I quit....

[Philb]

After 3 years and 8 trips to the FSU I am calling it quits.  This process takes a lot of time and energy and I no longer think it is worth it.  I have met some great women and people in General in the FSU and fully intend to travel there in the future, I just haven't met a woman I would want to marry.  

I am sure that there are many who will disagree with me on my next statement, but the longer I became involved in this process the more similarities I see between women in the FSU and in the USA.  This led my to ask myself "if this is true, then what is the point".

Besides, the ankle I blew out a couple of years ago seems to have finally healed up enough so that I think I still might have a couple more years of big mountain skiing left in me  ;-)

I wish everyone here the best in their pursuit and still will plan on making posts when my experience leads me to believe I have something to offer.

[LP]

... in response to I quit...., posted by Philb on Jul 2, 2004

[This message has been edited by LP]


I agree with my pal in TX: No need to go away, your insight is valued here.

Good luck if you do though, you're making a wise choice. I learned what you did long ago: The difference in these girls isn't worth it, at least not for marriage. Unless you're desperate the end just doesn't justify the hassles. I'll keep going back too for other reasons and if I meet one I like I may go for it but until then life is too good to screw up what I have now. I keep meeting ones who're nothing like the hype. Just plain women, same as everywhere else except for the poverty, bad breath, over emotional character and an inability to tell the truth if their life depended on it. Sure, they're easy on the eyes but it takes a lot more than that to win my brass ring.

I also got tired of hurting people. Breaking hearts takes it's toll and when you dangle the dream of a better life in front of these women and have to repeatably pull away the carrot it isn't easy. After all, it's what 95% of them really want and anyone who thinks it's simply about love is clueless. Also, your comment about how they will respond in a different environment is telling and mirrors my experience. They're great actresses and that alone is a turn off. Lets face it, a guy's cupboard has to be pretty bare for a long time to settle for one of these women quickly and they're the ones who're so "happy" when they do. No suprise there huh?

Besides, there are simply too many whacked out guys involved in this, I was cringing at just seeing them all the way through my last visit. It was downright embarressing at times. Witness the recent comment by a poster who states his motivation for going there was soley for a trophy. As if being able to do that was difficult. Of course, it's not if you're born to be suckered and it's all you ever write about. Such guys are an open book. What's amazing is how they feel it's a valid reason. I tell ya, to be associated with this business is to feel like a woman whose been raped: You stand in the shower for days and still can't feel clean.

[JohnG]

... in response to I quit...., posted by Philb on Jul 2, 2004

Your statement leads me to believe that you have uncovered a very important principle. People are people, no matter where they are from. Are Russian women REALLY THAT DIFFERENT from American women? Well...

All women are pains in the a**es, if you ask me. Don't care where they are from. By the same token, men will be men, both here and there. Russian women have bad moods too. They get attitudes, p**sed off, demanding, they can lie, cheat, just like their American counterparts.

So what's the big deal about Russian/Ukrainian women anyway? Why bother?

Well..................

While it's true that, fundamentally, people are people, there ARE some notable differences between American and Russian women.

Now, while I know there are always exceptions, as a generalization, for Russian women, their families and its needs come first, much more so than with their American counterparts, who are all too "me me me"-centric. Fewer Russian women will leave their husbands and break up their families because they are bored or need to seek out their lesbian side. They are less apt to become addicted to Zoloft or other mood-altering drugs. They will stay with their husbands and work it out much longer than their American counterparts; they are not so quick to throw it all away and file for divorce. They tough it out. They are hard workers and will do their best to help support their families. They understand a man's needs and are more willing to see to those needs than their headache-ridden American counterparts. But they have strong needs in that deparment too, and you better be up to the task!

Realize that searching for the right Russian/Ukranian women is EVEN MORE DIFFICULT than finding the right woman in America, due to the distance factor and the complications of getting to know them well enough. Because of the regulations imposed by our ever-increasingly brilliant Government, if you find one you "think" you like, you can bring them here and you have 3 hectic months to decide if you think you can spend the rest of your life with this stranger and risk 10 years of financial support!

My Russian wife and I will be celebrating our 3rd year together soon. My initial search consisted of LONG writing campaigns in an effort to "weed out" those I felt would not be a good match. Olga and I wrote for almost an entire year before finally meeting. But, believe me, by the time we met, we knew almost everything about each other and our separate lives, enough to know we really were good candidates for a successful relationship. Olga EXCEEDED my greatest expectaions, and I am very happy to have made the long journey to where I am today.

My final comments: if you are undertaking this momumental task, be sure you are doing so for the right reasons. Be honest and sincere and disclose everything to her. Let there be no surprises when you finally bring her here. She must know the good and the bad about you, and you of her. Be ready to give your heart and soul to her, and do everything in your power to ensure that the woman you choose is DESERVING of you!

ok, I'll shut up and go away now. ;=)

[MarkInTx]

... in response to some comments from a veteran of this boa..., posted by JohnG on Jul 9, 2004

I would echo much of what you said...

It also seems to me that when all of the Agency Hype has settled, there are just a few real differences between RWs and AWs...

As you said, you can't paint with a big brush because everyone is different...

However, if I were to come up with one word for the Russian (and Ukrainian) people I have met, it is: Stoic.

They have a tendency to accept their lot in life, and work through the day to day. Who knows why? But, this seems to have been around longer than the Soviet Union. I did some reading on Peter the Great, and the attitude of the people in HIS time was much the same...

My wife tells me that there is an old saying in Ukraine: "Why are we poor? Because we are stupid. Why are we stupid? Because we are poor..."

They just seem to accept things as they are, and work with the hand they are dealt much more than any other nationality I have encountered...

