Best wishes

[Rostik]

Dear All,

I wish you all to find the person you are looking for and to those who have already found their soulmates - years and years of happiness.
Let all the good memories, emotions and feelings stick with you forever, let all the bad things leave your hearts and be forgotten. Let there be love!

Remember: All you need is love!

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[WmGo]

... in response to Best wishes, posted by Rostik on Jan 2, 2005

Rostik,

Best wishes to you also in 2005. And Merry
Christmas too.

Most importantly, congratulations on your
country's Orange Revolution. You may recall
I predicted it when I was there the summer
of '03.

Good luck!

WmGO

[wsbill]

... in response to Best wishes, posted by Rostik on Jan 2, 2005

Are you a Lawyer or still studying to be one?

Hope you have a very Merry Christmas in a few days and of course a very good and prosperious New Year.

[Rostik]

... in response to Re: What have you been up to Rostic, posted by wsbill on Jan 2, 2005

Hi,

I`m done with my studies and now trying to get other things settled, soon I`ll become a certified interpreter!!
I was working on a lot of things recently and trying to figure out the best way for people to find their coulmates in Ukraine. Lately I've noticed that the ultimate way would be to meet people on the streets here, in the shops, restaurants. It was amazing how it works for people, there is no need for agencies no more I thought, but then again to do it you have to be here and how do you find women before you come here?
I`ll figure these things out as well.
I would think that ads would be the best solution, but the outcome is poor a lot of times, and mostly those letters come from the small towns you rarely even see on the map, and a lot of people there have no phones and speak no english, I think I`m getting close to resolving this issue as well. If I get a friend of mine to try what I've worked on I`ll post it here, and let everyone use it!
I`ll have a longer post here on the site about all my research in this area and who knows maybe it will help resolve all the issues.

Well, that's about it.

THANKS FOR THE WISHES, I HAD A GREAT NY AND WILL HAVE A GREAT CHRISTMAS

With best wishes,
Rostick.

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: Re: What have you been up to Rostic, posted by Rostik on Jan 3, 2005

Women over here as well.  Works great, if you can find a decent single one.  But I don't know about the ones hanging out on street corners.

I think the best odds of finding someone is just going over and touring the place on your own.  Maybe hire a city tour guide to show you around the city.  But the mail order bride business days are numbered.

When the economy starts to improve these women aren't going to want to go off and leave.   But, I'm talkin 5-10 years down the road.

But one of these days the economy in Ukraine is going to be robust and if you don't have all your ducks in a row.  You'll definately miss out on that huge opportunity.

Heck, do know of anybody that makes great tourist T-shirts of some of the unique statues in Kiev ?   I think, if somebody was to create a tourist shop where they can pick up do-dads (soverniers), this would be pretty good little business.  Course, their doing that on Andreski street where they have all those painting on Sundays.  But, it seem their just selling old junk.  Gee, I wonder have they ever thought of selling some of that ole'junk on ebay ?

[LP]

... in response to Re: Hey,,, that sounds like how we meet , posted by wsbill on Jan 3, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]

...Just go over and meet women in their natural "habitat", like normal guys do? No agencies, no meeting women who advertise themselves like meat in a market or are predisposed to escaping for economic reasons? No scammers, gypsies, tramps and thieves? Now why didn't I think of that?

There is only two problems: 1) You'll need to learn some of the lingo and 2) you'll meet so many you'll reach a point where you won't want to choose, although if you're not a desperado that's not as bad as it sounds. On the other hand many MOB guys would fall flat using such tactics because it takes more than dangling the visa carrot (or a wheeless doublewide and a tomato patch) to get non-MOB women to bite. They'll nibble for a free lunch or a night out but if you think MOB women can smell a foreign smuck just wait until you deal with "normal" FSU gals. Be prepared to blow them off in a heartbeat and not worry about it because the beauty of it is there are so many more to choose from then in MOB...and when you meet one who seems serious you'll have more confidence it's for the right reason.

