cnn has a live feed link on their site

[LP]

... in response to Re: What planet are you from?, posted by TimInUkraine on Nov 27, 2004


...He's just plain ignorant. The same ignorance he had when he voted for 4 more only this time it's coupled with bias based on his being married to a Ukie. Talk about not having any common sense. As I've said before, some of these guys have problems no woman will solve.

[LP]

... in response to What planet are you from?, posted by AllenB on Nov 26, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]


....I knew if I kept at it I'd sucker someone. You're so screwed up in the head I don't know where to start but I'll give it a shot.

If I'm supposed to let go of it (and I'm no Kerry lover btw) why aren't you demanding Yushchenko's people do the same? How big of a hypocrite can you be? Especially when *far* more is a stake in the US? Afer all, thats why you're rooting for Yushchencko right? Because of whats at stake?

Forget the fraud issue, if Yunakovich is so bad then how come 50% of the people want him? Are you suggesting 50% of the vote was rigged? Is that why his supporters are coming out in droves? Is it why the tallies were about the same in the first election and then the run off? Is it why entire regions in the east are threatening referendums for autonomy if Yushchenko is installed? Just where are you getting your facts from? Or are you saying the half that want Yunakovich are just plain stupid and ignorant? What was your excuse for voting Bush, same as theirs for voting Yunakovich? My head is spinning just thinking about it. At least Yunakovich hasn't had his chance yet, at least his performance as president is an unknown.

How can you promote the guy in Ukraine who stands for democracy and freedom while promoting someone as immoral, slimey, dishonest, and underhanded as Yunakovich in your own country? All the while badmouthing Yunakovich? And all the while supporting a guy at home who is too stupid to know foisting democracy on another nation at the point of a gun (under proven deceit and a belief he's on a mission from God to boot) might just not work because some cultures value religion more than they'll ever value democracy? And being blind to the same despicable fate slowly befalling your own country? Duh.

But back to UA. Of course the US cries fraud you moron, they want Yush in. Putin says it was an honest election. I wonder why. Come on, are you *that* stupid? Can't you even understand basic politics? If your wonderful prez repeatably lies to his own people doesn't it occur to you he's going to be a tad basied on this UA thing? And I'm not making up that the two largest international organizations who observed say the vote was flawed but accurate enough to be legit. Read it and weep, it's right there where I posted it...and that comes from Ukraine

Jesus Christ, if I think about how you formulate things for more than two minutes blood is liable to come shooting outta my nose. You are one messed up Hombre but I'd expect that from someone so narrowminded, ignorant, and uniformed that he'd vote for four more years of deceit, incompetence, and lies.

I live on planet Earth chump, while you and your kind continue to see the US as an island which, thanks to you, it's rapidly becoming. Ukraine will be fine and if not thats too freaking bad because we shouldn't be meddling in their internal affairs to begin with. And to equate Ukraine with Belarus only shows how ignorant you really are. You should be worrying more about the outbreak of Dubya Dubya II but you aren't and you know why? Because you're so used to living under the most corrupt mayor in the most corrupt city in the country that you can't see beyond ORD to DC.

Hows about you focus on cleaning up your own house before becoming so concerned with a first rate third rate country just because you married someone from there? Nice to see the loser mentality is alive and well, maybe it's *you* who should be thinking about leaving because you sure as hell aren't doing your own country any good. In short, you're a hypocrite of the highest caliber.

Lol, and at least I can spell miner...

[WmGo]

... in response to What planet are you from?, posted by AllenB on Nov 26, 2004

He is from the whiney butt grossly
inconsistent sore loser hypocritical know it
all planet. At any rate, I agree with your remarks.
How anyone could approve of the old
Soviet Communists turned mafia oligarchs over a progressive
democratic reformer is beyond
comprehension.

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: What planet ?, posted by WmGo on Nov 26, 2004

You guys are fight over something we have no control over.

All you can really do is watch everything unfold.

Good will eventually rule in Ukraine, sometimes it takes time for those to deliver it time to work their magic.  It's like elections in Iraq, the first president will be cursed at by the people, but after a few times it will get intergrated in to the system.

