Last minute road block (Urgent)

[Davej]

[This message has been edited by Davej]

Previet, my wife in Kiev has recieved her Green Card.  Plane ticket is set.  We were also married in Kiev.  Anyways, apparently there is some document your supposed to fill out before leaving the country.  Saying your going to leave and live abroad.  I don't have any exact document #'s.  Anyways, some people say you need this.  Some people are saying you dont.  My question is, my wife has her Green Card in hand, a plane ticket...is this necessary?  The 'official' lady said it can take 3 months to file.  My attorneys advise its not necessary.  Please help me out, stress abound!  I hope somebody has had some experience with this.  Thanks a mill,

dave

[T P Cornholio]

... in response to Last minute road block (Urgent), posted by Davej on May 20, 2005

The PMZh stamp is a holdover from Communist bureaucracy to be notifed that a person is emmigrating, this allowed the government to reallocate utilities such as phone lines, and even apartments.  Unfortunately, it was also perceived as some kind of "permission" slip in the passport.  It only was in the sense that the government was assured they had gotten back a hold on their stuff.

The catch is/was, that if a person is leaving on a K-1 visa that they are technically not emmigrating, and could actually end up returning after 90 days.  So, one would not necessarily want the PMZh stamp, but officials could give aggro for not having it (considering it as "permission" to leave).  If you were married in Kyiv and are taking a different route than the K-1 visa, you may want to go the VVIR office and take care of this (if they even do it anymore, they may tell you to forget about it).

The upshot is, that it's really not necessary and no one pays much attention to it anymore. Only occasionally, some a-hole offical tries to use the lack of this stamp to prompt a bribe (tell them to get lost).

[Ray]

... in response to Last minute road block (Urgent), posted by Davej on May 20, 2005

Dave,

Are you referring to a U.S. immigration document? It sounded from your post that you might possibly be referring to the Advance Parole Travel Document issued by CIS. In the past, it could sometimes take 2-3 months or more for approval depending on where it was filed.

As a Green Card holder, she does not need the Travel Document UNLESS she intends to stay out of the country for more than one year. After a year outside the U.S., it is assumed that she has abandoned her residency and she will not be allowed back in without additional paperwork and expense, unless she has a previously issued Re-Entry Permit.

I wasn’t sure what you meant by “live abroad” but any stay of less than a year is usually no problem as far as getting back in to the U.S.  The Travel Document application form is I-131.

You can read more here:

http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/travdoc.htm#file

Ray

[LP]

... in response to Advance Parole???, posted by Ray on May 20, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]

... Unless you're specifically into Ukrainian chix this won't be familair to you Ray. He's talking about a problem that sometimes happens on the Ukrainian side when leaving the country regarding docs she should have to show she previously left to live abroad in the US or another country. I'll leave others to elaborate but it's not our side that's the problem, he's talking about an issue on the Ukrainain end.

He shouldn't have a problem and if he does there are ways around it. As stated, she can go via Russia or he can grease the wheel in Kiev, if you get my drift.

[Davej]

... in response to No...., posted by LP on May 20, 2005

How much grease need be applied? roughly? 100-200?USD

[LP]

... in response to Re: No...., posted by Davej on May 21, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]

...but I would think 100 clams would easily cover it. Be careful though, be sure offer it as a "fine" and accept you did "wrong". It may not be right  but it'll solve the problem and that's all you care about. Or you can hold your ground and see if they back down. Either way, let us know what happened.

[Davej]

... in response to I dunno....., posted by LP on May 21, 2005

According to what everybody else is telling me, this shouldn't even come into play.  However, suppose it never hurts to prepare for all possible outcomes.  These guys behind the booths at passport control, never strike me as men who will accept a bribe.  Should be interesting if it comes to compensating for the 'mistake we made'.

[LP]

... in response to Re: I dunno....., posted by Davej on May 22, 2005

..The others are right, it shouldn't even be an issue. I'm not saying you should offer a bribe outright, I'm saying if you're not getting anywhere you may want to innocently ask if there is a fine. Might be better to stand your ground and wait until they mention it but if they don't...

Used to be in the old days the authorities would cruise the airport for foreigners like a shark looking for a meal. It's gotten much better but old habits die hard. In the end they really don't want to deal with you past a certain point and anyone who makes waves is usually more interested in a few bux than enforcing some archaic regulation.  

Pissing them off is a different story altogether so remain respectful. Pulling the "Hey, I'm an American" or some other such crap will flush your chances quicker than an embryo on prom night, especially these days. And remember, although they don't say much about it the majority of Ukrainians aren't exactly big fans of MOB.

Good luck and let us know how it pans out. If there really is an increasing trend to enforce this it's important others learn of it.

[Davej]

... in response to Re: I dunno....., posted by LP on May 22, 2005

Everything went smooth.  Wife is here, things are great.  Got a beautiful wife, looking forward to a beautiful life.  

-Funny about the customs in UA, asking about this form we mentioned above.  The lady in customs asked her, 'Why are you leaving UA?'.  My wife said 'To see my husband.'  Then the lady started to make quick chitchat.  Apparently, they are still loose about the rules of this paperwork, supposedly required for your spouse(s) to leave Ukraine.  Could have been luck of the draw, or a miracle.  All depends on what you believe.  

Dave

[Davej]

... in response to Re: I dunno....., posted by LP on May 22, 2005

[This message has been edited by Davej]

Will do.  Unfortunetly I'm not going to be able to accompany my wife as she leaves Borispol.  I told her about your advice, with the 'fine'.  Sounds good.  

Indeed it will be interesting to see if this is something UA is going to enforce (more).  With recent political changes made, one would think it would only become more lenient.  As far as being the guinnea pig, I'll keep everybody posted.

-oh one last thing.  Our attorney office in Moscow reminded her that her Green-Card is only for 6 months.  So UA can't actually prove she is going to 'permenantly' relocate anyways.  Ok enough chit chat, we'll know soon enough. 6AM UA time, Monday.
dave

[Ray]

... in response to No...., posted by LP on May 20, 2005

:-)

[Charles]

... in response to Last minute road block (Urgent), posted by Davej on May 20, 2005

It really depends who you talk to.  Technically, your wife is required to obtain the PMzh stamp in her passport.  This can be obtained either in Ukraine or through an embassy/consultate in the U.S., but there are a lot of documents required in order to obtain it and I suspect very few people ever attempt the process.  I looked at this several years ago and decided it was not worth the effort, and my wife has been able to return several times.  She will have no difficulty entering Ukraine but technically could be stopped upon departure without the stamp.  However, it appears that this has not been a problem in recent years so the risk is minimal.   If you're terribly concerned about it, have her return to the U.S. through Moscow.  She can enter Russia on her Ukrainian passport and then use her green card to board the plane in Moscow to the U.S.

[Davej]

... in response to Re: Last minute road block (Urgent), posted by Charles on May 20, 2005

Seems a lot of people take this 'minimal' risk.  Tough decision...We've asked the embassy, lots of people - most reply 'we don't know' - however, i appreciate your information, definitely nice to see there is a resolution through mother-russia, if needed.  appreciate it,

dave