Hey Rostik, so it's all about acting eh? I've finally come to accept that but it still makes me a little sad. And I can still hear your whispered words: "You can do better than this country girl". Maybe so but she ended up being one of the sweetest I've ever known and the only one who 100% matched all the hype agencies put forth. I tell ya, after a few weeks living with her I was nearly sold. Too bad she was so young and came with a two legged tumor attached. But you were right, in some ways I ended up doing better (and in other ways not as good) in northern Russia. Guess it all comes down to one's priorities but I still say there is something about country girls. They may not be the brightest, well educated, or cultured of the lot but many make up for it by being just as beautiful on the inside as out.

I'll stop by sometime in the Spring and we'll take the trip we talked about. I have an in with the folks there so it'll be no problem. Btw, Vera married a guy from Italy last week. It was a big relief for me, if anyone deserved an escape from Siberia to a better life it was her. Fwiw, she'd never had a high opinion of Kyiv (or Ukraine in general) but she told me you changed that. Can't ask for much more eh?

[Frank O]

... in response to What a concept...., posted by LP on Jan 3, 2005

My "girl" went Awol on me & I had NO trouble meeting girls in the street, in the internet bar, at the restaurant where I had breakfast etc. As a matter of fact I met more girls in Lugansk than I ever did IN kiev. I even got pulled over in the street by 2 girls & a guy so they could take pics with me. Must have been the long hair & leather that made me stick out like a sore thumb.
Also I did not know any better but my flat was in the "bad" part of town. I remember my friend Victor showing up & saying "you walk down this way & they can slit your throat if you walk that way they can cut your heart open". I thought he was joking. Anyways I never had a single incident while there (another friend of mine was mugged though).
All in all it's up to you & your ATTITUDE. I had a blast in Lugansk the "capital" of sharks. I do NOT regret any of it. I kind of miss it actually.

[wsbill]

... in response to I did that in LUgansk, posted by Frank O on Jan 4, 2005

Only it was walking home one.  I pondered, well I know there are the security clowns who stand around at the base of the hill and will jack you up for money.  So, instead I dipped into the Cowboy club lasso'ed a lady of the evening and she got us a cab and we drove right by them, no sweat.

And of course, I got laid that night.  I'd rather pay for cheaper passage than to deal with idiots and have some groovey fun at the same time.  Just adjust to the elements and move on.

[Frank O]

... in response to Re: Gee, I kinda did the same thing, posted by wsbill on Jan 4, 2005

On my last trip there was 4 other (3?) Americans that were there to meet ladies. Some were on return trips. One was TOTALLY lost & helpless. Got stood up. Anyways having lived on the Mexican/American borer (Texas) for so long you learn to not "be a victim". I"ve spent much time in Mexico & have NEVER gotten into trouble. Many Americans simply "look" like a good target & look like tourists etc. Man exercise some wisdom. I know EXACTLY what you mean. I thought after Mexico, Lugansk was a walk in the park only with women who were a little "colder" than the hot blooded Latina's I was so used to.

[wsbill]

... in response to What a concept...., posted by LP on Jan 3, 2005

girl I was visiting as the day I was leaving she wasn't in tears.  But, was calm and collective.  Though, I kinda picked up on it early when she said something about papa to her little kid, when we going to the Dniper River for a picnic.  Was she play acting innocent girl on the lamb.  Or was she a decent girl... I'll never know.

Too bad, I really kinda liked her and the kido with his thyroid problem well.  That would have probably drained me finanically, anyway.  Too bad.. I kinda liked him as well.

Spent a great day at their dacha garden spot... The half built dacha did make me wonder... Is wsbill, being played?

I didn't care.  I was there for the adventure and these people and really see what all this hub-bub about russian girls was all about.  I wasn't really too impressed.  But, that doesn't mean I don't want to go back and just meet more and maybe find one.

Course, the dead ringer was when she said "did you come yet, in perfect english", well that was definately the cats meow!

Next time I go, I'm going to have them lined up like ducks in a row...  Course, Oatmeal though he had them lined up as well... and I saw the difficult he was having calling them up on the phone arranging dates.  