Perfection, never happens on the first try.  It takes time, years.  The kind of democracy that is happening in the FSU, may not be the same kind as we enjoy in the west.  Look at China how their economy is florishing, but do you ever really wonder about their political process ?

Hate to say it but, I don't see Ukraine ever becoming a real economical super power, especially if they get back in bed with that ole bear.  They'll be their red headed step child to smack around and take all the blame.  It's convent for the Russians.

[LP]

... in response to Re: What planet ?, posted by WmGo on Nov 26, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]

...I just don't get his hypocrisy is all. Same with you. If 50% of the Ukrainian people want the bad guy who are you to say any different, all the while saying I have no right to do the same in this country? Or do you think half of the Ukrainian population's vote was rigged?

If Allen or yourself had bothered to follow the political scene in Ukraine *before* all this became news (typical of heartland Americans) you'd know Yushchencko isn't exactly a chior boy. He and his people are also guilty of some nasty shenanigans and vote stuffing. He's a politician, out for himself, no different than his brethren. Not to mention he's a former PM, having served under that same old gang you speak so badly about. Pro-democratic and pro-west? Oh yeah, he's a real saint.

But nope, you don't want to see this because your ignorant. It's the same ignorance you and 60 million others used to get us we're we are today. That this latest case is based mainly on a twisted effect of MOB is all the more amazing. You're both something I tell ya, you have your heads so far up your azzess you must be looking out your ribs and thinking you're in jail.

By the way, screw you very much for the kind words....

[WmGo]

... in response to I don't approve....., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2004

[This message has been edited by WmGo]

LP,

I have followed "the political scene" in
Russia and Ukraine for thirty years. I think
I chastised you once before about making *assumptions*,and
there you go and do it again.

FYI, there is no evidence that Yuschenko's side engaged in any ballot fraud- or for that matter any substantive allegations of such. So quit making stuff up just because you hate freedom and those who fight for it.

As you obviously don't know, because *you* didn't follow "the political scene" before the recent elections, Yuschenko *forced* his way into the government when he was PM - and was subsequently forced out because of his reform efforts (by a coaliton of the Kuchma led eastern oligarchs and communists). IOW, he was not serving the oligarchic clans, he was fighting them. That is why he was driven out. This is common 101 information of Ukrainian politics.

FYI, and the information of all thinking people, what we are witnessing is a continuation of the collapse of the atheist communist evil and sinister Soviet Empire. When that empire collapsed, high ranking communists continued control and just declared themselves "Beezneezmein" and stole state industries and properties for fractions of their worth in criminal insider deals. Now, they only wish to protect their ill gotten gains and to continue to treat the people under their control as peasant serfs paying them  less than subsistence wages. They are little devils who seeks to live as demigods. Yes, many of the poor and uneducated masses of people in the south and east ignorantly support them - they fear for their daily bread. And they are used to being controlled. But a revolution is happening! A revolution for radical change. Change from the corrupt remnant of the Soviet Union. It has happened throughout Eastern Europe, even Georgia. Let it also happen in Ukraine. Let us applaud the people who have the bravery to make this revolution. Let us pray that it is both succesful and peaceful.

So you see DavidLP, it is *YOU* who refuses to see the reality of the situation in Ukraine. And because you don't, just like your San Diego twin you seek to denigrate those who don't share your very small view of the world. Thank God the freedom of man does not depend on your ilk.

Good luck!

WmGO

[LP]

... in response to I  DO approve.....Let if Be!!!, posted by WmGo on Dec 1, 2004

Put this in your "I have followed the political scene in Russia and Ukraine for thirty years" pipe and smoke it:

http://www.untimely-thoughts.com/index.html?art=1082

The guys is no angel and if you really think it's all about democracy you're more cluless than I thought...

[LP]

... in response to I  DO approve.....Let if Be!!!, posted by WmGo on Dec 1, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]

I meant I don't approve of the old Soviet Communists turned mafia oligarchs, as you put it. Normally I wouldn't give a rat's azz what you approve of but your approval of a man who is destroying our own freedoms while worrying about a first rate third rate country (while calling half of those in it ignorant) is hypocrisy I can't ignore.

