Notes from a 7 year marriage to RW

[Ukrainelover]

Here is some update on my 7 year marriage to FSU. I am posting this hoping it might give a glimpse into future for the newcomer into this FSU venture. My case scenario probably may not be typical. Here is the link to my initial story from the archive 2 years ago:

http://www.planet-love.com/wwwboard/search/searchdisplay.php?page=russian&archive=000201&id=80669&bold[]=ukrainelover

By 5 years the Americanization has set in already. The distinction between AW & RW is becoming hazy. I remember when I set out on this venture, I wanted a homely wife- someone who would be more of a homemaker than a career women. My wife did mention that she has desire to work when we first met, so I knew it coming but never thought about the details. According to her, the Russian view is “everybody works. If you don’t work you are useless”. After she got a Masters in computer science it would be a shame to waste it off. When she started working first I was trying to hint that she might do part-time or be an independent consultant. Now she is stuck with a full time job. She goes off at 6AM and is back like 6.30 PM since there is an hour of driving each way to work. And she loves her job and the work-atmosphere. I wish I could say that for my job. She got a job as a Founding member of a new startup company and she is having a ball. When once I bought up the topic of “I hardly get to see you these days”, her response was “Looks like you re jealous of me working”.

I have seen many posts about how frugal RW are. Well she was frugal when she came first to US but now she loves to spend money. Not my money though since she is making decent amount and I don’t ask her to chip in. Her way of justifying the spending is “you take care of the necessities of our life and I take care of the luxury stuff”. She is the one who is sponsoring our international travels and expensive restaurant outings. Once in a while when I see her going overboard with the spending, I gently remind her, “ You never let us go to any restaurants when I used to come to Ukraine. Do you remember the great fun we had on $3/day rented house by the black sea”.

Assertiveness or talking smart has been a problem and something I always dreaded and has come to haunt me. From what I understand, Ukraine is a female dominated country. At least that is what me wife has described it to me. Men are more puppet heads and the female run the show. She had once mentioned it “men is the head of the family but the female is the neck which can turn the head where she wants”! I remember a scene she created when we applied for visa to travel to one of the Asian countries. Somehow, they misplaced her passport when she went to pick it up and they wanted her to come the next day. She created a big scene and threatened to sue them and would not leave the consulate without her passport. The whole consulate staff had to look for the passport almost one hour after their closing time till they found it!

Outburst of anger or short temper nature sometimes gets on my nerves. I think this is more of a Russian character. Russians can be extremely nice and friendly but when you become close, the reverse is also true - more like the internet stocks trends. Very volatile. I remember an instance when were in train in Ukraine (we had a compartment with 4 seats). Her mom was there too. The forth seat was for a Russian businessman. Something went wrong. I believe we were using his shirt hanger slot or something trivial. There was shouting and screaming going on. That Russian guy was threatening to kill her mom. I think he was little bit drunk too. I was getting scared. The folks from the neighboring compartment came and told that guy, “Why are you behaving like this in front of these Americans”. Suddenly that Russian businessman’s attitude changed. He was so apologetic the whole journey. He was offering us drink, food and even invited us to his place. Soon I see my wife and her mom laughing and joking as if nothing had happened. In Ukraine most folks travel well dressed, unlike in America where people dress casually. My wife was dressed in T-shirt now that she is Americanized. She looked like an ordinary village girl to that businessman. It was fun to see that guy’s expression when she showed him her US passport.

My wife, even though she works full time- does the cooking , laundry, cleaning of the house. I never had to do a dish in the last 7 years. I am glad I was up-front when I met her first and told her honestly what I like and don’t like. Also she likes her house-hold responsibilities. She loves to cook. In fact we hardly eat any Ukrainian food. It has been ages since I ate Ukrainian food. And she loves to drive. All our cross country trip- she drives solo and never got a ticket so far. I am planning to get a motor-home soon.

Over all it is a satisfying marriage and I have no regrets. We have our ups and downs like any marriage but it usually gets resolved by bedtime. If I have to do it again, I will marry a RW.

[Frank O]

... in response to Notes from a 7 year marriage to RW, posted by Ukrainelover on Jun 3, 2004

Just kidding. My wife should be over here soon & I too am afraid of WHEN Americanization will set in. Honestly I'm thinking of perhaps moving to Ukraine in 10 years. I own real estate & am thinking of investing in stock...well anyways I want to play it safe & "retire" to live in the Ukraine. I honestly do love that country. We would be living in a SMALL town so it's not like living in Kiev. I'm just wondering if perhaps my wife will NOT want to move. Then again she will be living in HOT SOUTH TEXAS so she might not like it that much.