So go figure.  Trial error.

[LP]

... in response to Re: Yea, Rostic said something about the, posted by wsbill on Jan 4, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]

...a tad sarcastic Bill. Anyone who reads this board knows I long ago blew off the agency thing and do what Rostick is suggesting. None of the women I deal with are in a rush to leave the FSU because they've never been in MOB (although I've found many had considered it in passing at some point). In other words their sincerity and motivation is a more clear (although nothing is 100% sure when dealing with women of any kind).

I agree with Rostick except I feel it's better to avoid translators if possible. I use him for housing and other details because we go back years and because I'd rather he get the cash than some flunkie I've never met. I also use him for ocassional translation when I want to be absolutely sure of conveying something serious but I don't recall a single case of using him to meet a girl on the street, nor would I consider asking him. Frankly, I'd feel strange approaching women in public using an interperter, especially one you had to call. It's down right embarressing and I know women who don't think much of a man who spends so much time, effort, and money looking and yet is too lazy to learn how to communicate with them.

Call your interperter. Will she wait around until he gets there? Would you if the situation was reversed? People in public have better things to do with their time than talk to strangers for more than a minute or so, especially strangers who don't speak their language. I also maintain courting a woman you can't communicate with is just plain dumb. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Make an attempt to learn the language as best you possibly can, it'll set you free from much more than the problems of meeting women. Course, agencies want you to avoid any of this because it robs their coffers. A basic fact is agencies exist *primarily* to take advantage of the language barrier, without it they'd be a shadow of what they are now. That be some serious power they have over you but you can nullify it without much of an effort and that alone makes it worthwhile. My opinion is the further away you get from agencies the better off you'll be, it's a slimey business and if I had the power I'd end it tomorrow.

He's also right when he says many men have no confidence meeting women this way and MOB seems to be heavily populated with those types. I doubt that problem can be overcome because for many it's why they got into this racket to begin with and rather than face it they fall back on some bizzare rationalizations. As long as MOB is populated by such men agencies will thrive. If guys used only 10% of the time and money they give to agencies to learn the lingo the light would finally come on.

Rejection? Sure, it happens but who cares? Just consider it the woman's loss and move on. As Frank said, it's all about attitude. Even he admits to missing it. That's exactly why I avoided "success" until one of the many right ones came along. (We'll see, I've been there before). It's because the public sea is so much larger and cleaner than the MOB cesspool to fish in the quality is that much better.

Btw Bill, I try to leave 'em all in tears...if I don't I know I'm wasting my time

[Rostik]

... in response to Re: Yea, Rostic said something about the, posted by wsbill on Jan 4, 2005

Hi,

I must admit that meeting women directly not through an agency is much more effective. I`m not talking about the "working girls" who you can meet on the streets or in bars, I`m talking about decent women who for the most part have nothing to do with agencies. It's amazing how it worked for a friend of mine.
Here is some of my observations:
- when you meet a woman on the street (or somewhere else) and establish a contact with her almost 100% of the times it's sincere interest on her part.
- when you have a conversation with a woman who you met, it's so different from the "dates" arranged by the agency. It's not like an interview (what do you do in your free time? what plans you have for the future? what are you going to do in america? do you want to have kids?) eventually these questions will be discussed, but the communication is less programmed ( i hope it makes sense, but I can't find the right words at the moment). It's the real thing, you just enjoy it.
- the relationship you have established with a woman is totally different, it doesn't have a pre-programmed goal "LEAVE UKRAINE", the only goal it has is to learn more about each other, and enjoy each others company.
- in most cases you don't deal with the "agency thing", it's all up to you and her, how to arrange for meetings, what to do, where to go, how to communicate.
Interpreters, meetings in the office or at the restaurant, regular questions - all of this isn't necessary any more.
- I have to add though that it involves a little more effort on your part, because you have to open up, walk up to a lady, start a conversation and most guys (including myself. Not any more though ) have a problem doing this. What can I say women are people as well, and if you get rejected (which is what most people fear) - well, move on!

