Anyone have a listing of black lists?

[Frank O]

I need to report my wife to the blacklists to avoid her doing to other men what she tried to do with me. Now that she's gone I've found out so MANY other things that were going on both prior to her arrival & after. I would like a listing of as many to post her out there.

[Scaught]

... in response to Anyone have a listing of black lists?, posted by Frank O on Jun 11, 2005

[This message has been edited by Scaught]

Why not just list the five or six goods ones on a "Good Gal List", and save a lot of time and effort? We'll assume the worst about the rest. Everyone not on the good list will be assumed to be a criminal in training.

[Streetwise]

... in response to Anyone have a listing of black lists?, posted by Frank O on Jun 11, 2005

It's pretty nauseating when the full picture starts to emerge, and well done for helping to save someone else's hide. Reporting internet scammers is of little value as they can soon switch identity, but this is an example of where anti-scam websites come into their own. Once you've done your duty and reported it, I suggest you put it behind you and move on, as every minute you spend dwelling on it represents another chunk she'll have bitten out of you. Cut your losses and be satisfied that your chances of ultimate success are the greater; you may not be her first victim and you probably won't be her last, but from what I've seen, those who go through life spreading pain are not usually capable of experiencing true happiness themselves.

[Felinessa]

... in response to www.antiscam.org, posted by Streetwise on Jun 11, 2005

If you think you're dealing with a scammer, it might be a good idea to show the letters and pictures to a female friend or relative.  While I was looking through the profiles on Antiscam, it was blatantly obvious to me that some use fake pictures.  You can tell if a picture is of a professional model by a professional photographer because there are certain poses, a certain way of flaunting what the model is wearing, of emphasizing features, etc, which are quite common in fashion magazines.  Even the prettiest women aren't born with model mannerisms.  Also, a lot of these pictures are very high quality - nothing that a girl making under 100 bucks a month could afford (photographer, lighting, professional make-up, stage props and scenery, digital enhancement, etc).  Those are not pics taken at the Russian equivalent of Sears.  I don't know if there is a way yet to run a picture through a search engine, but that might be a good thing to start with.  If not, ask a well-intentioned woman friend (who should also be fashion-savvy).  I think her 'scamdar' would be flashing warnings long before yours since she has no emotional investment.

[lawcom]

... in response to Re: www.antiscam.org, posted by Felinessa on Jun 12, 2005

A professional (or semi-professional) quality picture is not necessarily a bad sign.  I've been to some of these small towns in Russia and Ukraine and I've found (1) just about every girl who is pretty seems to think she can be a model (and "modeling schools" are prevalent and cheap for the girls); and (2) there always seems to be a photographer who is willing to do the photos on the cheap.  I met a professional photographer in Kherson who had photographed most of the girls in town in his studio and he even offered to introduce me to some of the girls (I had already met some of them).  I also met a girl from Penza whose uncle was an amateur hobbyist photographer and he made some amazing professional quality type pics of his niece.  When I met her in Moscow she was just as pretty as her pictures.  Its fine to be interested in and meet with girls who have nice and pretty and professional quality photos.  As FrankO is now aware, there are SO many other clues other than just good letters and sexy photos...

[Streetwise]

... in response to good photos-not bad, posted by lawcom on Jun 13, 2005

Nothing wrong with sexed-up professional pictures, as long as they are not the sole image on which you are prepared to make a long and expensive journey. Great to have a some glamour shots but if you care at all about how she looks (and if you don't, that's cool) make sure you also see some some natural ones, without special lighting, make-up, image-softening techniques etc. I can also think of some occasions where an acquaintance turned out just like the professional photos; and I can think of many occasions when she looked like another person entirely. This is going to sound bad I know, but those who are more challenged in the looks department will probably make a several photos, and therefore the ones they post may well be the ones that look least like them. Believe me, I've been there!!

Travelling to the FSU is expensive, and time consuming. You owe it to yourself to do all that is reasonably possible to avoid a disaster upon meeting. That "Oh sh**" feeling is not good for either party.

[Ray]

... in response to Re: good photos-not bad, posted by Streetwise on Jun 13, 2005

I agree wholeheartedly. I guess we all tend to put our best foot forward when first corresponding with a prospective mate. But hiding all or most of our faults, whether it be our appearance, habits, or character flaws, only sets us up for that “Oh Shit” feeling that you mentioned when we finally do meet in person.

Long distance correspondence, whether by snail mail or electronic means, does make it easier for us to project a distorted image of ourselves. I think it’s very important for both parties to be as open and honest as possible BEFORE the relationship gets serious, or you are leaving yourselves open for some big disappointments down the road.

My wife isn’t from the FSU, but I think the same principles apply anywhere. I guess we did things a little differently than most. We were “introduced” by a mutual acquaintance and corresponded for a couple of months without exchanging photos. I think it gave us a chance to get to know each other a little and start developing a friendship without the distraction or infatuation with a photograph. It worked for us and I was pleasantly surprised when I finally saw her photo. Actually, neither of us sent our best photos initially. Early on in our relationship, we also agreed to disclose our faults and bad habits. A few things that we told each other may likely have scared one or both of us off before we ever got to know each other, but we already had the basics of a friendship going by then so we kept up the communication. Eventually, we developed deeper feelings for each other but with a good understanding of who we were becoming involved with. When I finally stepped off of the plane, neither one of us had that “Oh Shit” feeling and we felt extremely comfortable together.

I think too many guys (and gals) put too much emphasis on that photo when they are choosing who to communicate with initially. Making physical appearance your number one priority is dangerous when choosing a mate, but that’s just my personal opinion.