This is a very good trait (I think) for a marriage. An RW is much less likely to "cut and run" when the going gets tough...

On the other hand, these women are also survivors. Many of them have survived in conditions that would have broken us.

That is good and bad. Good, because a survivor is always a good person to have on your side -- Bad, because if she is NOT on your side, she will think nothing of using a guy to get what she wants.

If you read all of the other boards, you will find that the Latin and Asian boards have very little discussion of scammers. It seems to be something pretty unique to the Russian world.

I am convinced this is because the "Survivor" mode takes over...

So, if you find an RW who loves you, and joins you, you have indeed found gold.

But, if you find one who is just playing you... look out... because she's a lot better at it than you are...

Just read some of the horror stories...

[BrianN]

... in response to No Need to Go Away..., posted by MarkInTx on Jul 10, 2004

Well this post surely belongs in the Significant Annals of
PL history.  (Amazing there's no response to this).

You gotta smart wife.  Cherish her. (I know you do).

Noteworthy Points:
1. They just seem to accept things as they are, and work
with the hand they are dealt much more than any other
nationality I have encountered..
2.  An RW is much less likely to "cut and run" when the
going gets tough...
3.  .. these women are also survivors. Many of them have
survived in conditions that would have broken us.
4.  So, if you find an RW who loves you, and joins you,
you have indeed found gold.  

Same applies to the scammer analogy.  

You seemed to have defined the true idealogical
differences between a scammer, and a real RW looking for a
real husband.

Great post.

[Jack]

... in response to some comments from a veteran of this boa..., posted by JohnG on Jul 9, 2004

Some really good comments and thoughts.

[thesearch]

... in response to I quit...., posted by Philb on Jul 2, 2004

Phil,

Do you have any ideas on why you have not been able to succeed?

There has to be some reasons. The only question is whether they are apparent to you.

It most likely is not you as there is someone for everyone out there. It is more likely about how you approached it, what expectations etc. That would be my guess but certainly I would not know.

If you have any ideas about this, it may be very helpful for others.

Thanks in advance

[Philb]

... in response to Question, posted by thesearch on Jul 6, 2004

I guess if the sole measure of success is getting married then I have not been successful.  When I look at all the things I have been able to do, the people I have met, the places and things I have done, I feel very successful.

As far as the reasons for not meeting a woman I would want to marry I really don't think my "personal" experiences would carry over as something that would be of much help to others.

A couple of things that might be useful that I learned on my last trip follows...

We often read about how important it is to meet these women in their home towns, to see them in thier own environment meet their family , friends , etc... I agree this is important.

But equally important is seeing how they will react and adapt outside of their environment.  After all, the plan is to take them to another country to live.  I took Lena to Cyprus in May.  This allowed me to see a side of her I never would have seen in Ukraine.  It gave me window into how she would react to the USA.  Don't get the wrong idea she didn't suddenly change into a monster or anything.  These things were much more subtle.

I don't think it really matters which technique you use, wmvm, wovo, wmvo, etc...  In my case the reasons the relationships did not work out would have occured no matter what "technique" I used.  Do what ever you are most comfortable with.

Nothing takes the place of spending time with these women.  in my experience this is the only way to get to know them.  For me it was only after spending time together ( 9+ weeks over 3 trips with Lena) that alot of our differences became apparent.

Nothing ground breaking here just common sense.

[thesearch]

... in response to A few thoughts......, posted by Philb on Jul 8, 2004

It takes a while to know who a person is --- this is the great challenge of trying to find a wife in this fashion. This problem will not go away and predictably many relationships will falter when unseen differences that are significant finally surface. It is good that they surfaced for you and Lena sooner than later.

Another question, did she come to the same conclusion as you?

[Philb]

... in response to one more question, posted by thesearch on Jul 9, 2004

Unfortunately, at this point no.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to A few thoughts......, posted by Philb on Jul 8, 2004

**********
I don't think it really matters which technique you use, wmvm, wovo, wmvo, etc... In my case the reasons the relationships did not work out would have occured no matter what "technique" I used. Do what ever you are most comfortable with.
************************

I would agree with that... all "methods" or "techniques" simply introduce you to someone that you want to get to know better... after that, it is all Providence...

That's why it drives me crazy to see guys who find someone really great, and then it doesn't work out, and you will hear them say: "Well, I WOVO'd last time, and crashed and burned, so I guess I won't do that again!"

Listen, finding someone you connect with -- anywhere in the world -- is magic. If you find it, and it doens't work out... well, it doesn't work out...

No need to blame the method...

[Yorkman]

... in response to I quit...., posted by Philb on Jul 2, 2004

Sorry to hear of your run of bad luck.
Best to you in future.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to I quit...., posted by Philb on Jul 2, 2004

Well, FWIW, as time goes on, there is less and less of a difference between the two, I agree...

Sorry to hear things didn't work out.

But you should -- at the very least -- take some time off, and go skiing...

When it ceases to be fun, there is no sense in doing it...

[wsbill]

... in response to I quit...., posted by Philb on Jul 2, 2004

Do yo demand a sexy eye candy girl or one that's going to love you until the end of time.  The girls in the contry side are not exposed to big city life.  Think it over and start looking toward the Donestki region.  I noticed AFA is starting to have tours that direction which means to me:

There are still some decent girls out there.  Hey, you really should contact Frank and take a look at some of his wifes girl friends.

You know the saying, some of the best marriage partners were established through friends.

I've never met Frank or you... but can't hurt one more try.

[MarkInTx]

... in response to Re:  Read Frank post..., posted by wsbill on Jul 2, 2004

Hmmm...

And when exactly are you planning on making one more try, there Bill?

You've been over... what... once? started a K-1, then stopped?

Seems funny hearing that advice coming from you...

::: shrugs :::