Trip Report 2

[Streetwise]

3 meetings so far in Kiev, each of whom were every bit as appealing as their photos (that is a pleasant change!) And the agencies I have been dealing with (Athena and Kiev Connections) have been great. Just to underline the significance of my earlier comment about "catching the early bird," one of the ladies has already withdrawn her profile after just one week due to being inumdated by emails and phone calls at all times of night. But she's willing to keep things going with me. It's nice to know that the girl you are liaising with is no longer available on the agency scene. Better to stick with the recent profiles!

Am debating a possible flight to Simferopol tomorrow (for just 1 night) to meet a long-term correspondent. 60 USD each way. But as always on these trips it's necessary to review your priorities as you go along. Risking one's life on an Antonov 24 to Crimea for one girl, when things are looking quite good here in Kiev? Decisions, decisions!

[wsbill]

... in response to Trip Report 2, posted by Streetwise on Nov 22, 2003

Give us some insight on the ones that just didn't light your fire?  Or just point'em out from the websites.

[Streetwise]

... in response to Re: Can you show us their profiles and , posted by wsbill on Nov 22, 2003

Wsbill, I believe it would be unfair of me to prejudice a girl's chances of finding someone else, just because she did not float my boat. But the truth is, two of my three meetings in Kiev have met my expectations (the other was still very pretty and charming but did not quite match her photos.) I will meet the first two again, and will make a decision this afternoon depending on the result, whether to go to Simferopol for No.4 also.

Here is a question for the members: one of these ladies is clearly from a relatively wealthy background, she has taken vacations in various countries (usually with parents who are wealthy professional people), she has a car, she dresses well, and she is about to spend 3 months in Germany as part of her German language studies. She does not sound like the type who will be easy to please! Has anyone else had dealings with girls from the more priviliged sector of Ukrainian society, and if so, what was your experience? I have a preconception that Ukrainians plus Wealth equals Trouble!

[jrm]

... in response to That; would not be cricket..., posted by Streetwise on Nov 23, 2003

Moving her from one country to another will only increase  the "level" of maintenance. And believe me, you won't like it!

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to That; would not be cricket..., posted by Streetwise on Nov 23, 2003

Once a woman is used to a certain lifestyle they have increased expectations.  Although I have never experienced a "rich" girl from Ukraine, I do not see much difference between this girl and any other "rich" girl you have dated in the past.  In my experience, they just expect everything to be first class all the time.  You really think you can take a girl like that fishing, hiking or camping?  Usually, the answer is no - but play it by ear.  She may be all that.

[europete]

... in response to My advice is to be careful on that one, posted by Bobby Orr on Nov 23, 2003

I have found that many Ukrainian women have not had much in their life, and when the opportunity arises to have someone who can get them material goods they have missed out on but wished for, they do want them and lots of them.

[KenB]

... in response to My advice is to be careful on that one, posted by Bobby Orr on Nov 23, 2003

I have to agree. Women who are used to a certain lifestyle expect to maintain at least the status-quo and hopefully advance.

[Haroshij]

... in response to Re: My advice is to be careful on that o..., posted by KenB on Nov 23, 2003

Will it be difficult for you guys to live up to ecpectations like that?  Maybe I don't understand you, but to me it lookes like you are looking for a poor girl that won't protest to live a miserable life in America?

When I met my Elena, she belonged to the new Russian middle class. She could afford to travel abroad and frequently traveled to the Mediterranean countries. The same did her friends. They had good datcha's and lived  comfortable lives in Russia. Of course she had some expectations about her future life with me. I doubt it she would have wanted to marry a poor American guy who was looking for girl without demands.

Haroshij

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Re: Re: My advice is to be careful on th..., posted by Haroshij on Nov 23, 2003

We may or may not have plenty of money.  That is not the point.  The point is a girl's character.  I think most men are looking for a girl who loves the guy for the guy, not what he can buy her.

[Haroshij]

... in response to You just do not understand, posted by Bobby Orr on Nov 23, 2003

Well, maybe it's you that don't see the facts. Why don't American men go to Scandinavia to find a girl. There are a lot of tall, blond girls with blue eyes here. They are, however used to a very high standard of living. Why are you all looking for a girl in poor countries. Do you believe the girl are spoiling her character if she can afford a standard of living that is close to that in the western  world? Of course we all want to find a girl that loves us, but if you close your eyes for the fact that they don't  want to leave their homeland to live the same miserable life in their new country, you make a serious mistake. If you don't have a good economy, this enterprise is not for you.