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to Your'e scaring me man!!!, posted by Frank O on Jun 5, 2004

If you really want to live in Ukraine, make the decision before she steps foot on the US soil. Discuss it and make it as the future plan well ahead of time so that she will have the mind-set this is not going to be future country.

Even I used to share the same view about living in Ukraine. I thought with the money from US, one can live like a King in a small town there. But my wife warned me long time ago (when she herself was missing Ukraine) about the Mafia and the crime since you will be considered rich and could be target of crime. As you already know the economy is in a bad shape.

[tbirdjoy]

... in response to Your'e scaring me man!!!, posted by Frank O on Jun 5, 2004

My wife does not want to live at all in the future in her mother country of Ukraine, and she is from the Crimea which is a very pretty part of Ukraine.  I really think it depends on the personality of the woman.  My wife wants to become a US citizen and she tells everyone here and back home that the US is her new country now. She loves the people and she loves So. California.  She reads this Board and she has assured me that she will never "Americanize" in the negative way.  She loves dressing for me the way she did in Ukraine, and I send her home each year so that she can shop for those sexy/stylish European clothes that she prefers over our more conservative and less interesting American clothes.  She loves that she looks so different from her AW conterparts and with her personality I know she'll always keep her Ukrainian roots in those areas that all of us guys fell in love with when we were over there. So it just really depends on the woman.  Good luck with yours and by the way Angelica loves the heat and I'm sure she'd be quite content with that Texas heat....although she is terrified of tornados and hurricanes.

Mark

[Frank O]

... in response to Re: Your'e scaring me man!!!, posted by tbirdjoy on Jun 6, 2004

Thanks for that info. I think I"ll print some of these out to show to my wife.

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to Re: Your'e scaring me man!!!, posted by tbirdjoy on Jun 6, 2004

Wanting to live in USA and giving up on Ukraine is one of the first signs of Americanization. When my wife first came here she literally hated US. She was home-sick. She missed her friend there in Ukraine. She reluctantly became US citizen after 3 years mainly because it helped to travel easily with the US passport. By 5 years she started liking it here. She is now eager to vote and have strong political views too. Now she can’t image ever going back to Ukraine. She loves this country- the supermarket, the food, etc.

The major change came after she got her job. Ironically she was not even looking for a job. She was siting in the library for her finals in her Masters in CS, when she got her job interview. Apparently the guys from this new company went to the principal and wanted to know who is the best brains in the school and they found her!

She still retains her old Ukrainian nature- yes the dressing up, love for cooking, etc.

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Notes from a 7 year marriage to RW, posted by Ukrainelover on Jun 3, 2004

“everybody works. If you don’t work you are useless”

I am an engineer that lost his job and has chosen not to continue working yet but I'm already so wealthy it doesn't matter much if I do work.  I can't get an engineering job anyway.  I don't think a single girl that I wrote believes that I am able to not work at my age.  The girl that writes me regularly didn't seem to understand what I wrote so I never bring it up.  Of course, I don't know what the response rate would be if I did have a good job anyway.  I could be 10th on their preference list.  Or it could be they respond to the guy that promises them a European vacation.  I guess I'll see how this girl works out later in the summer.  After working for so long it is driving me crazy not to work.

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to That explains a lot, posted by BubbaGump on Jun 5, 2004

BubbaGump;

Former soviet union being a communist country, everybody works. I was told if you don’t work, the government will find you a job (guaranteed) - even ask you to go a sweep the road. My wife used to tell me, they sometimes even imprison recalcitrant ones. Once you live your whole life in such setup, it becomes natural to want to work. My wife, the other day was telling me how she has been stuck to the Russian stereotypical thinking and she is now slowing changing her mentality. Her granny who was a physician, after she retired used to work as a cleaner in the same clinic she used to work as a physician. The dignity of labor is different there. How many US physicians (me being one) wants to sweep and mop for pittance after they retire:-)

[BubbaGump]

... in response to Re: That explains a lot, posted by Ukrainelover on Jun 5, 2004

I thought they had to work hard to just survive over there.  It's not like they have plenty of high paying jobs.  I also thought a lot of the guys over there could not find work now that communism was gone and that's why these women aren't finding husbands.  