--there is no evidence that Yuschenko's side engaged in any ballot fraud- or for that matter any substantive allegations of such.--

Well, that says it all right there. You're even more clueless than I suspected. I can't compete with ignorance on that level so you're right, I'll let it be.

Btw, I love my country. It's why I want it back from the scum you uneducated moral legislating morons put back into office. And don't talk to me about freedom and sacrifice. I've served my country in three different uniforms, putting my life on the line in each one. And technically, due to being involved in a program I didn't have to, today I'm one of the few doing it in a fourth. How bout you weekend patriot? Nah, I didn't think so...

[WmGo]

... in response to Re:  I  DO approve.....Let if Be!!!, posted by LP on Dec 5, 2004

[This message has been edited by WmGo]

LP,

Those who resort to name calling
instead of presenting facts and
reasoning reveal themselves ...well,
quite revealingly.

In addition, and more to the point, you
wholey fail to stay on point in your "response".
Apparently your complexes and predictable knee jerk
responses caused you to forget, the subject was
the revolution for freedom and democratic values
in Ukraine vs. your puny view of the matter.

You obviously have a lot of issues with
unresolved anger, a superiority
complex a mile wide and a very unbecoming anti-social behaviour syndrome- just like your twin from
San Diego. Jesus Christ can change all that.

As far as your continuing wimpy whiney butt ravings
about the President, go post it on a political message
board.

Good luck! And remember, Jesus loves you.

WmGO

[LP]

... in response to Re....Let if Be!!!, posted by WmGo on Dec 5, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]

...I tried. Shoulda known enlightenment is not possible in the land 'o cotton, pickups, and gun racks. Never has been.

Superiority complex? Hardly. Besides, how hard is it to actually be superior to the many weirdos and losers found in this racket?

Angry? You're GD right I'm angry. A friend of mine was killed in Iraq last year and last month a friend of mine's son was killed there. He was 19 years old and a good kid. He didn't deserve to be blown apart in some sheet hole of a country simply because of someone's ego and ignorance. You think he died for democracy and freedom? Or in fighting terrorism? Bullsheet. He died for a lie perpertrated against the American people and the world. He died for nothing, same as every American death in Iraq. He died because the religious right has their head so far up their azz they revel in the continuing loss of seperation between church and state this country is suffering. Every single one of these deaths, coalition or Iraqi, is your fault. Their blood and the destruction of lives is on your hands and the hands of the ignorant masses who continue to sanction this administration and it's massive corruption of this country's principles.

Angry? I can't even voice these views in my public life because the TSA and DHS has made it clear my peers and I could be punished for doing so. This is the kind of freedom and democracy you now live in. This is only one small example of what my friends and the rest are dying for. I once had great respect for you but it's quickly becoming contempt. Like most of your region you have absolutely *no* idea what goes on daily in the government and country you worship as the best on Earth.

And wtf is up with playing the DSD card? Is *that* the best you can do? I expected better.

As for JC loving me, do I have to pay him for it? Here's a little sidebar for you: A Ukie girl I've known for a few years (one whom I once had great interest in but keep as a friend) recently came to me for advice. Turns out unbeknownest to me she'd be slowly getting sucked in by some "American church" in her town for the last few months. When they began foisting  video tapes upon her to show how she should raise her son "correctly" she became confused and alarmed.

Turns out they were Baptists. As if UA doesn't have enough problems, do they really need these kinds of missionaries? Then they told her she'd have to cough up 10% of her income to be "baptised". What kind of church tiths in a country as poor as Ukraine? Tithing is bad enough but to deny her full membership unless she does is despicable. Real nice folks you're promoting there.

I gave her a choice: our friendship or these slimeballs. She was smart and choose our friendship. Even then I cut her off from the financial support that I provide for many women I remain in contact with. She'll get it again when I'm confident it's not being squandered on that nonsense. So you see, I saved another one from being "saved" ie; brainwashed. Felt darn good too, maybe I should become a deprogrammer. After all, organized religion is nothing more than cults on a massive scale.

