Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . .

[Dan]

But I thought you guys (and gals) might like to see some photos taken a short time back in early December - at this link -- http://photos.yahoo.com/icpilot.

We just returned from a 2-month stay in Ukraine that was quite productive - both personally and professionally.

Things are changing VERY rapidly now as Ukraine is on the border of the EU and pushing for admission herself. Real estate prices, especially, have skyrocketed in the past 2 to 3 years. If you read and write Russian, you can now order groceries to be delivered, online from MegaMarket (www.megamarket.com.ua). So many other changes it is difficult to recount them all.

That's all for now.

- Dan

[Streetwise]

... in response to Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 15, 2004

No way can the situation in a major city reflect the general living conditions of the population of the country.
I have seen it many times, that the outward signs of prosperity become quickly visible in the capital whilst the rest of the country remains stagnant. That was my impression in Ukraine, and also in Latvia (the centre of Riga is more or less on par with the average Western European city for facilities and amenities, whilst its residential outskirts, and the other towns, are mainly "slums" by western standards.) Maybe it's because the capital attracts most of the foreign investment, tourism and other spin-off benefits, and until enough westerners have the balls and the vision to probe deeper into the country, that's how it stays? Just a theory.

[wsbill]

... in response to Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 15, 2004

Because of all the properity ?  
Actually, I saw this properity back in 2001.

Just like someone else pointed out, it's turning into a big city which attracts wealth and grows wealth thus everyones standard of living is going to go up.

I guess these folks deserve it since they've lived through some tough times in the past and have weather the storm of economical collapse and are now or soon to be enjoying the fruits of their labor or preserverance.

Course, this properity is on the terms of european standards and not North American, it'll day decades before the people can trust the politicans...like we trust ours right now (LOL)!!

[KenC]

... in response to Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 15, 2004

n/t

[JH]

... in response to Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 15, 2004

It is true some things are better in Ukraine, but having lived here a few years now I see some things are worse.

It is true real estate is up, as is food, clothing etc. The people I know here in Crimea make the exact same as 3 years ago, there is more desperation as well. Trash on the street, damage to monuments and parks is way up, as is gerneral crime. Most of the people view the situation as being worse than ever.

But it is cool to order food on the net in Kiev, too bad the prosparity is not everywhere.

[Dan]

... in response to Re: Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . .Not a..., posted by JH on Feb 16, 2004

I didn't make it to Crimea this trip, but I did spend significant time in Kremenchug and Lviv. Sure, there is significant disparity between "prosperity" (if you can call it that) it Kyiv and the outlying cities. That disparity seemed less obvious in Lviv than it was in Kremenchug - so I suspect it is dependent on the nature and size of the city and whether or not they have solid activities to support their local economy.

I wonder though - do you suppose it is any different in Czech Republic or Poland? I seem to see far more "prosperity" demonstrated in Warsaw and Prague than in outlying communities. For that matter, the same could be said about America. Major cities seem to be where most of the wealthy reside (resort cities like Aspen excepted).

I certainly don't mean to make light of the struggles for many in Ukraine. I see them up close in my family and friends that do not live in major cities, and I know they are real. Still, having spent significant time in Ukraine since 1998, and conducting business there, I surely see some changes that are in a positive direction. Maybe I just look for those - who knows.

- Dan

[nautilus]

... in response to Disparity . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 16, 2004

The case of a higher level of life in capitals versus provincial cities is true in most of the world, especially so in Eastern Europe.  My family for example owns several businesses in Moscow and recently opened a new store in Volgograd.  Just for comparison purposes: a position which pays $600 in Moscow (and it is rather difficult to find a qualified person for it for this money) pays $200 in Volgograd, and there was a huge contest for the available positions.  Moscow and most of the rest of Russia is like two separate countries, and based on what I know about contemporary Ukraine, I am sure the same is true of Kiev and Ukraine as well.

[John F]

... in response to Disparity . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 16, 2004

A couple years ago I was discussing Ukraine's economy with my wife.  I told her that Crimea was a beautiful place and had a lot to offer the world as a tourist destination.  That all they had to do was build some modern hotels, arrange some decent airline connections to make it easy to get to, and teach the locals to develop a service oriented attitude.  I told her they would soon have all the money they wanted and a much better lifestyle.  Her response was that they already had a lot of tourists in Crimea so that couldn't be true.  I asked where these tourists come from and she said most came from other parts of Ukraine, some from Russia, and a few from other parts of Europe.

I then took some change out of my pocket and arranged them in small piles, identifying one of the piles of coins as Ukraine and the others with a different country name.  Then I showed her how if most of the tourists came from other parts of Ukraine that the country as a whole gained very little additional money, they only moved around what they already had.  I explained that if the center of government was Kiev then most of the money found its way to Kiev via taxes and service charges but the rest of the country remained poor.  Then I began to pull coins out of the "America" pile, The "Japan" pile, the "England" pile and put it into the "Ukraine" pile.  I explained this is what would happen if they were to become more accomodating to tourists from all over the world, and since there would be more money in the country left by tourists from those countries not just Ukraine, that more would stay in Crimea and the other outlying areas.  She asked if I would make the same presentation to Kuchma.

Guys, I think this is all you're seeing.  A rearrangment of existing funds to the central point - Kiev, not the country as a whole improving their lot.

[WmGo]

... in response to Re: Disparity . . ., posted by John F on Feb 16, 2004

You hit the nail on the head.

[wsbill]

... in response to Re: Disparity . . ., posted by John F on Feb 16, 2004

Smart wife. lol.

[AJ277]

... in response to Re: Your wife has a point... contact Kuc..., posted by wsbill on Feb 16, 2004

Kuchma? and what would he do? laugh?
that someone noticed the "end game"?

I haredly think he would try and change it,
not likely in his best financial or physical interest.  

In a country where paying a "roof" is the norm and considered just a tax for doing most any business..
where the mafia are firmly entrenched and are the
"insurance underwriters"  for most every business and venture.,,
and the "Barush money funnel" leads directly back to the Government officials in Kyiv-

who could expect much different? LOL

[tim360z]

... in response to Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 15, 2004

Nice to see...and hear things are all going well for you.  Boy,  thats a big family.  The kids must keep you on your toes, everyday. Cheers, Tim

[Del]

... in response to Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 15, 2004

Nice pics Dan. Glad to hear everything is going well.

[Cold Warrior]

... in response to Photos - Won't Be Up Long . . ., posted by Dan on Feb 15, 2004

Nice family pics Dan. You can give us the lowdown on the latest progress in the UKR when you've got some time.