Socials and Attire

[fathertime]

I am going to Odessa in a couple months through an agency.  Among their suggestions is a strong suggestion about wearing a suit during the socials.  I refuse to wear a suit and tie and will not bring one.  Will I be seen as an untouchable if I dress in a nice button down shirt and pants.  Normally at home I wear t-shirts and shorts I don't even know how to tie a tie. I can't stand formal attire.  What have you guys experienced with your women after bringing them to the states insofar as your choice in clothes? Has your woman insisted you dress more formally than you wanted to?
Thank you

[Oatmeal]

... in response to Socials and Attire, posted by fathertime on Jan 26, 2005

Speaking as a man married to a lady from Odessa, I can say with authority that a sense of style is very important to these ladies.

All ladies I have ever met in Russia or Ukraine have all expressed this sense of style as one of the most important factors in their life.

You can choose to dress as you please (i.e. more like you prefer at home) but you will certainly fall under the scrutinizing eye of the Ukrainian woman.  One of the most important items seems to be shoes.  They hold some special regard for quality of shoe ware in both men and women.  

I am not saying that you need to wear a suit and tie, actually my wife doesn't like that, but she prefers me to wear something with a sense of European style.

I can't tell you what the right choice for your own life is but beware that your wardrobe will be a point of contention in your marriage.

[wsbill]

... in response to Married to an Odessa lady, posted by Oatmeal on Jan 28, 2005

I think we're probably overload the guy.   Lets just let him go the way he wants to go and hopefully hear about his trip report.

Here's what Jack spring or fall tour of guys looked like.
http://www.firstdream.com/spring2005/pics2004fall1.shtml

[AnzoNevis]

... in response to Socials and Attire, posted by fathertime on Jan 26, 2005

As a fellow tour veteran (Cali, Panama City, Barranquilla, St. Pete), I can feel
your pain about a suit and tie. I am also tentatively planning on Odessa in the
Spring. And I'll be damned if I'm going to wear a tie. In fact, last time I was in
St. Pete, my date strongly suggested I remove the tie as soon as we left the
social (and it was a conservative, tasteful tie). But for the little bit of elegance
you give up with the suit and tie, you can make up for by spending a little
money on a couple of nice, high quality custom-made fitted shirts. Amazing
difference, especially with maybe a monogram on the French cuffs, for
instance. Some nice Italian shoes. Fitted slacks and Italian sport jacket. You'll
feel better and look a lot more stylish than in your a suit and Bloomie's tie.
Damn, it's cold. I'm ready for Odessa now.

Anzo

[MNKenr]

... in response to Socials and Attire, posted by fathertime on Jan 26, 2005

Hey there. Before i went over for my first visit to Odessa I think I wore a suit maybe 3 times in all my life. It was suggested to get a photo while wearing a  suit. I went out and bought a tailored suit for $150. I felt so out of place in that photo, but I did it. I also wore the suit to 4 party/socials. Outside the social I went to my normal attire (dockers/jeans and polo shirts). I have talked to woman I meet and got to know about thier first impression. I even mentioned how much the way I dressed mattered. In a nutshell it did for as far as first impressions go, and in many cases it is the dressing up that sets different guys apart from each other.

Basically woman anywhere in the world will notice a well dressed stylish gentleman. It is very important to feel comfortable and 'yourself', it is also important to stand out and be noticed. I have personally visited Ukraine, Brazil, and China (stating these 3 as a basis of comparison), and the woman from Ukraine were ALL fashion minded. It is like a pastime during a girls childhood to develope a fashion sense. Brazil culture and woman were all dressed up in shorts and other similar casual beach wear. in China everyone dressed up in jeans and Nike jogging suits. However in Ukraine socialy minded woman (the ones you would be interested, and not the babushkas)ALL dressed in a fashionable attire, and they do expect the same level of attention for 'thier' man to follow with his attire.

This does not mean to wear a tie everywhere, but I can guarentee you will deny yourself many potential good first impressions, and if you miss out a good first impression from 'the one' because you have a personal vendetta against looking formal and stylish for one event, then that is a terrible price to pay.

Do not think of it as surrendering to the 'establishment'. Just look at it as you are dressing up for them, as that is what they want to see, that is all part of the romantice process both woman and men enjoy.

Sure there are some Ukrainian woman that will not care if you dress down (this is really a minority in Ukraine). However even those women will appreciate the attention you give to make a first meeting a formal romantic affair.

It is a very romantic game they play (I personaly enjoy the 'game'). I suggest to play along, at least for the first impression meeting.

May I ask why you are so against wearing a tie? It really will matter in 90% of the time, and after spending so much time, effort, and money do you not want to have the best chance at success?

BTW, I have received gifts from various woman during my travels. And each gift I received from Ukraine women were in fact a name brand clothing article (usually an accesory like a tie or belt). They expected me to wear the gift the next time we went out. If you got a tie as a gift and they wanted to see you wear it, what will you do? Refuse? They may take your refusal and unappreciation of the gift, and an insult. This is just an example how sytle and formal clothing is such a big part of the culture.

You may feel more comfortable sticking with Latin American culture. That culture is more relaxed about clothing. If you are with an Eastern Europeon woman be expected to dress up, and if she does not speak about it she will in fact think about it and enjoy it when you do dress up.

Those are my thoughts. Go out and wear a suit for one night. If you need help with a tie, ask your date. She will be more than happy to show you and appreciate your attempt to be fashionable for her as she is trying to do for you.

MNKenr

[wsbill]

... in response to My experience with dressing up., posted by MNKenr on Jan 28, 2005

To look rich and fashionable.  As somebody else pointed out.
They are poor and your their white knight in shining armor.

Any lady on the face of the planet wants to see a guy or their guy to look appealing, kinda like she's show you off to all the other ladies, vindicating her self worth to socieity.