[WmGo]

... in response to Ah well...., posted by LP on Dec 5, 2004

LP,

1. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

2. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God

3. That shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain

4. Regional ad hominem argumentation is illogical and
therefore invalid - in addition to arrogant and bigoted.

5. Stiff necked arrogant pride is sin - and the downfall of man

6. I was personally opposed to the Iraq invasion. I can assure you there is no blood on my hands. That is a really ridiculous thing to suggest.

7. Your "Ukie girl" is obviously confused,and you are also, in regards to missionary efforts in Ukraine. Once again you speak on something you know nothing about. It is amazing that you would denigrate folks who dedicate their lives to the betterment of others. Do your words on this subject come from your spititual father or the Holy Trinity? I am not seeking a reply here. You really need to do some soul searching in regards to this question.

8. The comment about DSD was meant to get you to take a step back, take a deep breath, and get you to examine yourself - you are going way off the deep end with continous I am smarter and better than everyone else argumentation. Sorry about the reference though (I can be a smart alec too when I want to

9. You worry too much. History is going to play itself out regardless. Our responsibility is to be about the Father's business. Everything else will take care of itself.

Good luck!!

WmGOlucky(andblessed)

[LP]

... in response to Re: Ah...., posted by WmGo on Dec 6, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]

1. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

You love them, too many of the ones I know are pure a-holes. Nobody loves them and for good reason. Lol, some in MOB.

3. That shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain.

I could give a rodent's rectum and I doubt He does either.  Let me know when you're able positively verify what He thinks about anything.  

6. I was personally opposed to the Iraq invasion. I can assure you there is no blood on my hands.

Opposed? Yet still voted for W? Nice. Assure all you want, you have more blood on your hands than someone with stigmata. And you supported a guy who has broken more than a few of your precious commandments to boot. See number 4 above.

7. Once again you speak on something you know nothing about. It is amazing that you would denigrate folks who dedicate their lives to the betterment of others.

I know what she tells me. How exactly are they "bettering" her and her son's lives? By brainwashing them into giving up 10%? She doesn't need anyone to tell her how to be a good person or raise her son correctly...and neither does anyone else. If you need guidance it's becasue of number 4 above.

8. The comment about DSD was meant to get you to take a step back, take a deep breath, and get you to examine yourself - you are going way off the deep end with continous I am smarter and better than everyone else

Must be because two of my three careers are some of the most competitive known and only the best of the best make it, exhaustively tested and then  by organizations with years of experience in doing so. A bit tougher than passing the Bar me thinks, and a lot more responsibility.

9. You worry too much. History is going to play itself out regardless. Our responsibility is to be about the Father's business. Everything else will take care of itself.

I worry too much? Everything will take care of itself? Then I guess it will in Ukraine also huh? More hypocrisy. And I'll be sure to pass on that gem of wisdom to my friends. I wonder if you'd feel the same if you had buried your son or spouse. Grrr...

You're something Wm, you be turning into a real nut case. Frankly, screw you and the God you rode in on. The only thing you're blessed with tunnel vision. Hell, blindness is more like it.

[AllenB]

... in response to I don't approve....., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2004

Your education and class really show when you call people names such as moron and use profanity the way you do to complete your sentences.  I am not always correct such as my mispelled miner, excuse my imperfection, however your bitter, whining ways do not convince the thinking population.  I never made any statement that all of Ukraine wants Yushenko, justs pointing out the blatant fraud committed by a known criminal.

Read this and try to comprehend:

To the Speaker of Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine
V. M. Lytvyn

Statement of the staff of law-enforcement bodies of Kharkiv region

Dear Volodymyr Mykhaylovych,

Our duty and our conscious obliges us to address You as a representative of Supreme legislative power of Ukraine and demand that you interfere with the situation in our region on behalf of the Ukrainian nation.