I cannot overcome their stereotypical thinking either.  I'm one of those older laid off professional types that the US has plenty of now.  If you go from over $100k to unemployment, the low paying jobs don't seem worth doing.  As one of my friends said: Do you want a young kid bossing you around when you know you don't have to put up with that?  He had a point.  The only reason to do a job is to get out of the house to someplace other than the gym, the store or the golf course.  I don't think russian girls can fathom a person having so much money that 85% of the jobs don't matter compared to what that money can earn or what you can lose.  The jobs that would matter, I can't get.  There's lots of engineers out of work and I'm not qualified for the other jobs that pay well.  I'm just glad I'm not one of those guys in desperate straights.  I was looking at new cars the other day and the car salesmen were laid off from my company.  They never got decent jobs again either.

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to Re: Re: That explains a lot, posted by BubbaGump on Jun 6, 2004

I was talking about the job scenario before the fall of the USSR. Yes, of course the unemployment is on the rise there now. What I meant was they were bought up in that era of “having to work” attitude. It still stays with them now.

[gator70]

... in response to Notes from a 7 year marriage to RW, posted by Ukrainelover on Jun 3, 2004

I had the exact same experience. After seven years it is over. Time to re-tool!

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to Re: Notes from a 7 year marriage to RW, posted by gator70 on Jun 3, 2004

Gator70;

Interesting to hear that you had similar experience. I wish you could elaborate with some details since it could help others in preventing mistakes.

In my case, even though I kinda presented it in a negative manner, we love each other and I have no intension in ending it. She had adjusted for me a lot.

The best part of this FSU venture is the process of finding the dream girl. That is the most exciting part. That is what few of my friends who went through this process said too. After marriage the honeymoon phase lasts maybe months to years depending on the individual.

If someone asked me as to what did I learn from this process and the mistakes I wouldn’t repeat, here are some:
- Be honest from the start and tell them all your problems, disadvantages, quirks, etc.. If you are planning for a long term relationship, it is better they know it upfront. If the lady loses interest because of this, move on since the choice of ladies available in large. I did this and I am glad when I look back. My wife loved me for what I am. Lot of folks try to impress and show off to the lady. That method is fine if your intension is to have fun for a short term and move on.

- OBSERVE THE PARENTS. They represent how she might be later on. I picked up short temper nature in them when I used to live with them but my wife was not like that in Ukraine. This is the mistake I made. I picked up this signal but ignored it. Always live with the girl at their house rather than in a hotel. This will give an opportunity to see her in the natural environment. Everyone tries to behave nice and formal in an outside setup.

[gator70]

... in response to Re: Re: Notes from a 7 year marriage to ..., posted by Ukrainelover on Jun 4, 2004

Tips:

FSU ladies expect men to earn 70% of the household wage. They will understand but not respect their partner who does not. Do not pick a woman who can earn a great deal of money in the USA with her profession.

Rule of thumb is 30-40%. Mine earned 48% and she was not satisfied.

Watch the parents. Look for unhappiness among the family tree.

If possible do not marry a single child.

[Ukrainelover]

... in response to Re: Re: Re: Notes from a 7 year marriage..., posted by gator70 on Jun 4, 2004

That is a valid point about the income percentage. Never thought about that. In my case it will take a while for my wife to catch up with me or probably will never reach that stage. In my wife case I paid for her college all the way to Masters degree here in US, as part of her only request she had when we met.

About the problems of single child, it is very true. Psychologists have found that single child and youngest child are problematic since they are selfish and have lesser ability to share and adjust. Unfortunately in my case it is the worst scenario since me and my wife are only child! I was aware of this when I met her, but I ignored it.

One other factor when I look back is the language skills. In my wife’s case her skills was excellent- got A grade starting with her first exam in English and astonished her American classmates in her grammar skills. Sometimes, I believe a lady who hardly speaks English is a blessing in disguise since the Americanization process will be longer!

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Re: Notes from a 7 year marriage to ..., posted by Ukrainelover on Jun 4, 2004

Thanks for your 7 year observations.  Even for the most discerning man,  one never does know just what the years may hold when one marries a woman from anywhere.  Some marry a mirage only to find the shifting sands they really stand on.  People change.  I believe cultural assimilations can occur quite rapidly here and I have met many originally from St. Pete and Moscow here for a few years who have assimilated into our culture. Indded,  embrace it.