I started working on this because lately I've noticed that agencies have a lot of proffessional daters in their catalogs, women who date 3-4 or more guys at the same time, women who don't even think about getting married, women who have turned it into business (gifts, trips, money etc.). Again I said a lot, but not all! Some of the ladies at the agencies are nice and sweet, sincere and open, but now it's hard to find. Plus a lot of agencies start pushing their "business" by writing letters to guys (pretending it's from women), by pushing guys to meet many ladies (saying I know her she is a good girl, and in reality you`ll have a nice date at a nice restaurant, maybe even promising, but empty, because she has another 5-6 guys to meet that same day).

Language problem - NOT A PROBLEM! All you have to have is a phone number for an interpreter, and whenever you meet a lady, you like each other, call your interpreter (means you need a cell-phone) and ask him/her to get the ladies phone number and arrange for a meeting. I've seen a phrase book making miracles and people didn't even need an interpreter because they could communicate through the book, that's how great the desire was on both parts. Of course ideally you would know a few russian phrases to introduce yourself and get the contact information, and carry on a simple conversation ( we are talking 20 phrases - EASY! ).

I believe that the best way to meet women is to meet them face to face somewhere, not through an agency. You might get rejected maybe 20 times that day, but the ladies who won't reject you, will have sincere interest for you, as a person, not for your wallet or your passport, but for you!

This is just a part of what I`m working on at the moment. I hope people will find this idea interesting.

With best wishes,
Rostick.

[Jack]

... in response to Re: Re: Yea, Rostic said something about..., posted by Rostik on Jan 4, 2005

I could not agree more with most of what Rostick has brought up here. Meeting ladies as they go about their normal day is a good way to meet good Russian women. Meeting ladies that are not only associated with agencies. Their are many fine ladies who are with agencies, don't get me or Rostick wrong about that. Their are many fine and good ladies with agencies. But you also have a lot of 'professional daters'. You have ladies who date foreigners, and who put on a good act, for the purpose of getting new shoe's, a new purse, new coat, new TV, etc, etc.

The percentages of good, sincere women you will meet while out walking, while out shopping, while going to the market, while standing in line for a bus, and even in some of the nicer disco's, is much higher than the overall percentages of good women you will find with agencies. And that's ALL agencies, their is no exception including our own.

Since Rostick made a brief reference to it I will make a comment about one of our approaches to helping men find good ladies.

When a guy starts out how does he go about finding, writing good ladies? What one method should a guy use? Well the answer is you don't use one method. You use several methods. You buy addresses from good, ethical agencies. You run personal newspapers ads. You run your internet ad on Russian ISP's, where  Russian women are looking for Russian men. You run ads on Russian/Ukraine TV. You meet friends of friends. And you met local Russian ladies in their natural environment. You meet Russian ladies you see while you are out walking around.

This is a practice we have be doing and refining for about four years. We tell our clients, "If you see a Russian woman who interest's you and you would like to meet her, let us know".  If you make good eye contact with a lady you see at the market, if you and an attractive lady smile at each other as you pass walking down Khershatyk, and you would like to meet her, let us know. Our people will ask you to stand there and we will approach this lady. "Excuse me Miss, my friend from America could not help to notice your beautiful smile. He would like to know if maybe you would like to meet over cup of tea or juice". And while we are talking to this lady we make sure the lady can see our client. If the lady has a boyfriend or is married, she will of course not be interested. Maybe she might have interest but is running later for work or a meeting, in case we will offer her our phone number and ask her if she would call when it would be convenient for her. If she agrees we of course also ask her for her phone number as well.

One out of every four and a half attempts their is either information exchanged of a meeting takes place then. We have done this hundreds and hundreds of times and from those results one out of every 4.5 attempts their is either a meeting or contact information is exchanged.

You incorporate this method as part of your overall game plan. You can not ofcourse do this if you are with a date. Can you recall all the times you were with a date and you saw a fine Russian woman smiling real big at you as you passed. And you think why couldn't I see her while not having my date. We encourage men to set time aside just for this method.