1. Into Kharkiv region were brought 50% more bulletins than the whole quantity of voters of the region.

On October 30 before the elections in the executive committee of the city of Lozovaya of Kharkiv region a sealed room was unearthed in which were kept unaccounted bulletins filled in beforehand for the candidate for the post of President of Ukraine V. F. Yanukovych. This room was sealed with the seal of the executive committee and was guarded by policemen. The staff of the executive committee rejected demands of the community representatives to open the room. Eventually these bulletins were delivered to local voting commissions and were counted in during the process of calculating the election results.

In this episode the most active part was performed by: the first vice-chief of Administration of Ministry of Internal Affairs (AMIA) in Kharkiv region Z. S. Galavan and vice-chief of AMIA N. M. Khalin, the main orders were given by the chief of Kharkiv region State administration E. P. Kushnarev.

2. In passport offices forms # 1 are kept that contain personal information of every voter and lists of voters prepared by this offices were sent to the Territorial Election Commissions (TEC) and eventually were corrupted. The corruptions were made by concrete members of TEC. Tell us please, who could give such an order to the members of TEC? Who could order to publish more bulletins? Only Central Election Commission with S. Kivalov in the head.

Actually a number of crimes were committed to fake the elections results. The faking mechanism was as follows – when a mismatch was found in a record concerning a voter in the list of voters, additional lists were made where records matched data of the passport offices. But the wrong “voters” were not excluded from the main lists. Thus there were “extra” people voting for V. F. Yanukovych. Surplus of brought in bulletins let do it.

3. A huge number cadets from the University of Internal Affairs (the president of board of directors is A. M. Bandurka) was sent to the regions of Western Ukraine, each of whom had no less than 10 absentee ballots. The transportation and food costs were compensated for each cadet and a guarantee was given to them that they will “pass” the examinations without efforts. We are shocked by cynical attitude of people’s deputy A.M. Bandurka true werewolf with epaulets towards the President of Ukraine election process.

4. In the city of Dergachy in Kharikiv region, the election division of A. M. Bandurka, a local congress was gathered at which Bandurka demanded that voters vote only for V. Yanukovych, otherwise they will have neither electricity nor gas. A.M. Bandurka is capable to fulfill his threats.

5. During voting in mental hospitals and old peoples’ homes the bulletins were filled in by the members of voting commissions or medicals, who were given instructions to vote for their candidate - V. Yanukovych.

6. Right before the elections the chief of Kharkiv region State administration E. P Kushnarev gathered the chiefs of administrations of the city districts, Security Service staff and announced that if V. F.Yanukovych gets less than 60% at their territory the present chiefs are not expected at their offices the next day after the elections.

Now we consider necessary to explain the part performed by Kharkiv law-enforcement bodies during the elections:

1. According to the orders of the head of AMIA in Kharkiv region C.F.Denysyuk a group of policemen was created at basis of AMIA to prevent the election campaign of Viktor Yuschenko. The group was ordered to destroy agitation materials in stores, in cars, in publishing houses. Members of this group crashed cars near “Myr” hotel in the city of Kharkiv and also a number of cars in Kharkiv region that belonged to staff of Yuschenko’s office.

2. According to the orders of the head of AMIA an operation was performed resulting in putting an explosive devise into the car of the authorized representative of Viktor Yuschenko Y. P. Potykun by the staff of Administration of Work against Organized Crime. The explosive devise was taken away in presence of coroner’s jury. The coordinators of this provocation are the head of Administration of Work against Organized Crime Z. S. Galavan and his assistant I.I Chekotylo. As a result a criminal case was launched against an innocent citizen and order for arrest was issued. All this was performed to frighten the staff and supporters of V. Yuschenko. Where is our country if the law-enforcement authorities turned into “legal” armed gang?

3. Before voting the head of AMIA Denisyuk S.F. as well as the head of Kharkiv city police administration V.I. Dyatlov gathered the staff and in the form of order forced the police staff to vote for their candidate, with several previous convictions, V. F. Yanukovych, and forced the police staff to fill in forms with personal data, information about their relatives and no less than 15 people whom they promise to convict to vote for Yanukovych. All the forms were taken by the heads of divisions and collected in human resources departments.

