Lori, a respectful question for you and Thai

[The Walker]

Is Thai bitter about the Viet Nam war, bitter about Americans (GIs that is)? Did he lose relatives, or was he from the south?

I am thinking of possibly making a trip back there in a few years, your descriptions have moved me. But I had rather a large "body count" (forgive me for the term) and I was quite notorious. I was one of the Americans who had a bounty on my head. Equivalent to three month's pay for an industrial worker in Hanoi. I still have one of the "wanted" posters in my collection.

I don't want to go back and have trouble. Could I have your and Thai's view on this?

-Don

[madmal]

... in response to Lori, a respectful question for you and ..., posted by The Walker on Jun 3, 2002

Hi Don,
I have met many Vietnam veterans in my visits to Vietnam. And know quite a few here in Australia. (Seems the boys from the country towns were happy to enlist).

While some of the guys who have returned have experienced considerable anxiety before their trips and on arriving in Vietnam, they all seem to exorcise some of their demons.

There are two in particular I have made friends with. They have both had serious psychological problems since returning to Australia after service.  A visit to Vietnam has significantly improved their mental state.
It is interesting that both said the same thing to me:
"When I got to Vietnam I found the people to be friendly and hold no animosity. I realised that my problems weren't with the Vietnamese people. My problem was with the Australian people that treated me so badly when I returned"

With regard to your notoriety...
I have sat next to 3 men on my various flights to Vietnam who were South Vietnamese soldiers, chopper pilots, student agitators who held the same fears.  They were literally shaking as they got off the plane. I have stayed in contact with two of them and they report having had no problems.
I have a friend (lives 2 houses away) who fled Vietnam 20 years ago. His wife really wants to return to visit, but he is terrified that he will be arrested. He was (and still is) very active in the movement by overseas Vietnamese to try to (eventually) wrest control of Vietnam back to the people.

I wouldn't be too concerned about being identified as a wanted man. The government would rather just take your hard currency.

It's no secret that I love Vietnam and its people.
I think you should take the opportunity to see this country in a different light.

The government may be communist, but Vietnam has a truly capitalist heart.

Mal

[MsDuong]

... in response to Lori, a respectful question for you and ..., posted by The Walker on Jun 3, 2002

Hello Don,

First of all, I want to say that I do have the deepest respect for The vietnam Vets. My Father is a Vet. I think the way that the United States treated it's own men after the war was one of the worst, most shameful parts of our history.My Father could not even get a cab when he returned.
The war also affected me. Of course I can not compare to what you or my father experienced. But after the war, my father was busy fighting his own demons to deal with me. Hence ,we have only had a releationship now for about 4 years.
When I first started writing Thai, I wanted to clear up things about the war such my father being a vet. I wanted to know his feelings on it. He said that is the past and we should not worry about it. He is from the south, born in 1970. So, he was pretty young when Saigon fell. He is third of the youngest out of 11 brothers and sisters. None of them are bitter people, just "happy go lucky" all the time I was there.
I did run into a couple who toured vietnam last year. They went to Hanoi, and said the people are also VERY friendly. Did you see President Clintons reception when he went. It was awsome. I ate at the resraunt he ate at, and it is quite famous now. So, they do like Americans. Of course, like any place you will probably find American haters.

I think the first thing you should do, is ask yourself "why" you want to go back. It's not the same Vietnam you remeber it to be. It's a beautiful country with a very rich buddhist culture. Here is a link to a few stories of men who went back:

http://grunt.space.swri.edu/tripsbk.htm
I hope this helps.
btw--when I told My father about Thai, the first thing he asked is "Is he north or south". My answer, (to his relief, I think) was the south.
Goo"d" Luck, Lori

[The Walker]

... in response to Re: Lori, a respectful question for you ..., posted by MsDuong on Jun 3, 2002

Thanks. Just wanted to be sure I wasn't still on some "wanted" list somewhere.

As for why I want to eventually go back, I have seen the nation at war and also 6 months after it fell to the North. I saw the forced "repatriations" and "retraining" labor camps, the outright executions and tortures. I want to see if they healed their internal wounds. And I want to see the nation at peace, sort of like vets going back to Paris or Britain or Berlin or Tokyo 20 or 30 years after WWII. They only saw it torn apart by war and death, and they, and I, want to see the nation in its more or less "natural" state.

I don't need to heal. I don't get PTSD. I am a warrior of the Blackfoot Nation and proud of my service. But those there may still hold grudges. Those my age. I bear them no malice, we tried to kill each other and I won. They had their chances at me. It is the fortunes of war. But I did lose my youth there, I aged beyond my years and it took me 10 years to catch up to myself. Maybe I am afraid that I will recognize nothing, and that the deaths of so many on both sides was for naught. Or that I will recognize too much, and the deaths were still for naught. But I am willing to take the chance. From your descriptions and those of others, I think we actually won in the long run. HCM city (Sai Gon to me) is much more like capitalism than communism, more like Taiwan than Mainland China. Free enterprise.

I am curious to see how it all turned out. I especially want to visit Ha Noi.

Again, thank you.

-Don

[Jeff S]

... in response to Re: Re: Lori, a respectful question for ..., posted by The Walker on Jun 3, 2002

Healing implies injury. While some may run around gnashing their teeth in grief, that is certainly not the case for most.