If you go to some of the night clubs or disco's go to the one's that have a history of good girls showing up. Good Russian women love to go out and dance at nice clubs and disco's. Most good women will not be caught dead in a club known for having bad women. As an example I am not sure any of us, well I better say most of us, would not want to marry any woman we met at the River Palace in Kiev or the Duck in Moscow.

Another option we offer clients for when they are not in the FSU is to create a nice flyer of them, put their best photo and information on a flyer. The client gives us a very specific profile as to the type lady he is looking for. Age, height, features. And in the late afternoon and evenings we go areas where people line up to catch buses back home. You could see 200 people in line for one bus route. You could see 10 different lines for 10 different routes in the same area. You WILL see many beautiful ladies in these lines. We walk down those lines passing out these flyers to all the 5ft 6 blue-eyed blondes with nice bust's we see, or the 5ft 9inch green-eyed slim brunettes with long legs, whatever type lady the client has described. As in everything about the pursuit for a fine Russian bride (except those guys who will marry the first and only Russian woman they ever wrote too or met), it is a numbers game. Buy enough addresses, you will find some fine ladies. Run enough personal ads, you will find some fine ladies. Pass out enough flyers, you will meet some fine ladies. Stop and talk to enough fine ladies you meet on the street, you will meet some fine ladies.

Four years ago, three years ago, two years ago, Rostick at first did not feel comfortable with doing this for our clients. So our Galina or Vika or Sergey, Dmitry, Olga, whoever, would do this for our clients. Many times Rostick would be with me when together we would see one of our clients have interest in this woman who just walked by him and one of our associates would approach the lady and ask if she might have interest to meet John Smith. Rostick saw enough good women who were truly interested in meeting this handsome foreign man that over the years he began to change his feelings. And over the past year Rostick has helped many clients meet many local ladies in Kiev, in Odessa, in Chernvisiti, Lugansk, Kharkov, Dnepropetrovsk, Krivoy, Zap, Kherson, Nikolaev.

About the only thing Rostick and I have a little disagreement about is the level of English a woman can speak. I would prefer the client meet only ladies who could speak at least a little English. Just my recommendation. As Rostick has eluded to he knows of couples who were so interested in each other her ability to not speak English was not such a factor.

This past fall, the first week in October we had a client who had just decided the Russian lady he had been involved with during the previous 6-month was not going to be his future wife. He had no other ladies he was communicating with and with about a week to go before he was to leave to return home he asked for our help. We of course got him set up with some honest and ethical local agencies, but we also talked to him about walking up to ladies he found he was physically attracted to. He was a little experienced so sided with me as to only wanting to meet ladies who could speak at least a little English. The three of us were sitting at an outside cafe enjoying the view and several nice cold one's. As this man would see a lady he was interested in he would get up, catch up with her and would speak to her. We had told him what to say and he practiced it. In the period of about 2.5 hours this client had set three dates. He must have talked to about 12 to 14 ladies and was able to set up meetings or dates with three ladies, all of which could speak a little English. Their was a fourth lady he stopped who could not speak any English but she had a real interest in him so she came over and spoke with Rostick. A date was set up with her and the eventually met.

So my advice to guys involved for the pursuit of a good Russian bride, get off the beaten path, try different means and methods. Educate yourself as much as possible. If you have to work with an agency find one that is good and does not interfere with your ability to communicate directly with any of it's ladies.

[LP]

... in response to meeting ladies, posted by Jack on Jan 4, 2005

[This message has been edited by LP]


...I agree with using any and all methods and going off the beaten path.  When you say "educate youself as much as possible" doesn't that include learning at least a half azzed working knowledge of the language? You're lucky most MOB guys are too lazy to do it or you'd go broke

[Jack]

... in response to Re: meeting ladies, posted by LP on Jan 4, 2005

LP, can you explain to me your thinking as to how me saying "I recommend guys to try to find ladies who speak at least a little English", to you sounds as if spoken like a true agency owner?