4. At present in the city of Kharkiv a number of felonies are committed, among which an attack at cash messengers during which three people were murdered, car explosions etc. Despite the tasks of the law-enforcement bodies to protect the legal rights and interests of the citizens, the heads of AMIA were involved into political games. Instead of investigation of felonies the operating executives detected the dissidents with the help of the staff that was not investigating crimes but agitated for V.F. Yanukovych even by means of frightening the people.

5. During the election campaign the staff was informed not once that if they don’t vote for Yanukovych they will be fired immediately.

6. Also performing the orders of administration all operational executives organized financing of Yunukovych’s campaign and actually the operational executives were racketeering the commercial organizations; money were transferred to the funds “Law and Order”, “Shield”, “Guard”, “Slobozhanschyna”. These actions were made together with tax police.
7. We have data proving that before the elections were conducted people’s deputy V.L Shepetin organized and sent to Kyiv a group of criminals to carry out mass provocations under the guise of supporters of V. A. Yuschenko.

8. According to orders of the head of AMIA C.F.Denysyuk surveillance was established after the Verkhovna Rada deputies A. Matviyenko, V. Filenko, as well as after the heads of local offices, heads of region organizations of the opposition by the administration of criminal investigation which is performed up to now. Huge resources are taken from tax payers. What is the legal basis for prosecution of dissidents? What their actions according to what articles of criminal code demand such action?

Tell us please, Vladymyr Mykhaylovych, can we having this information name these elections “clear and honest” as observers of Union of Sovereign States claim? Actually the voters of Kharkiv region were not free to vote as it is guaranteed by the Constitution. What was the reason for Kushnaruk, Bandurka, Shepetin, Denysyuk and others to claim that “Kharkiv region is for Yanukovych”? Actually the Police was made a weapon to suppress citizens’ freedom to vote.

Unfortunately we can not openly declare our civil position at the moment without additional safety guarantees for our relatives as there is no democracy and law in Ukraine.

But at certain guarantees we are ready to confirm all the mentioned in any place in public.

Staff of the law-enforcement bodies of Kharkiv region.

[LP]

... in response to Re: I don't approve....., posted by AllenB on Nov 27, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]


...completely I see. Nor does propaganda from one side convince a thinking population, although in your case it obviously does both at home and abroad. (You have some brass ones to even say that, coming from a guy who voted four more). Nor am I saying there was no fraud, all I'm saying is from what I've read and looking at the previous two counts it wasn't significant enough to change the election. I'm also saying the US should stay out of the affairs of other countries. Nothing gives us the right to say we're going to punish Ukraine if it doesn't behave to our expectations. Even the Russians aren't doing that.

Let see what happens. If they do a revote (not a recount) it'll tell the tale. But of course (since the Ukrianian people have no faith in the process) it won't solve anything. No matter who comes out ahead the losing side won't except it and that's the real problem. And since Yushchencko's entire campaign was based on claiming the other side would cheat it'll be no surpise he'll whine some more if he loses a third time. (Which I hope he won't but thats not the point).

Funny how you consider my complaint as "whining" but not their's. At least they have enough balls to whine in a way that causes action, unlike the sheeple in the US...and especially in ORD whre they simply lay down for King Richard on a "Daley" basis. As I said, you're a hypocrite. I'm not a bad guy and I regret having to play one when dealing with idiots but it's sometimes necessary. As far as this business goes, try prying yourself away from your wife and you might be able to see more clearly.

Btw my class and education have served me well, it's why I get 24 weeks off per year. Gives me lots of time to whine...

[AllenB]

... in response to Missed the point...., posted by LP on Nov 27, 2004

You have no profile and therefore you seem to be hiding.  Your bitter attitude also makes me suspect that you are not able to hold down a job and therefore stating that you get 24 weeks off per year is a cover.

Perhaps taking your fingers off of the keyboard and assimilating into the world with humans may help?

P.S.  Don't forget to shower before leaving the house, we would all appreciate it.