Had a fascinating conversation once with an old Japanese guy in Kobe who was building and training in kaiten (the two man kamikaze submarines) for the coming Japanese mainland invasion by the US. At that time my father was training in the Philippines for that invasion himself. Both credited their lives to the dropping of the bomb. I, for one am sure glad they never met the way they were planning.

I think you'll find ex NVA just as eager to buy you a beer as you to buy them one.

- Jeff S.

[MsDuong]

... in response to Re: Re: Lori, a respectful question for ..., posted by The Walker on Jun 3, 2002

What is a worrior of the Blackfoot Nation?

[The Walker]

... in response to Don-, posted by MsDuong on Jun 5, 2002

Sorry, I forget not everyone remembers or was here for mine and Vicky's courtship and weddings. A lot of this was explained back then.

I am a member of the Blackfoot Tribe, (North American Indian/Native American, take your pick, I'm not fussy). I am of both the Bear and the Wolf clans within the tribe. I have also passed the tests to enter into manhood and as a warrior. My service in the Armed Forces and my scars and coupe count place me pretty high in the ranks.

Sorry again. The counting of coupe (pronounced coo) is a method of scoring used by Indian warriors. It used to be that each warrior carried a coupe stick, a rather harmless short stick, decorated, to use to strike an enemy. If you got close enough to use a coupe stick on your enemy and good enough to strike him and survive, you got "points". When you strike him with the stick you "counted coupe" on him. Of course you also got recognition for wounding or killing him, and scalps were the ultimate scorecard.

In modern warfare, you seldom get to count coupe using non-lethal means. I did so on the Vietnamese warrior when I butt-stroked him and he got away, and of course it was forbidden to take scalps or anything of the sort from the dead. But the tribe and the warriors have had to adjust their ways, and I am a well-ranked warrior.

Barbaric? Perhaps. But it is our way, and who knows? Perhaps the cult of the warrior may make a comeback. If we as a species disintigrate into warring clans again, it is good to keep the old skills alive for the good of the species. Like making fire with a buffalo chip. ;-)

-Don

[Dave H]

... in response to Re: Re: Lori, a respectful question for ..., posted by The Walker on Jun 3, 2002

Hi Don,

Were their deaths for naught? Only a higher power knows the design of things. I think going back, would be good for healing. Sort of like what is now going on at the WTC, except your monument is thousands of miles away from where the grief occured. I read of some vets who had visited and paid money to fire some of the same AK-47s that had once been used against them. It seemed to bring them some peace and closure.

I recently caught the tail end of a documentary on Vietnam. Wish I could remember the name. The moderator asked a cab driver (I beieve in Ha Noi) why he and everyone were so friendly to the Americans that were present and didn't resent us after the war. The cab driver basically replied that they had fought the Chinese for over a thousand years, the French for a hundred, and the US for just over ten years. To them, it was a rather insignificant period of time, when viewed in perspective of Vietnam's history. Quite different from the various American viewpoints on the Vietnam War.

Did they at least do a good likeness on your "wanted" poster? LOL I've had several bounties on my head over the years, but they never took the time to draw up a poster. ( I would love to have had one framed and hanging on my library wall. )))

Dave H.

[The Walker]

... in response to Perhaps no malice is returned..., posted by Dave H on Jun 3, 2002

Vicky's mom said to tell everyone "Hello". My phone bill is awesome, but it keeps my wife happy. Email is nice but there is nothing like talking to momma at three miles a minute I guess.

Yeah, they had a good likeness. Whomever drew it should be doing portraits. It was obviously a pencil sketch that they used for the poster, but it was good. Down to the scar on my face.  Back then that size of a bounty on your head was one heck of a backhanded compliment. Several thousand Piasters. A young fortune to a VC guerilla. It was worth them taking a lot of risks to get it, but they all missed, obvously. I'd like to find out who did that sketch and have them do another, recent sketch. He/she was really GOOD.

I'd also like to find a few old VC and NVA that were in the same actions I was in, on the other side, and get their perspective on things. I think it would be interesting to sit and chew the fat with an old enemy over a few beers. I'd buy. I'd REALLY like to meet the man that gave me one scar if he lived through the war. It was one he-ll of an action. BIG Fighting. He got under my guard and caught me in the leg with his bayonet. I dropped him with a horizontal butt stroke from my M-14 (I never carried a sniper rifle on patrol or team actions) but I was too busy to finish him off. By the time it was over he had obviously regained consciousness and gotten away, but the two fellows that got my attention away from him weren't so lucky. He was one of a VERY few men or women that got my personal attention that lived.

I guess I'd just like to sit with my old enemies and tell stories of the war for a few hours or days. Break bread together, get drunk together. I always respected my enemies, the ones that did not torture or anything. The fighters. Maybe find some of my old allies too, and get everyone together for a drunken barbeque. I'd pay. It would be worth it. I have talked to former Russian and Chinese officers I have fought against, and most other nationalities. But I have never had the chance for the Vietnamese. They were tough and resourceful fighters. Remember that scene in 'Full Metal Jacket' where Animal Mother said (speaking of a dead VC), that "These are the finest people we shall ever know"? He was right. A tough enemy eventually makes a better friend than a shifty ally.

-Don