If you look like a bum.  What's that say about her ?

Once your there, set the girl up to see if she really does care about how you two look together.  I like leaned up against a old wall and the white like paint dust was pressed into my jacket.  The lady I was with took the time to try and sweep the dust off my jacket.

What would you american girl friend do here in America?
Would she lift a finger to do anything or would she just point it out to you and let you deal with it.

Any guy can land a pretty girl over there.   Just can you land one that really cares about YOU and not how much your worth.

Course, that's true over here... it's just much more difficult to find.  Their not as desperate, which is why their so fat.

[fathertime]

... in response to My experience with dressing up., posted by MNKenr on Jan 28, 2005

Thank you MNkenr for your useful comments.  They help me realize more of what I am up against.  You ask "Why am I so against wearing a tie"  I can't stand the falseness of a tie on me. Two things I do not wear are ties or a speedo swimsuit.
I may not get along with the vast majority of Ukrainian women if these criteria are so critical.  I can live with that.  
What I want to do is scan through the social pick out my favorites get to know them for a few minutes and leave.  If there is mutual interest than I will meet them later in a place of our choosing.  I do not want to be some smiling puppet that meets a bunch of woman I am not interested in.  If 8 out of 9 women think I am a turd in the punchbowl due to appearance than perhaps they are correct in not wanting to give me an opportunity.  Once I am back in the states its T-shirt and shorts and my riduculous plastic watch.  Any woman who is interested in me should be clear about my intentional lack of a sense of style.  
Before I went to Colombia people were telling me how I had to dance.  I said I ain't dancing no matter what.  Well a few drinks later I was dancing with what I considered the best looking woman in the room.  I made an ass of myself of course and although she was red hot I had nothing in common with her.  I went on to see many other woman in Colombia, we swam, we ate, we took walks, all sorts of other things.  The point being I am excellent with people in environments I want to be in.  I am going to go to the social but I will not play by the rules. I have always been an iconoclast and I can't change who I am.  
I must sound like a complete nincompoop here.  The fact is I am pretty happy with who I am and it will take a unique Ukrainian woman to let me and my horrid sense of style and offbeat personality flourish.
Thank you all.

[MNKenr]

... in response to Re: My experience with dressing up., posted by fathertime on Jan 28, 2005

Well the best thing to do, is to do something. You are doing that so no fault there.

Good luck, and just remember if you will not wear a tie or dressing up in formal attire, then be sure you have another 'angle' that will get you noticed and desired. I am sure you will have no problem there.

In any case it will be an experience and I comend you for taking advantage of the experience.

MNkenr

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: My experience with dressing up., posted by fathertime on Jan 28, 2005

Just your style of writing.  Iconoclast, a nincompoop.

Trust me bub, if you can't find a Colombian lady, maybe you should try a Brazilian or Panama.

[fathertime]

... in response to You sound alot like Steve Forbes, posted by wsbill on Jan 28, 2005

Forbes here,
WSbill, Can't is too strong a term for my experience in Colombia.  The girls were excellent in all departments but none stood out enough for me at that time. I may find my way back there but first I want to see what this Ukraine thing is all about since at least on paper the Ukrainian woman are even more dazzling as a whole than the Colombians in my opinion.  If the cultural differences are too god-awful for me and my quirks to handle, than I will be back to Colombia armed with the knowledge that Ukrainian woman are not my style.  I have no problem with that.
Thanks

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: You sound alot like Steve Forbes, posted by fathertime on Jan 28, 2005

I use to live in South Texas, there are some very pretty mexican women, but they're really nice and shapely when their young, but when they get old they really start tacking it on.  That's probably a bad stereotype, but it's the truth.

I'm sure it's that same way with some Ukrainian women, but I'd much prefer to look at a fat white lady than a fat mexican or asian.  Besides, when they get really big, aren't you suppose to like trade them in for a newer model.

:-)

[Jack]

... in response to My experience with dressing up., posted by MNKenr on Jan 28, 2005

Hello MNKen, how are you doing?

And as I recall you looked very handsome in your attire at the parties you attended.

MNKen are you married? Engaged? How did things turn out with the lady you had so much interest in?

[MNKenr]

... in response to Re: My experience with dressing up., posted by Jack on Jan 28, 2005

Hey there Jack.

Well she came over to visit. Things went well, however she can not see herself leaving her family to live 'out of country' She still has some goals she wants to finish with her life before 'moving on'.

I respect that. We have not been going in a serious fashion anymore, but we still chat several times a week, and we both are keeping all options open. In fact I am planning a another visit over to Odessa. I want to take about 6 weeks off and drive the countryside, and head up eventually to St. Petersburg, but I have not really planned out everything needed for such a road trip.

In the mean time I have started a new career and have traveled to Brazil and China for business and pleasure. So I suppose you can say I have the East European, Asian and Latino culture perspective when it comes with the women.

Still unmarried, and in no real hurry to change that. However my options are open! :-)

I am also still considering real estate in Odessa. It sems inexpensive enough. We need to chat about that sometime, as I remember you were looking to purchase a flat. How did that go?

By the way I bought some knock off Armani suits in China, and I did an experiment. I wore the suits 3 times a week for two weeks, and in general I have received a much more positive reaction from everyone. I now make it a habit to wear them at least once a week.

Anyway, that is a quick update. When are you heading over again?

MNKenr

[Jack]

... in response to Re: Re: My experience with dressing up., posted by MNKenr on Feb 1, 2005

Hey MNKen, thanks for the update.

Write me   nunya@ix.netcom

[Rags]

... in response to My experience with dressing up., posted by MNKenr on Jan 28, 2005

You should see the shoes that my FIL gave me for New Years.

Fine Italian leather john boats.