Ray

[Frank O]

... in response to Excellent Point, posted by Ray on Jun 13, 2005

I agree when I first received pics from my wife they were NOT flattering pics. They were normal average pics. NOTHING like the model pics of some girls. I wondered about her appearance but in person all that changed. Pics don't do her justice.
As for putting your best foot forward I always try to put my negatives up front. I figure if someone likes me AFTER all that then we have a chance. I remember Jack even telling me I was screwing up because my pics were in his opinion NOT good. Even then I received well over 60 responses easily. I mentioned I am a musician NOT a doctor or an atty, I'm NOT affluent just average middle class a America. Of course I also mentioned both my homes were paid for & clear & so was my car so basically all my income was spending money (Other than retirement accounts). What I'm saying is I did not portray myself as something I was not. What's the point?! I mean if your putting up a front they will KNOW so let's just get the crap out of the way up front.

[Ryan]

... in response to Re: Excellent Point, posted by Frank O on Jun 14, 2005

TO mention that both your homes are paid for etc.  This in my view is asking for trouble.  Why start a relationship talking about money or finances or any of that garbage.  It's my opinion but I just don't like taking or mentioning any of that stuff just talk about who your are and what you like the other  will no bought come later.  My opion is to make it as later a possible...

Good luck

[Ray]

... in response to One Issue that stands out for me....., posted by Ryan on Jun 14, 2005

:-)

[Felinessa]

... in response to Excellent Point, posted by Ray on Jun 13, 2005

I whole-heartedly agree with you, Ray, especially if we're talking about a long-term relationship, which is supposed to last longer than the looks themselves.  Now physical chemistry is important, but, as we all probably discover sooner or later, chemistry pays little heed to our wish-lists.  On paper, I was never attracted to shorter men (which severely limited my choices, given that I'm 5'9 plus heels).  In reality, my ex was 4 inches shorter (and we broke up because he was a 35-year old baby, not because of physical incompatibilities).  So photos can be deceiving in more than one way - someone who may not spark a lot of interest two-dimensionally could have deliciously compatible pheromones otherwise, especially if paired with a charming personality.

Going back to the scammers' pictures, I imagine you guys dealt with the really smart ones.  The pictures I saw on Antiscam were blatantly fake to me.  Borrow back issues of Cosmopolitan, Glamour, and Marie Claire and look at the pictures.  You'll see a pattern emerging.  But probably these are the really stupid ones who got caught.

Oh, and a "cute" moment.  Who on earth would be idiotic enough to post Lucretia Casta's pictures??? What's next, Angelina Jolie??

Oh, and if you want to avoid some "oh, Shit!" moments, send them a webcam.  They start at 30 CAN around here and the quality is quite good.  That's a small investment that can go a long way.

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: www.antiscam.org, posted by Felinessa on Jun 12, 2005

The best scammers will use regular snapshots of real girls...nothing too fancy at all.

[Streetwise]

... in response to Re: www.antiscam.org, posted by Felinessa on Jun 12, 2005

I agree, internet scammers usually use high quality professional eye-catching photos. I have even heard that some of the pics are not necessarity Russian, they have been downloaded from who-knows-where. But I would also add that some scammers also use natural photos, and are therefore able to send a succession of candid-looking photos in various situations/outfits over a period of correspondence, giving the impression that the girl is genuine. I was correspinding with a girl from Kazan for a few weeks who did just that, and some of the photos were slightly out of focus etc, giving them an authentic feel. One of them even looked like a self-photo from a mobile phone. Then she decided our first meeting should be in my country and started making enquiries with a local travel agent to get prices for me, ignoring my suggestion that it was in her own best interests to meet on her home turf. She even gave me the details of the travel agent in Kazan, and believe it or not it actually existed, and had a website; at that point I could have been hooked, but sending money is against rule number one, and sure enough when I called them, they knew nothing about her. So then I checked out her street address and found that the house numbers ended at least 20 short of the number she have me. End of story!
But getting back to the topic, yes, steer clear of the prodessional photos for two reasos; one, they may be scammers, and two, if they are genuine (whilst I accepr that beauty is only skin deep) they will bear little resemblance to the girl herself when you meet her (lighting, make-up, etc.) I've been there, too:)))

[Frank O]

... in response to www.antiscam.org, posted by Streetwise on Jun 11, 2005

Yes, now that I'm gone I'm hearing from my friends she hung out with all the stuff she'd say & DO. I'm glad I didn't shell out the $$ she wanted & sent her home packing when I did. I had to emotionally detach myself to pull it off. The only thing I regret is my friends not telling me the full extent till AFTER she was gone or she would have been gone MUCH MUCH sooner.

[Scaught]

... in response to Thanks , posted by Frank O on Jun 11, 2005

Frank: I am very sorry what happened. However, you should realize how lucky you are. If she stayed a bit longer and learned the ropes, you could've been thrown into prison on false charges. When abuse is alleged, it is simply her words against yours-- no preponderance of the evidence is required for this kind of charge! They err on the side of caution-- yes, her side. And when she moves into a shelter because she "fears for her life"-- (really, just for sympathy from the judge) you hardly will have a chance. If you have ten grand for a decent lawyer, you might see the light of day again, someday, but you will have forgotten how to even play a barre chord (Frank's a guitarist).

You dodged not a bullet but a full metal jacket, baby. I want to rub your head for luck. You are the fortunate one. This is a great success story compared to most.

The wise will learn from this, most will fare much, much worse!

Believe me, her age was not a factor-- her address was all a reasonable person needed to know what was coming.