Haroshij

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Maybe you are dreaming, posted by Haroshij on Nov 24, 2003

So, you are saying none of the girls from the FSU like Western guys at all?  The only thing these girls care about is getting to a better economic situation no matter what?  I know you are mistaken if you believe that to be the case.  Sure economics is a factor, but it is just one of the factors for the girls.  

Guys go to the FSU for many reasons, in part because it is a numbers game.  There simply are more eligible girls. Guys can meet a younger, prettier more traditional girl who will love them for them if they play their cards right.  There are plenty of married guys on this board who will agree with me.  

Of course the economic situation of the country is a factor when guys go over to look for girls.  The worse the economy the more girls will want to do something radical ie. move out of their homeland.  In some of these smaller cities in the FSU the choice for the girl is to marry someone close to her age and be divorced with a child within a year or two, or find a 45 year old rich (by whatever means) Russian man with a family to be one of his girlfriends on the side.  They know the reality.  They can also stay alone - which is an option many of them take.

At the same time, guys from the West are not poor guys.  These are not guys looking to take a girl out and chain her to a post in the back of their trailer.  If you think this again you are mistaken.  Now, if a guy from the West is looking to go to Russia to take out a girl for the sole reason that her economy is so bad that she will go out with him, with no regard for her character or intentions (vice versa as well), in my opinion the guy is crazy.

[Haroshij]

... in response to Everything counts, posted by Bobby Orr on Nov 24, 2003

OK Bobby,
You put your words into my mouth. I never said FSU girls would never like western men. I wrote my comments because I read that it  was a disadvantage for a girl to have a good economy because she then would expect a higher standard of living. Therefore it would be better to find a poor girl. I only draw the conclusions from this way of thinking.

This said, I mainly agree with you. However, don't you think some western men try to exploit the situation with poverty in some countries to find someone they would never have a chance to find in their own country. How easy is it for an average man with an average income in the US to find a beautiful girl 15 or 20 years younger? How many of those involved in this endevour are trying that?

Haroshij

[tim360z]

... in response to Re: Everything counts, posted by Haroshij on Nov 24, 2003

there is an arising "middle class" in Russia,  in particuliar in the cities of Moscow and St. Petersburg.  The few I know,  have made this leap through the marketability of their educations and by the private sector willing to pay them well for their skills. They are extremely well educated and having very fluent English is just one affect of this.  In these cities,  the companies will pay them well.  Even to send them,  and pay them,  on a part time basis, to university classes to make them more valuable to the company.  Out in the hinterlands this is not the case.  

However,  Harosij and Bobby,  to pre-suppose that women are not interested in the quality of the feathers which comprise their nest...would be illogical.  "Love"?  Since the early days of our species, women are concerned with the quality of their mate.  Is he good in the hunt?  Did he bring back meat with his tribesmen?  Can he provide for her?  And for their future off-spring?  What is his status in his grouping?  Can he feed her and their progeny?  Get a prefered spot in the cave?  Can she have a warm fur coat?  Maybe a Lexus?

Over the eons many things have changed...but usually the female species will prefer the best provider and he is the one who wins her "love".  You may debate this all year.  But,  females always prefer the good provider.  Its just all in the DNA for the survival of the species.  We are a very comparative species.

[Bobby Orr]

... in response to Re: Everything counts, posted by Haroshij on Nov 24, 2003

What is your point?

[Haroshij]

... in response to We could go around and around, posted by Bobby Orr on Nov 24, 2003

In your reply to Streewise you wrote:
-Once a woman is used to a certain lifestyle they have increased expectations.

All the other men who replied had similar answeres. My point is that I don't understand why so many of you are afraid for a woman who has some expectations of life?
Haven't you and all of us some expectations of our lives? I don't understand the point that you need to find a poor girl to be able to live up to her expectations. Are the situation so bad in the US now that you are afraid of a girl who  likes to travel abroad now and then on vacations?

Haroshij