady).  But there are also quite a few personals I've found for women who sound like pretty good, decent women.  Will I write to them as well.  Why not?  At this stage in my life, I don't see a reason to close off any avenue to me just yet.

Take care all,
NateD

[Kreeger]

... in response to Things here, posted by NateD on Sep 6, 2002

I am probably the next youngest poster on this board (next to you) and I don't think we as young(er) men need to justify our reasons for choosing this route... I don't think ANY of us, for that matter, need to... really. People are people and it doesn't matter if she lives next-door to you or 10,000 miles from you... the only difference is the cultures. That's how I see it and that's how I explain it to others who are curious about why I have chosen a foreign woman for marriage. I am a relatively attractive person (so I'm told) and I often get asked the "are you single" question at work. When I say that I am engaged to a girl in the Philippines, I usually get the types of questions that we all know... "why?" or "what's wrong with the women here?", etc. The way I see it is... what is the difference in responding to a personal ad that was placed by a Filipina (or even an AW) who lives in the U.S., or a woman that just happens to be from another country and is still living there? ONLY DISTANCE. There is a stigma that has accompanied this lifestyle that we choose, and I am sick of it.

You wrote:

"I suppose that my reason for doing this is fairly broad. First, there are values: on the vast majority of the Filipina personals I've read, they talk about their strong beliefs in God, their love of family, and their want for happy, healthy family someday--the exact same things I believe in and want. Moreover, I find them extremely attractive." That, in a nutshell, is why I have chosen to marry a Filipina.... mainly the attractive part. Caucasion women just aren't my preference. Some guys like vanilla ice cream... I just happen to like mocha...

Joe

[equitis]

... in response to Nate..., posted by Kreeger on Sep 6, 2002

Hello Nate and Kreeger,

 This is a discussion point on many (fil-west)forums.You guys have hit the right answer I believe.It does not matter how you met.What matters is the Love you have for the woman you marry.I would also like to add how hypocritical it seems for western culture to look down on this when they have shows like,"Who wants to marry a millionaire""bachelor" and "bachlorette" "temptation island",the list goes on and on.

Equitis

[kevin]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002


I'm stunned.  I spoke my mind but this is the treatment I get from telling how I felt about a very terrible situation, but unfortunately I did not have to go through it myself.

I'm really surprised, Jay.  I thought you were my friend.   Perhaps this was just a gross misunderstanding.  When I made that post in regards to Zebson's, I did not think of your situation, which seemingly unusual, turned out for the better.

Perhaps I'd be better off with AW's, gays, or simply a hermit.  According to you guys, I obviously can't be any good to a sweet, innocent Filipina no matter what.

Like it or not, I too am trying to move on.  Forget it.  I've got to keep my cool.  I could throw books, etc. at my computer or out the window and break glass!!!!!

[greg]

... in response to On a personal note . . ., posted by kevin on Sep 6, 2002

You cannot win no popuarity contest on PL. As long as You talk about what they want to hear, Your gonna be alright. Patrick gave us the right to talk about whatever as long as we aren't cussing or insulting other Posters. Btw, Jay did speak the truth..Filipinas feel much pain reading Negative Generalizing against their country and people, makes them very angry. I have many Filipina friends on both Mag and PL that EM me talking about how Negatives make them mad(they scold me in a sweet way lol). As I said before, Filipinas in RP has never did me wrong, only one Pinay, so It's wrong to Generalize against all Filipinas becuz of our own involvement with the wrong Pinays..Keep in mind, there are many Filipina Lurkers that read on PL daily. Later..greg

[kevin]

... in response to Hi Kevin, posted by greg on Sep 6, 2002


Yes I can understand why some pinay lurkers might have angry feelings about what's associated with courtship in their country.  If rightfully, because the innocent are being portrayed in the wrong light.  If wrongfully, because they're covering butts.  Please note that I'm not directing disdain at anybody who I don't beleive to deserve it.

On a similar note, us men who seek brides abroad hate being portrayed as women traffickers, sex abusers, etc.  Think about that.  Well that's almost what mainstream America, more specifically organizations like NOW, think of us men.  That makes me uncomfortable in the same light.  Hey, Bear has even endured a degree of uninhibited discrimination (in the workplace and at the campground) simply because of the lifestyle he chose.  Well, like you and I, he's got the right to persuit of happiness.

- Kevin

[madmal]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002

A little 'joke' my sister sent me:
(I'm not really sure if it's a joke though)

There was this "Husband Shopping Centre" where a woman could go to choose
from among many men, her husband.

It was laid out in five floors, with the men increasing in positive
attributes as you ascended up the floors.

The only rule was that once you opened the door to any floor you must
choose a man from that floor, and if you went up a floor you couldn't go
back down except to leave the place.

So, a couple of girls go to the place to find men ...
First floor, the door has a sign saying "These men have jobs and love
kids."

The women read the sign and say "Well that's better than not having jobs,
or not loving kids, but I wonder what's further up?"
So up they go.

Second floor, the door says "These men have high paying jobs, love kids
and are extremely good looking."
"Hmmm," say the girls. "But we wonder what's further up?"

Third floor: "These men have high paying jobs, are extremely good
looking, love kids and help with the housework."
"Wow!" say the women. "Very tempting!!! But, there's more further up!"
And up they go.

Fourth floor: "These men have high paying jobs, love kids, are extremely
good looking, help with the housework, and have a strong romantic streak."
"Oh, mercy me. But just think what must be awaiting us further on!"
So up to the fifth floor they go.

The sign on that door said: "This floor is just to prove that women are
impossible to please."

Mal

[ScottFA]

... in response to venting, posted by kevin on Sep 7, 2002

Hello,

Here's a new Reuter article on the phenomenon of western men seeking brides in Asia, specifically, in Thailand.  It really has nothing original to say and basically insinuates that such men are social misfits.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20020829/lf_nm/thailand_marriage_dc_1

--Scott

[Dave H]

... in response to Article on Intern'l Marriage Biz in Thai..., posted by ScottFA on Sep 5, 2002

Hey Scott,

You could tell where that article was going after the second sentence. "English dentist Ken Moylan came to Thailand looking for a wife. It took two hours to find her."

Then they quote Ken, "The first day I went out with Wan, she came back to my hotel and hung all my clothes up and tidied the room. I thought it was marvelous," he said. "I knew then there was something special." I guess Ken has never heard of a house keeper.

I was especially happy that a bride was found for the man suffering with post-traumatic stress disorder. =8oO

But, I would have to agree that any man that says 'Give me a lady, I want to get married now.' is a social misfit. They belong on one of those American marrige shows like "Who Wants To Marry A Millionaire?"

Dave H.